Strictly 4 My Underground Homo Deep House Thugs: DJ Sprinkles - Midtown 120 Blues

but you see, i'm not black. or 45 years old.

so maybe i'll just change it to : i'm a white, 25-year-old white man who enjoys ENJOYS taking dick in his rectum. i ain't yo bitch. your bitch is at home with your kids. (snaps included of course)

and if possible do that thing with your eyes.

i can do that.

Paris is Burning is great. I still haven't heard this album :-( Suffice it so say, if TT is angry about Madonna stealing someone else's culture for her own benefit, I get it. Everyone in the documentary is dead, and probably died poor.

sorry ...everyone FEATURED in...

Man, just added two more movies to my xmas-movie-marathon to-watch list. i have no idea how i frequently manage to be ignorant of so many important/well-known docs.

i would have something to say about midtown 120 blues if i was remotely capable of absorbing it all. i'm on my second or third listen and i don't even have the vocabulary to talk about what it does.

that fore-mentioned "Paris Is Burning" doc is great, watched it on Xmas eve and been playing Cheryl Lynn "Got To Be Real" and Diana Ross "Love Hangover" (both on the soundtrack" ever since.

It also reminded me of Malcolm Maclaren's vogueing tribute which is excellent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9KDmJQjS_0

i would have something to say about midtown 120 blues if i was remotely capable of absorbing it all. i'm on my second or third listen and i don't even have the vocabulary to talk about what it does.

Yeah, this is how I feel.

tongues untied is all over the k-s.h.e album (another DJ sprinkles alias). amazing. check out "crosstown":
http://www.comatonse.com/releases/k-she/

oops, sorry, this is the link with mp3 clips:
http://www.comatonse.com/releases/k-she/cd.html

> i always wonder what brenda's $20 dilemma was and if it worked out okay

probably the same story in the cartoon on the back of dj sprinkles "sloppy 42nds"?
http://comatonse.com/img/c006feefee.gif

oooh! thanks beavis. huh huh, huh.

re: downloads
here's dj sprinkles' take on juno and the rest:
http://comatonse.com/releases/c018/
http://comatonse.com/soundfiles/
to sum it up, terre's been burned by major online distributors selling albums without contracts. midtown 120 blues is apparently authorized for download through pay sites, but other thaemlitz albums are not.

NOTE: Be sure to tell Iris to remove the works from their EU partner Junodownload.com as well - I and others have noticed our works remained available on Juno for over a year after Iris should have removed them. They were removed after a second request was submitted to Iris.

Had no idea. So my Juno download purchase was unauthorized? Is Juno a disreputable service? FWIW, I searched for DJ Sprinkles on eMusic, but nothing from him is available there.

*THIS IS THE WAY ~WE~ JACK THE HOUSE*

Got halfway through Paris is Burning (mother's apartment's shitty internet connexion does not like youtube ugh). I like it a lot!

Although, I feel kind of weird watching it. As a middle-class cis white queer in my early 20s two decades on, this is clearly NOT my world and it feels intrusive and tourist-y to observe, almost. In part this might be a result of the film being MADE by a middle-class white lesbian who stood to gain a lot from selling the stories of marginalized queers of colour to a straight, white audience, but to some extent its an issue inherent in ME as well.

In the same way that I feel disconnected from Thaemlitz's music, I feel removed from Paris is Burning. Removed from whatever process of education/integration/etc. into queer culture that exists? existed? at one point - that specific idea of queer culture as LOCALIZED and GEOGRAPHIC and COMMUNITY-BASED that is made explicit at various points in Midtown 120 Blues - my ability to view 'queer culture' as something I share ownership of is compromised, be it Deep House or drag or actresses of the 30s or whatever at any given point in time. As a result, I often feel like I appreciate queer film/music/art as an outsider/observer. Which is to say, Midtown 120 Blues sounds gorgeous and makes me profoundly ANGRY on behalf of Thaemlitz et al. and is a sublime artistic statement, and it makes me THINK but I don't necessarily think it was made for me.

I don't know if the above is particularly coherent but its the best response I can come up to the album for now. Suffice it to say, I will be listening to this album a lot more.

i dunno i just thought that movie was fun and that some of the guys were kinda hot

Haha! It is fun! And some of the guys are hot! But the movie made a couple million for Miramax and won a bunch of critics awards, and the ball-ers in the movie for the most part gained a bit of exposure, not much money, and...I dunno. From what I've read via google they got a pretty raw deal. One of them was murdered before the film was released, a bunch of them died of AIDS-related conditions in the early 90s. Not to fetishize tragedy or to diminish the strength of the movie's subjects - they're astoundingly interesting and strong people - but (to regress into undergrad-speak) the documentary seems to be 'problematic'.

