Going To Law School

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Can one do okay at a decent law school on a sixty-hour workweek? Sixty-five?

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Sunday, 12 June 2005 23:04 (eighteen years ago) link

Can one do okay at a decent law school on a sixty-hour workweek? Sixty-five?

no.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Sunday, 12 June 2005 23:20 (eighteen years ago) link

ok my gpa is like a 3.54. i want to work in a think tank.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Sunday, 12 June 2005 23:35 (eighteen years ago) link

if you kick ass on the LSATs (basically, get a 170 or better), then i think that you have at least a 50/50 chance of getting into a top law school. maybe not harvard or yale, but possibly somewhere like penn or georgetown.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 00:11 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm in second year law school. my midyear exams (i have four this semester) start tomorrow. all i can say to you right now is RUN WHILE YOU STILL CAN.

gem (trisk), Monday, 13 June 2005 00:22 (eighteen years ago) link

Gem I feel you, law exams suck.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 June 2005 01:07 (eighteen years ago) link

your list seems to be missing finkelstein and partners, 1-800-LAW-AMPM, your law firm working for you

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Monday, 13 June 2005 01:07 (eighteen years ago) link

now that he is out of law school, my husband recommends it for everyone. Maybe he is just mean though.

teeny (teeny), Monday, 13 June 2005 01:31 (eighteen years ago) link

yer husband is the total opposite of me, then, teeny -- i would recommend law school for NO-ONE. except people that i hate.

Eisbär (llamasfur), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:11 (eighteen years ago) link

oh come on, law school is fun!

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:23 (eighteen years ago) link

let's learn stuff that has NOTHING to do with being able to practice law!

cutty (mcutt), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:23 (eighteen years ago) link

"now that he is out of law school, my husband recommends it for everyone. Maybe he is just mean though."

This is like when you run a marathon, and the rush of endorphins that come from the pain having stopped make you feel so good that you erroneously assume it was the running itself that produced this feeling, and suddenly you think, "you know, long distance running is rather good isn't it?" Conveniently forgetting that your thoughts two minutes prior were "fuck shit fuck shit fuck shit fuck shit fuck shit..."

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:39 (eighteen years ago) link

I seem to have missed this, so are you interested in becoming a lawyer, Tim? I get this image of you arguing cases via a combination of grime white labels and references to Baudrillard.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:41 (eighteen years ago) link

i will teach you TEH LAW

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:45 (eighteen years ago) link

whatever i said before, probably. big investment. not necessarily (but could be) a good general degree as a matter of substance, but is probably more so as a matter of process. will probably require actually being a lawyer for a few years, if you don't want to be really poor. you should investigate that first. you may find that people in law school suck. you may not. requires a lot of hard work if you want to do respectably. being smart helps a bit, but only a bit. a math background might serve you well in the analytic work, which is a big part of it, but consider that a lot of lawyering work requires good reading, writing, speaking and people skills. it can lead to a rewarding career in which you face a constant stream of problem-solving and semi-intellectual puzzles and competition with language, but all of these things might not be enough if you don't like the actual substance/people/milieu.

have you considered an MPA degree? their utility is more debatable, but they might be more on point for thinktank work. in that world, it helps to specialize narrowly, i would imagine.

gabbneb (gabbneb), Monday, 13 June 2005 02:53 (eighteen years ago) link

Can one do okay at a decent law school on a sixty-hour workweek? Sixty-five?
-- Gravel Puzzleworth (mostlyconnec...), June 13th, 2005.

Are you asking if you can work 60-65 hours a week AND go to law school? Then no, definitelty. Are you asking if 60-65 hours is enough time to put in AT law school per week, I would say it's more than enough. I went to a decent law school, an I would say I averaged about 40 hours a week. You learn to be more efficient as you go. The first year you spend more time, and of course there are times during the semester when you really have to ramp up, but generally, I found that 40-50 hours was plenty. But this was an American law school. ( I also knew people that did night school and worked 50 hours a week and seemed OK, but I wouldn't choose to do that).

My advice to anyone thinking about going to law school: If you are going because you want to be a lawyer, then definitely do it. If you are just going because you are a smart person, and you want a good career, don't go. For people that don't have a strong desire to actually BE a lawyer, I've found that law school, and, even more so, practicing law, are a miserable experience.

Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 13 June 2005 03:01 (eighteen years ago) link

i reckon i probably spend a good 45-50 hours a week combined classtime/study time. plus i work about 25 hours a week at the moment. i'm pretty much tired all the time and have not much social life. i get quite good marks though and i've made awesome friends here, also i kinda feel like i fit in for the very first time in my entire life (this feels weird but in a good way). my point? ummmm only do it if you really really want to be a lawyer (i do) and are able to make a really good commitment to it. otherwise it will suck balls in the worst kind of way.

gem (trisk), Monday, 13 June 2005 08:40 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha ha law is nothing like that in Australia. I don't really study except in the month before exams. But law exams are still teh suck - or, wait, maybe it's me!

"I seem to have missed this, so are you interested in becoming a lawyer, Tim? I get this image of you arguing cases via a combination of grime white labels and references to Baudrillard. "

Yeah I haven't really decided yet. Since the beginning of the year I've been working about two and a half days a week in a a managerial paralagal position at a large plaintiff law firm, and this partial step towards, like, a real job has made me more relaxed about doing further postgrad study (in humanities) and just seeing what happens.

I'm not adverse to law, but it's hard to see myself doing it all the time I guess.

It scared me to realise recently that I was in my sixth year of uni - which I went to straight from school. I've been studying forever!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 June 2005 13:07 (eighteen years ago) link

Administrative Law exam on Thursday morning - wish me good luck!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 June 2005 13:10 (eighteen years ago) link

i have my administrative law exam tomorrow so i guess i win. 3 hours, closed book, worth 100%. at uwa. ummm interestingly that is in australia. maybe i'm just not as smart as you. also i'm doing the grad degree which is a heavier load at my uni anyways. this is my 9th year of uni.

gem (trisk), Monday, 13 June 2005 13:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Ha ha maybe you get better marks than me!! But yeah grad programs are supposed to be harder aren't they (I'd forgotten you were in Oz Gem).

Closed book, that's way harsh. Otherwise, yeah, 3 hours & 100% is where it's at.

Best of luck Gem!! Admin's a bit of a bitch isn't it? Privative clauses, jurisdictional error, procedural fairness, improper purposes...

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Monday, 13 June 2005 13:19 (eighteen years ago) link

Are you asking if you can work 60-65 hours a week AND go to law school? Then no, definitelty. Are you asking if 60-65 hours is enough time to put in AT law school per week, I would say it's more than enough.

Yeah I meant 60/65 of working on law stuff! That's a big relief, thanks.

Lawyers are helpful on this thread!

Gravel Puzzleworth (Gregory Henry), Monday, 13 June 2005 15:22 (eighteen years ago) link

3 hours and a 100% is a bitch. good luck gem & tim!

I can of course gloat because I've finished all my exams but I might get a kick in the rear, near the end of summer if I find out I failed my evidence exam, studying for I forewent, in order to watch "love & death" with alba, ally c, RJG, & beer set about studiously and efficiently.

cozen (Cozen), Monday, 13 June 2005 15:31 (eighteen years ago) link

what a graceless sentence.

cozen (Cozen), Monday, 13 June 2005 15:33 (eighteen years ago) link

There are many more in your future.

something about a tarantula coming out of a coconut (deangulberry), Monday, 13 June 2005 15:35 (eighteen years ago) link

haha!

cozen (Cozen), Monday, 13 June 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link

it wasn't too bad. my hand is about to fall off i think. and privative clauses and error of law on the face of the record ended up being dot points. but i reckon i probably went ok. it was kind of a relief to have closed book in a way as i didn't get caught up frantically searching through notes for stuff. phew! glad it's over. i have environment law on thursday though, back into it. good luck for yours tim!

gem (trisk), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 04:44 (eighteen years ago) link

"and privative clauses and error of law on the face of the record ended up being dot points."

I think this is the way it's supposed to be - it's almost always gonna be a bit of a trivial technical point anyway yeah?

Glad it all went okay - snatch an hour to yourself tonight!

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 04:55 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah totally, the whole question on jurisdictional error/elfr/privative clauses was only worth 20% of the exam. and i got down the stuff about craig and it only being binding on tribunals bla bla so hopefully it'll be ok. i went straight from the exam to the tav for a beer. now i'd like a snooze, might have to put my head down on my desk like a proper little nerd. hehe.

gem (trisk), Tuesday, 14 June 2005 05:18 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
does anyone know anything about these places:
u of minnesota
u of washington
george washington
u of wisconsin
boston u
u of michigan
berkeley

i guess i'm taking the exam in early october so i still don't know how smart i am. i also pretty much hate writing application essays.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Are you practicing for the LSATs? Taking a class? You should practice a shitload. Seriously. It's like the most important factor, and everyone else will be practicing. Plus you should know in advance how well you think you're going to do to give you an idea of the range of schools you should apply to.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:28 (eighteen years ago) link

working on it!

