The BBC

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Well that's the impression I've got. I don't think many people think the current system of governors is that great. Maybe I'm wrong - I haven't been following it that closely - you probably know as much as me. I'll shut up now.

N. (nickdastoor), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:05 (sixteen years ago) link

Sheffield people will be familiar with the term

Blades Business Crew

Serious sheffield united hooligans

.....................strike me down..............

dddfdanon, Wednesday, 18 February 2004 01:07 (sixteen years ago) link

Ipswich people will be familair with the term

Ipswich Total Violence

(OK, I made that up and in fact when we supposedly had a "firm" they decided to call themselves The Spanners, why they did is anyone's guess)

Chewshabadoo (Chewshabadoo), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 03:51 (sixteen years ago) link

four years pass...

BBC blamed for attacks on Poles

Tom D., Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:01 (twelve years ago) link

wtf @ that guy

Just got offed, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:04 (twelve years ago) link

Tories, eh?

Tom D., Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:04 (twelve years ago) link

Sub-Passantino at best

Dom Passantino, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:06 (twelve years ago) link

At 6 feet 8½ inches (204 cm), Kawczynski is believed to be the tallest MP ever to sit in the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

Just got offed, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:19 (twelve years ago) link

But the average height of doors in Westminster is six feet eight and now he wants ministers to take account of an increasingly tall UK population.

"Being officially a giant myself... you want to raise things which pertain to yourself and people like you," he said.

ISSUES4U

Just got offed, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:22 (twelve years ago) link

Also I'm sure he said all this a couple of months ago somewhere else. Why has it come up again now?

Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:57 (twelve years ago) link

Oh, yes, in the Independent.

Ned Trifle II, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 11:58 (twelve years ago) link

He'll be blaming the BBC for attacks on giants next

Tom D., Wednesday, 4 June 2008 12:00 (twelve years ago) link

I'd guess he has a point if he's talking about Tory voters mouthing off on the mid-morning phone-ins on local stations like BBC Radio Shropshire etc.

James Mitchell, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:42 (twelve years ago) link

Conservative Friends of Poland

Like Neville Chamberlain, he means?

Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:46 (twelve years ago) link

Pretty sure it's mostly Channel 4 running the anti-Polish stuff. But it is tricky spotting the difference between Panorama and the Völkischer Beobachter most weeks.

Noodle Vague, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:53 (twelve years ago) link

EXCLUSIVE: Max Mosley confirmed as new Panorama presenter.

Dingbod Kesterson, Wednesday, 4 June 2008 15:57 (twelve years ago) link

one year passes...

A step too far, this is causing as much kerfuffle as when the moved women's hour.

Mornington Crescent (Ed), Friday, 12 June 2009 02:58 (eleven years ago) link

one month passes...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/jul/14/ben-bradshaw-bbc-management

the bbc does seem amazingly inept at covering its arse. it is kind of a symptom of a wider elite-class self-aggrandizement that the likes of byford and thompson think they deserve mad money, but it's still going to come back to bite them.

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Tuesday, 14 July 2009 09:31 (ten years ago) link

beeb has kind of an impossible job in dealing with its critics, since they simultaneously claim the licence fee isn't justified because the bbc isn't populist enough and that it isn't justified because it doesn't provide enough specialised content that the commercial sector won't touch. i can't see that sharing the licence fee does anything to help except spreading it thinner.

agree that bbc bosses don't help the cause though.

joe, Tuesday, 14 July 2009 09:42 (ten years ago) link

three months pass...

is it really going to be dismantled?
― D Aziz (esquire1983), Wednesday, 18 February 2004 00:03 (5 years ago)

Possibly, if - when - the Tories get in.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/oct/19/wed-abolish-bbc-trust-hunt

DavidM, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:07 (ten years ago) link

Has to be a troll:

Pay per view BBC news would allow the lefties to view their own biased news reports while the rest of us could choose ITV news for more impartial reporting.

James Mitchell, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:13 (ten years ago) link

this business about "damaging commercial competitors" really pisses me off. we should be celebrating the fact that the BBC creates quality products and services for "free", not requiring it to dumb down its offerings so that something inferior and expensive can maintain market share.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:25 (ten years ago) link

Whenever that comment is made, it is usually voiced by someone with vested interests eg. Murdoch. In America, Murdoch goes after Obama but here he goes after impartial news media. This should be a good compass for anyone wishing to locate the centre of power in any given country. Who does Murdoch go after in, say, China?