I am writing in the manner of the kind of queer studies I usually want to punch in the face, but this is why I normally steer clear of this stuff. *Shaking My Head*

yeah ppl in documentaries don't get paid tho and they're not like innocent lambs, they were pretty much grownups who wanted to get a bit famous so like i kinda think its a bit patronising to frame it like that

like tough on them they missed the reality tv era

A few things:

1. Alex, this culture does still exist. It is even more glammed out now, for obvious reasons, but it DEFINITELY exists. I have been to a ball or two.

2. I highly recommend reading some Guy Hocquenghem. He pretty angrily, but logically, destroys the idea of 'ownership' of identity. Or at least he equates such an idea of 'ownership' with a capitalist framework that should be subverted. Check out "The Screwball Asses" or "Beyond Gay Identity." Or pick up a copy of "Polysexuality: A Semiotext(e) Reader." That has one of his primary essays in it.

3. As said above, Bersani has talked not only about the white lesbian who made the film, but also those who participated in it. In "Homos," he criticizes the ball'rs as actually glorifying the culture they are trying to mock by elevating it to a level of prestige— of capitalist excess and high, white-owned fashion— thus allowing themselves to be consumed. His critique is one that troubles me greatly, and I frankly don't agree with him, but I find it interesting nonetheless.

yeah i don't really buy bersani either tbh

i think this idea of doubling is kinda structural to what we define as "queer", this is gonna sound half formed/assed but i was thinking abt it in the car earlier so

so yeah in a way bersani is right but he also misunderstands how his criticism is kinda rootless. Queer culture isn't really about subverting existing cultural practice but doubling them, and it draws its power from the origin, it doesn't change its meaning but makes a changed copy, which is different. Like the original isn't reinscribed with queerness and this is why queering is kinda sketchy for me, like how gay cowboys are such an archetype but ppl were still surprised by brokeback mtn. its a dumb example but u know, "gay cowboys" as in the 50's muscle mag archetype r a different iconography from actual on the prairies john wayne cowboys and I don't know how successful queer culture has ever been at reinscribing itself on what straight culture, it needs its double in order to situate itself as other which is kinda how queer culture works maybe

i was thinkin maybe the exact opposite watching beyonce do single ladies on some awards show the other day

the vmas

hmmm, I think "Single Ladies" makes for an interesting case when set against "Vogue" in re: superstar musician appropriating a gay-originated dance style. I just wish I had more to say about it.

What's the context of the Singles Ladies dance - I thought it was just on some Bob Fosse-type shit, no?

ti4rn4n, you're right, but what Bersani eventually comes to (and Hocquehnghem suggested even earlier) is that queering in any fashion is exactly what you're talking about— a reconstituting of heterosexual, capitalist cultural norms, so that the heterosexual matrix in some way still controls the very 'subversion' that queers are supposedly performing. this is why i've sort of abandoned the self-identifier 'queer' in a lot of ways, since i sort of agree with Bersani and Hocquenghem on the issue.

anyway, i can talk about this shit for hours... n1ck saw Thaemlitz speak in amsterdam. when he told me, i was like, "you fucking lucky lucky boi"

xp the choreography is basically fosse vs j-setting, which is a style that came out of atlanta's gay clubs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-QRjkmLEuE

Huh. That looks insanely difficult.

Setting aside the promotion of child-rearing in late 19th century America and England at the apex of their imperialist ambitions, I never quite understood the conflation of capitalism with heterosexuality, especially since queers have been the most avid participants in a consumerist culture forever, but this is an argument for another thread.

i think if u look at this historically tho it makes sense - i mean the condition of homosexuality has been like this hidden culture, i'm thinking like dusty springfield slipping polari into interviews. A lot of gay codes have to work as secret signals that are wide open, obv not really anymore in western countries and also the internet has changed this a lot but. So I mean gay culture has had to grow up as a version of straight culture, so that it can pass and also be understood as its own discrete codes etc. U c that in paris is burning with the whole bit on "realness." So much so that you could make a point that it shows how successful the ball'rs apprppriation of like hollywood glamour etc. was, that it could so easily be re-appropriated back into straight culture via madonna, malcolm mclaren etc.

I think i'm a little less forgiving wrt beyonce because of that rumour that one of the dancers in single ladies/sweet dreams was the choreographer. I know it prolly woulda been kinda insulting to get called a dude for the girl dancer, but I still think they couldv let the rumour circulate and not deny it instead of shooting it down etc. well maybe not, but also when she did it at the vmas she had these white chicks also dancing with her and I was kinda like "couldn't they have had some guys 2?" I mean, I saw a kylie minogue concert where they had guys wearing can-can dresses but maybe that is b-c this is europe i dunno.

especially since queers have been the most avid participants in a consumerist culture forever

not true. but since this is a dj sprinkles/terre thaemlitz thread, i'll let that go for another time.

would be in interesting topic for a thread... more in terms of the history of the culture. at least some part of the perception of "mere consumerism" amongst homosexuals must have something to do with the death of Modernism, the transformation of fashion and entertainment (formerly "art") into global industries, the way that these niches that were carved out were stripped of any sociopolitical import...

there is a difference between Fred Schneider's take on secondhand and some stereotype of a nihilist, selfish "twink" rummaging through a vintage clothing boutique in nolita.

yes!