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:32 (eighteen years ago) link

they're all good law schools, caitlin! best ones are prob. u. mich. and berkeley (boalt hall).

Eisbär (llamasfur), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link

yes, but do they admit MORANS????

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:44 (eighteen years ago) link

YES I WORK WITH SOME

Dr. Glen Y. Abreu (dr g), Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:48 (eighteen years ago) link

i've told panhandling crackheads in NYC, philadelphia, and newark to "get lost," "go to hell," and to "fuck off." a few of them threatened me and some even charged at me. i'm lucky that i'm alive, i think.
-- Eisbär (llamasfu...), July 29th, 2005

2, Saturday, 30 July 2005 16:49 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
ok the test is in one week. i thought i'd have more time to study but school is kind of hard right now. it's ok, i just took a practice test and got 165. just 8 more questions right and i get 170. i think i can do that, i just got out of practice on the logic games in the past few weeks. and the people one floor down are listening to kansas or something, very loud.

i'm getting a very good recommendation from a former philosophy professor and she said i MUST apply to NYU. i tried telling her i am not smart enough but she said that's garbage and girls always say they aren't smart enough. hmm ok i think i will make it a mega-reach. oh i also don't have 37k a year or whatever.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Saturday, 24 September 2005 17:14 (eighteen years ago) link

Good luck with it all! You can become a lawyer representing NOIZE interests against the Man.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 September 2005 17:22 (eighteen years ago) link

mmm trial

kurt broder (dr g), Saturday, 24 September 2005 17:37 (eighteen years ago) link

Good luck with it all! You can become a lawyer representing NOIZE interests against the Man.

i already do that.

cutty (mcutt), Saturday, 24 September 2005 17:42 (eighteen years ago) link

http://devfiles.sts.winisp.net/Blog%20Files/Image001.jpg

kurt broder (dr g), Saturday, 24 September 2005 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link

i already do that.

Let's see some results.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 24 September 2005 17:56 (eighteen years ago) link

I'm now an LSAT teacher, which officially makes me one of the dumbest people who is smart enough to get into a top law school.

Hurting (Hurting), Saturday, 24 September 2005 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link

this should be a mounta1n g0ats song

mookieproof (mookieproof), Saturday, 24 September 2005 19:45 (eighteen years ago) link

Lately I've been working with a blind woman who is taking the LSAT on, what, next Saturday. Kaplan has been giving her a terrible time, and is next to useless (and seemingly proud of it) for blind people. That's sad but not surprising at all; what is surprising is that LSAC or whatever the group is that puts on the test has also been very difficult for her to work with. They are willing to pay so little to hire a qualified reader for the day of the test that she has been bumped around to several different schools now, and finally is taking the test at a school that is willing to take the financial hit and still administer the test properly and fairly. But that school is an hour away. Bah.

Anyway, so I've been reading for her, and it's been interesting, since I do very well at it -- I mean I'm not entirely sure, since she gets double time because she has to hear it instead of read it, and I keep forgetting that I'd have to work everything out twice as fast. Still, the fact that I'd probably do very well on the test makes me think I should take the test -- and yet I have no interest in going to law school.

Doing logic games when you have almost no eyesight and can't read your diagrams reliably is no fun at all.

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 24 September 2005 19:54 (eighteen years ago) link

Basically the same thing has happened to me -- not the reading to a blind woman part, of course. But my gf was preparing, and for fun I looked at the material myself. Turns out I'm a natural at it and I was able to get a 169 on a practice test without too much practice. So now even though lawyer is one of the last things I thought I want to be, I'm suddenly thinking I should go to law school -- you know, be financially set, have a stimulating job, and maybe even work for some kind of political or social change (though going into law school without full conviction you want to do that seems pretty much like facing Darth Vader without completing your Jedi training).

Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 25 September 2005 02:12 (eighteen years ago) link

i did fine on the practice lsats but i got a little panicky on test day and didn't do that well. also, i was hung over. i was concentrating on my nausea instead of the questions. i'd like to take it again sometime; i haven't completely given up on wanting to go to law school.

the happy smile patrol (Jody Beth Rosen), Sunday, 25 September 2005 02:18 (eighteen years ago) link

yeah everyone on the noize bored will eventually end up going. i'm applying to teach for america also, just in case. or if i get into that and i get into a school i want, i might defer. the future is wide open, you know.

caitlin oh no (caitxa1), Sunday, 25 September 2005 02:28 (eighteen years ago) link

ah, you kids. so innocent.

cutty (mcutt), Sunday, 25 September 2005 03:22 (eighteen years ago) link


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