Yo! GOP Raps (suzy), Monday, 19 October 2009 10:29 (ten years ago) link

yeah, you do wonder whether this is the quid for the quo of The Sun's support.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:34 (ten years ago) link

tories don't need any outside encouragement to go after the bbc, tbh.

joe, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:37 (ten years ago) link

So is the Mail anti-Beeb purely because of DMGT's regional newspapers? Or is there something else, aside from Jonathan Ross and the telly tax?

James Mitchell, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:44 (ten years ago) link

it's ideological - the bbc is full of lefties.

joe, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:47 (ten years ago) link

not only that, the whole concept of the BBC is lefty.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 10:54 (ten years ago) link

and yet they've employed Jeremy Clarkson, Carol Thatcher, Michael Burke, Patrick Moore (latter two mentioned just due to sexist comments made in past)...

modescalator (blueski), Monday, 19 October 2009 10:58 (ten years ago) link

Patrick Moore is very right-wing on immigration too, unfortunately.

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:05 (ten years ago) link

and yet they've employed Jeremy Clarkson, Carol Thatcher, Michael Burke, Patrick Moore (latter two mentioned just due to sexist comments made in past)...

... and Andrew Neil and Michael Portillo and Nick Robinson and Quentin Letts ad nauseum

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:08 (ten years ago) link

Michael Buerk is a Conservative?

Yo! GOP Raps (suzy), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:11 (ten years ago) link

Only when it comes to the BBC employing women, I think... women who get jobs he wants, that is

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:12 (ten years ago) link

sexist, conservative, racist - all the same

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:16 (ten years ago) link

Regardless of how many sexist conservative racist rightwingers are employed there, the very existence of the BBC as a huge part of the media landscape is a slap in the face to Tory free market ideals, so obviously they want to pare it back. I don't think it's all about Murdoch.

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:20 (ten years ago) link

In my own experience, sexism is not limited to conservative men!

Yo! GOP Raps (suzy), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:20 (ten years ago) link

LOL, far from it!

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:22 (ten years ago) link

Wondering how many Tories are anti-Beeb (lol anti-Auntie, don't mind me) cz free market ideals, nanny state trying to make us pay for socialised tv, drag out ancient acronym about the commies etc, and how many are in favour of preserving it as a Great British institution from the days when Great Britain etc etc, y'know, a relatively staid old thing that doesn't put quite as many flashing neon colours and topless ladies on as the other channels

I mean, the other group does exist, right? Or is this the sector of small-c conservatives who wouldn't admit to being such and vote Lib Dem? (PS this is not really intended derogatively as it describes much of my family and quite possibly me)

Hardly any of the latter and none who matter <--------- satirical poetry

The Prince's choice: making a brush. (Tom D.), Monday, 19 October 2009 11:44 (ten years ago) link

and even they would be appeased by one radio station playing Test Match Special, the shipping forecast and The Archers

tomofthenest, Monday, 19 October 2009 11:47 (ten years ago) link

the opposition from Murdoch, the Mail etc is predicated purely on the BBC grabbing a fairly hefty slice of online eyeballs and TV ratings that might otherwise be going to their properties - however Murdoch's greatest fear is that the BBC carries advertising.. because then the advertisers would spread their (finite amount of) money over to the BBC innit

Tracer Hand, Monday, 19 October 2009 12:11 (ten years ago) link

however Murdoch's greatest fear is that the BBC carries advertising..

also many BBC supporters greatest fear surely

modescalator (blueski), Monday, 19 October 2009 12:21 (ten years ago) link

i can't believe i said "carries" instead of using the subjunctive. GAH

Tracer Hand, Monday, 19 October 2009 12:23 (ten years ago) link

Fun fact: the BBC was nationalised under a Tory government.

Zelda Zonk, Monday, 19 October 2009 12:44 (ten years ago) link

yeah, THAT'll stop their commie styles in their TRACKS! oh wait (a long time)

Mark G, Monday, 19 October 2009 12:56 (ten years ago) link

one month passes...

Some guy on the weather forecast talking about a lull in the rain definitely used the phrase "a bit of rest-bite" today. Beginning of the end if you ask me.

The bugger in the short sleeves (NickB), Sunday, 22 November 2009 19:31 (ten years ago) link

Given the accuracy of the Met Office, that forecast might prove to be something of a damp squid.

Neil S, Sunday, 22 November 2009 19:39 (ten years ago) link

now we have a weatherman wearing jeans. It's a speedy apocalypse.