I think i'm a little less forgiving wrt beyonce because of that rumour that one of the dancers in single ladies/sweet dreams was the choreographer.

random that i happened upon this part of the thread just as i've been looking into beyonce's choreographer (for single ladies and other things), jonte. i've been hanging around some dancer and designer types in nyc and he's been popping up. i wouldn't know without bothering to check the single ladies vid itself, but he's definitely been in some of her live performances on talk shows and whatnot. some of his solo stuff (sorry if this is off-topic or whatev):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ot5YiAt5p0M

nah that's awesome

though otoh I am totally reinforcing another stereotype about gay people. probably lots of gay people don't have any talent or interest in art or fashion just like, you know, any large group of people that are not defined specifically as artists or people into fashion. I haven't left NYC in a while.

I got dragged to a gay club a year and a half ago and met Jonte. He seemed like a nice guy. He had an entourage and a miniature top hat.

alex in montreal wrote:
> that specific idea of queer culture as LOCALIZED and GEOGRAPHIC and COMMUNITY-BASED that is made explicit at various points in Midtown 120 Blues - my ability to view 'queer culture' as something I share ownership of is compromised

i think this is precisely the contradiction terre is interested in exploring, through a wide range of releases and writings - particularly the notion of subverting/complicating "identity ownership" as a form of domination. terre had a strange relationship to the midtown scene, too, since she was apparently so intimidated by the post-op transsexuals that she chose to closet her own non-op transgenderism and always DJ'ed dressed as a boy. so i think she would agree on the culture being LOCALIZED thing, but is the type of person who is suspect of COMMUNITY as something different from actual social interactions, which can be much more contradictory or fragmented or hypocritical...

the transcript to his recent talk in amsterdam is kind of about this - dissecting and rejecting both concepts of "minority" and the deleuze/guattari concept of "becoming-minor," yet conceding a time and place for both.
http://www.comatonse.com/writings/becoming-minor.html
excerpt: "My proposal to you, in identifying these various problems with both the "minor" and "minorities," is not to think about deterritorialization or reterritorialization, but overterritorialization. By "overterritorialization" I mean simultaneously engaging in contradictory social identities; forsaking pride for an open investigation of shame and hypocrisy; inviting confusion in our own life and the lives of those around us; and not only thinking of social alliances in terms of cooperation, but to actively engage in non-cooperation as a means of socialization."

shh! it's not me! wrote:
>probably lots of gay people don't have any talent or interest in art or fashion

i can't find the articles now, but i remember terre talking several times about how the gay/lesbian marriage thing (from a romantic perspective) is proof that queers are as unimaginative as everyone else, the same conformist desires pounded into them, etc... also, how many people see sexual reassignment surgery as "radical," when in fact it is the ultimate attempt to become something conformist (conventional man or woman) - even if the quality of the results often prohibit that conformity.

I would like the authors those articles to tell me why they think homosexuality is inherently radical in the first place, given other animals do it without killing each other, et al.

isn't what other animals do kind of irrelevant to radicality, being more or less relative to human societal norms

I'm just saying homosexuality itself sort of exists outside of ethics, hence (to some extent) radical/establishment dialectics.

Like, OK, so we're not supposed to want marriage. We're not supposed to want to change our sex to more closely align our inside with society's standards of the outside. Are we supposed to routinely and regularly jerk it in public in the name of gay radicalism? Would that do it?

(And I guess by "in public" I mean not gay bars.)

at this point then i just think thaemlitz's point is based on one contradiction too many

eric, i have a headache right now so i won't go any further, but this statement— "I'm just saying homosexuality itself sort of exists outside of ethics, hence (to some extent) radical/establishment dialectics" — is so myopic that it sort of made me chuckle through the pain.

ti4rn4n, you're right, but what Bersani eventually comes to (and Hocquehnghem suggested even earlier) is that queering in any fashion is exactly what you're talking about— a reconstituting of heterosexual, capitalist cultural norms, so that the heterosexual matrix in some way still controls the very 'subversion' that queers are supposedly performing. this is why i've sort of abandoned the self-identifier 'queer' in a lot of ways, since i sort of agree with Bersani and Hocquenghem on the issue.

ok but I feel like the only answer to that would be "uh, we know." I don't think anyone trying to emulate hollywood movie-stars, or atlanta cheerleaders is really gonna be too upset by someone pointing out that they're copying straight culture. I mean, its pretty obvious. There's extended bits where they talk about Dallas or one where Venus Xtravaganza talks abt wanting to become a suburban housewife.

well, i'm not saying that the people within the ball'r culture would be upset....in fact, i never said that. don't really know why yr response was so condescending.