FC Tom Tomsk Club (Merdeyeux), Sunday, 22 November 2009 19:49 (ten years ago) link

I'm glad to agree with Jed about these last episodes and the rubbish Italian villa nonsense.

the pinefox, Tuesday, 26 May 2020 12:24 (one month ago) link

Had no idea about the Normal People split - that explains a lot.

Eyeball Kicks, Wednesday, 27 May 2020 19:08 (one month ago) link

The stakes don't seem high enough in Normal People to justify the torment dealt to Marianne, in my opinion. I can believe that a mother could, irl, support a son who had beaten up his sister and broke her nose but I don't accept it in the service of this particular story and I find the fact that so many people find the story romantic to be worrying.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 28 May 2020 03:26 (one month ago) link

Again broadly agree.

It may well be that much more is going in the novel, or that it's a great novel. But the TV version has to be judged on its own terms.

In the TV version not enough is going on, not enough is at stake (as Jed says), and whatever problems characters have are not properly explained, despite 6 hours to do it.

It's attractive and appealing in a way but the longer it goes on, the less it stands up. By the last few episodes I couldn't help thinking it was pretty dire.

the pinefox, Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:50 (one month ago) link

I thought this thread revival would be about Emily Maitlis and Newsnight!

the pinefox, Thursday, 28 May 2020 11:50 (one month ago) link

I've started the Italian episode but not hugely incentivised to finish it, or the series.

Both leads are believably useless emotionally but Marianne has an unlikability that goes along with it. And I keep thinking we're supposed to Intuit more about her than we're presented - thinking about, for example, Sophie's clumsy attempt at organising a threesome; are we supposed to find Marianne's reaction sympathetic or pathetic? Romantic or deluded? I get the feeling it's definitely supposed to be one rather than the other, and I think I'm on the wrong side. Conversely, for someone who we're supposed to think is really just a bogtrotter Conner is woke af about rights to say no etc (even making a big point of it the first time they have sex) but at the same time is having no-strings hookups and nearly fucks his old teacher just because he can.

The strangest thing for me was writing off a large element of the greater cast as not worth it because "they're typical Trinity types" when one of the protagonists is exactly that.

Mud... jam... failure (aldo), Thursday, 28 May 2020 17:23 (one month ago) link

safe to say I'll be giving "Football, Prince William and Our Mental Health" a miss unless at some point they conduct an experiment to see if kicking the fuck out of William's head has far more superior mental health benefits than kicking a football.

calzino, Thursday, 28 May 2020 19:40 (one month ago) link

They should announce a s2 of Normal People and just make it about Lorraine cleaning houses and being lovely because she's absolutely the best thing about the show.

Heavy Messages (jed_), Thursday, 28 May 2020 23:51 (one month ago) link

Conversely, for someone who we're supposed to think is really just a bogtrotter Conner is woke af about rights to say no etc (even making a big point of it the first time they have sex) but at the same time is having no-strings hookups and nearly fucks his old teacher just because he can

I don't think that's right - in the series he's super-intelligent plus he's been brought up by a very smart single mother with a keen eye for the way women are treated / mistreated by men. He's read Germaine Greer by the time he's 18! And in the incident with his former teacher he walks away even when absolutely hammered.

I didn't think this was brilliant but I found it more interesting than some of you seemed to - as a story about how people are formed and deformed by their circumstances and experiences (family, class, sex, blah blah) and how that plays through their good and bad behaviour and decisions, it was interesting enough. And it, like the novel, manages to be too on-the-nose about any of it I think. I think when both work best they absolutely leave some confusion about whether something's romantic or pathetic. I definitely recognised the pain of watching people who at base are decent are the same bad decision over and over again. (I liked the book as much as I liked the series FWIW, I thought both were good but not outstanding.)

Tim, Friday, 29 May 2020 10:15 (one month ago) link

New season of David Olusoga's A House Through Time started this week, it's Bristol this time. Great stuff as always, he's one of the main reasons to still tune in to the BBC these days.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 29 May 2020 10:21 (one month ago) link

Yeah, I saw that last night, great episode to kick things off. Looking forward to part two. I loved that they explained the 18th century political 'cartoon', explaining all the tiny details. 'The Sixth Letter' book in one's pocket, dragging a dead man to the polls to get his vote etc.

It's about Englands's slavery past - well, those who profited from it immensely - and I've been seeing more of that incidentally (even fucking Paul from FlogIt had a 'slavery was bad! It's going under hammer right now!' epiphany recently). I don't know if this is a new thing for England, but it's been noticeable.

Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 29 May 2020 10:59 (one month ago) link

Xps

Marianne's pain is more present in the text, even if the causes of it are more absent - in the figure of the monstrous father. One way of reading Marianne and the brother is that they both compulsively repeat the cycle of abuse. Which is a way of saying I 'believed' her more readily in the text. I think that's a function of the space of literature but that needs unpacking.

I keep coming back to the title. I think it's supposed to be provocative and the adjective is doing a hell of a lot of that provocation but it's there and my response is to think, well, how *about* some normal people then? The series, especially, is full of normal people and they're made out to be almost grotesque - there's not even a deferred glow, they're just shadow figures. What about his story - him with his worries about his small dick or her with her worries about body hair (just to focus on bodies)? That would be normal. Instead we get a fetishised, voyeuristic close-up of beautiful people being tortured by their genius and beauty, however little they understand these things. (Not that I don't enjoy looking at beautiful people being beautiful, but still.)

Anyway, that's all a rambling and confused.

Vanishing Point (Chinaski), Friday, 29 May 2020 11:14 (one month ago) link

(even fucking Paul from FlogIt had a 'slavery was bad! It's going under hammer right now!' epiphany recently).

lol

Slavery was also very much present in the previous seasons but it's more to the front in this one I agree. I like how upfront the presentation is: these are the people who lived in this house, this is how they made their money. Very hard to spin as activist historians or revisionism, though I'm sure if the show becomes more popular the usual suspects will have a go.

Daniel_Rf, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:04 (one month ago) link

And it, like the novel, manages to be too on-the-nose about any of it I think.

?

Wonder if this should be: 'manages not to be' ?

the pinefox, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:49 (one month ago) link

One of the many problems with the programme is something it shares with tons of visual narrative, which is that it tends to be terrible at rendering literature, writing, reading - or sometimes even ideas and thinking.

Thus: by the end, we're told that Conor is an amazing writer. But the programme has shown us absolutely nothing that he has written that looked in any way amazing. At best, we have simply to imagine this quality. But given that it's presumably supposed to be so important to him, that's not very adequate.

At one point she says his emails to her were amazing. He jokes that they're better than his stories. Well, what we do see / hear even of their emails to each other are embarrassingly mundane. 'Normal' if you like. It's fine to write and send such emails. But it's not good for them to appear in a programme where it's implied that they're works of genius.

the pinefox, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:53 (one month ago) link

There was really so much bad about this programme that I should just give up thinking about it at all.

I still recognize that the book could possibly be much better.

Here's a better thing about the BBC: iPlayer currently hosts a load of terrific RKO films. I'm going to watch MY FAVOURITE WIFE later.

the pinefox, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:55 (one month ago) link

xp yes thanks PF, should have been not "not too on the nose".

Tim, Friday, 29 May 2020 12:59 (one month ago) link

Slavery was also very much present in the previous seasons but it's more to the front in this one I agree. I like how upfront the presentation is: these are the people who lived in this house, this is how they made their money. Very hard to spin as activist historians or revisionism, though I'm sure if the show becomes more popular the usual suspects will have a go.

― Daniel_Rf, Friday, May 29, 2020 2:04 PM (two hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

Thanks, I didn't know that as I haven't seen all previous seasons. Agreed on how up-front it is, it really works. David Olusoga's delivery is very good for this approach.

Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 29 May 2020 14:06 (one month ago) link

This from the former deputy leader of North Somerset Council: https://t.co/qLBlvm6Djb

— Martin Booth (@beardedjourno) May 28, 2020

kinder, Friday, 29 May 2020 15:07 (one month ago) link

Can't believe there are thick ignorant racists in Somerset

Children of Bo-Dom (Noodle Vague), Friday, 29 May 2020 15:19 (one month ago) link

Hold on, I've been led to believe that only working class people from the Midlands and the North can be thick ignorant racists.

Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Friday, 29 May 2020 15:22 (one month ago) link

"Some cruelty yes but"

Le Bateau Ivre, Friday, 29 May 2020 15:22 (one month ago) link

XPs

At one point she says his emails to her were amazing. He jokes that they're better than his stories. Well, what we do see / hear even of their emails to each other are embarrassingly mundane. 'Normal' if you like. It's fine to write and send such emails. But it's not good for them to appear in a programme where it's implied that they're works of genius.

I have (had, actually, as they've mostly been forgotten) Thoughts about Normal People but this was one of them (also Aldo otm). Including how they're meant to be excellent writers - we see a flash of this in Marianne (as I've moaned about before - after the first two eps where she's mainly talking about how she's not like other girls) but not really anywhere in their communication for the most part. Is that meant to be some kind of irony? I watched the weird 'breaking glass in sink' 'flashback for most of ep' 'back to broken glass in sink' bit and didn't understand what had happened, then the next ep opened with another kind of flashback about this iirc? Like everything takes so long to spell out except the actually important stuff. That Jamie or whatever he was called was such a bloody pantomime villain too, was any of his character supposed to be anything other than bog standard sneery entitled Grange Hill bully? Did he and Marianne share anything on any intellectual level? Where did Peggy go?
I did like that the characters that seemed to help Marianne through everything were the 'normal' (ha) women, just by being there without anything to prove - Lorraine and the English flatmate with no mummy issues who was gently checking in on her the whole time.
I feel like lots of people got a lot from this series/book and I possibly just missed it all.
Also this https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/may/05/sally-rooney-normal-people-hulu-bbc-soap-opera

kinder, Friday, 29 May 2020 15:23 (one month ago) link

Well I got to the end. I guess the only time I really engaged with it was in Conner's reaction to the suicide, but when it was just turned into a narrative excuse for his behaviour which wasn't apparently different from before then I was just annoyed.

My big takeaway is that we make all our life decisions before we have the experience or emotional ability to make them.

Mud... jam... failure (aldo), Friday, 29 May 2020 16:18 (one month ago) link

ok all day the bbc news main headline has been about a rocket going into space. considering whats happening in th euk and around the world w/ covid an considering what else is happening in the us this is fn perverse. also how inefficient is the private sector, literally 50+ years behind the ussr

plax (ico), Saturday, 30 May 2020 21:28 (one month ago) link

nick robinson currently doing an in-depth interview with someone from “the national diversity coalition for trump”

crucial stuff there...

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 June 2020 07:18 (one month ago) link

i heard him the other day doing a jokey "you would say that wouldn't you, hoho" with a tory saying we should move on from dominic cummings. cunts all of them.

neith moon (ledge), Monday, 1 June 2020 07:46 (one month ago) link

creditable job on the 10 of covering the protests. called them a continuation of historical injustice and grievance rather than an aberration. two live OBs.

now a fairly brutal piece on contract tracers “sitting on their arse”.

how come Today can’t do this?

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 June 2020 21:14 (one month ago) link

Sarah Sands, next question?

santa clause four (suzy), Monday, 1 June 2020 21:15 (one month ago) link

yeah :(

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Monday, 1 June 2020 21:17 (one month ago) link

New DG has been announced: Tim Davie.

Big news, I assume.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/jun/05/bbc-appoints-insider-tim-davie-as-director-general

the pinefox, Friday, 5 June 2020 10:57 (one month ago) link

It's another white man but at least this time it's one with Big Croydon Energy.

I think the BBC will need a bit of a bruiser in the coming years, and he can be that. He's not genteel. He's capable of thinking in quite ruthless commercial terms. But I don't think he'll sell the corporation out - he's BBC to the bone.

He doesn't have a news background - so it'll be interesting to see what he does there.

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 11:12 (one month ago) link

hmm i see he is a tory

feck

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 20:16 (one month ago) link

The optics are...not great. Rona Fairhead was widely distrusted for being married to a Tory councillor. Davie was deputy chair of the local party.

ShariVari, Friday, 5 June 2020 20:32 (one month ago) link

and responsible for BBC Store

stet, Friday, 5 June 2020 21:16 (one month ago) link

the less said of that the better

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 22:07 (one month ago) link

Presumably the optics are good for Tories, who will be calling the shots in the mid-charter review?

Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Friday, 5 June 2020 22:09 (one month ago) link

two weeks pass...

Absolutely losing my mind at a BBC panel show discussing the possibilities for radical global change after coronavirus ft George Osborne, Tony Blair and A MINISTER IN ORBAN'S GOVERNMENT https://t.co/WpaR5GI5ir

— Dan Hancox (@danhancox) June 22, 2020

lol this shite was on R4 and WS at the same time when I tried to switch over, beyond a fucking joke!

calzino, Monday, 22 June 2020 11:00 (two weeks ago) link

I knew Amol Rajan was a horrible right wing bullshit merchant from his despicable media program on R4, but it's much worse than that Jim!

calzino, Monday, 22 June 2020 11:04 (two weeks ago) link


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