The Independence of Liz Phair

And if you re-read the sentence (and the thread) its pretty clear I'm not accusing you of anything.

By a very slight margin, but bear in mind that it cost TONS more to make and
TONS AND TONS more to promote - the return on the investment in it was
her poorest yet. So far, this has been true for each album.

> It seems like she's gained new fans to make up for those crying betrayal. It
> will hurt though when she realizes that these new fans are just as fickle as
> the indie fans.

I think she's always "traded even" - gaining (roughly) one new fan for every one
she's lost. But I think her ruin will be from the fact that it's been an expensive process, and therefore dangerous in careerist terms. She (and Capitol) really
believed that the last record would sell millions, and they spent an inordinate
amount of cash to make this happen. Barring greater success on this record,
you will either see Liz abandon music (she doesn't care enough about it for to
continue for its own sake) or totally retread.

I hate to break up the Prince dialogue but I have to track back to a point:

"Now I'm just trying to figure out if "singles" is a term that's not understood by the general population and thus needs to be defined in a NYT article."

I don't assume the general population realizes that certain songs are specifically crafted and tailored to the MOR (with top-tier artists, often with the involvement of guest writers like Diane Warren or Desmond Child) while other album tracks are by process closer to the artist's original intent.

So yes, the NYT had a good point in operationally defining "singles."

Joe’s Pub, 425 Lafayette St. (betw. E. 4th St. & Astor Pl.), 212-539-8778; 7, $25/adv., $30/door

--- A.D. Amorosi

that's much nicer than the recent indie trend of giving songs totally opaque song titles. although maybe this is not such a recent trend, and not necessarily indie either.

"One Thing She Did In the Early Days That I Miss"
"I Hate To Break Up the Prince Dialogue But I Have To Track Back To A Point"
"Although Maybe This Is Not Such A Recent Trend"
"The Whole Thing Had A Pleasing Concision To It"
"I Am Just A Big Talker and I Happen To Enjoy Spinning My Wheels"
"I Don't Know This Guy From Adam But I'll Call Him
Out"
It's About To Snap At Any Moment"
"Christ, She's On A Major"
A Diva Without Portfolio Or A Sly Genius, Depending"
Dude She's Looking For Someone To Take Care Of Her Kids"

Don't ask me to rationally defend this distinction, because I can't, but there it is.

those are great song titles.

haha oh boy

1) I conceded the what-those-songs-were-about a good while ago re Phair
2) the discussion moved toward Prince
3) I disagreed with some of the interpretive stuff in re: Prince based on things I've spent years thinking about, most of which is understandable enough but I've always heard them in different ways
4) this has jackshit to do with the Phair songs from earlier, whose content I conceded I probably misheard/remembered

there. is that basic enough for you?

And collaboratating with Dianne Warren and Desmond Child to craft singles wouldn't be closer to an artist's original intent?

Well, since Phair's songwriting shares exactly no aesthetic qualitites with Warren's (Desmond Child) - thematically, melodically, what have you - it's curious enough to warrant a "what's this about, then?" Like, if David Hockney suddenly announced a collaboration with Mark Kostabi (not that Phair's a Hockey nor Warren a Kostabi). There isn't much in Phair's catalogue that suggests an aesthetic kinship with Dianne Warren, so questioning whether the collaboration intends to explore some artistic connections or simply to "reach more listeners" (i.e. "make her songwriting more palatable to the broader audience that Warren has repeatedly demonstrated an ability to reach") seems fair.

Of course, the "debate" on "rockism" (which in its current incarnation is neither a debate, nor about rockism; it's public preening about social positioning) might argue that to decry artistic collaborations that are specifically about cold, hard cash is "naive," etc. But just because it's perfectly fine for art to be about commerce (it is!) doesn't mean that success is good simply by virtue of being profitable. Capitalism's all right (maybe), in other words; Wal-Mart's still a shitty store, and Phair/Warren's a dumb idea by any measure other than "hey, fuck, we could really sell some records if we got Dianne Warren on board!"

omg please have her release that!

http://www.patfullerton.com/superman/pix/phantomzone/generalzod.jpg

Liz & friends give oral history of Exile in Guyville
http://www.spin.com/articles/liz-phair-exile-in-guyville-oral-history-best-1993/

Phair: I can remember listening to [Guyville] in my apartment and thinking it sounded amazing. I was so proud and felt a rush of power because I had done something I knew was good. Listening back at my parents' house, privately, feeling terrified that my two worlds would collide and it was not going to be pretty. I had kept them separate. It would blow my cover.

Even more novel and exciting was the fact that Guyville was, in both form and concept, a rookie's rogue retort to classic rock: Phair conceived it as a track-by-track response to one of the pinnacles of swaggering musical masculinity, the Rolling Stones' Exile On Main St

I think I posted this on another thread, but a few days before it was released, she was interviewed on WXRT in Chicago. The interviewer asked if this was a response to the Stones record. Phair said she hadn't heard Main St. until after recording Guyville, and only knew it by name. The interviewer pointed out that Guyville had the same number of tracks as Main St.. Phair: "Really?! That's so weird. What a random coincidence."

= she was trolling xrt?

She seemed genuinely surprised. This was before there was much, or any, hype around her and the record.

Maybe she is a good actress? I dunno. I certainly don't think she's lying about it now.

Yeah, after she started talking about it being an intentional response I thought, huh, that's weird, she said she hadn't heard it. So yeah, either she was trolling xrt, or if she wasn't, she spent a lot of time coming up with a convincing backstory.

It was the way she described the way she went about the response that seemed really natural and logical to me, esp since she was a novice songwriter who had spent a lot of time listening to music.
trying to figure out patterns and reproduce them is what i'm doing right now, so that part really resonated with me. i have my own bizarro notation system and have adopted my own spirit animal record to experiment with. i hear where she's coming from and it doesn't seem to me to be an elaborate backstory. also she was at the age then that she totally would have trolled xrt!

i dunno, i thought it was interesting to read her in her own words with the benefit of hindsight.

Who among us wouldn't troll xrt if given then chance?

But it's definitely interesting reading about her/the record's development. Didn't know the drums were added last! Always thought the drumming on "Never Said" was pretty special.

The panning background vocals in the second verse (or bridge, I guess, since the melody is different) of "Never Said" are one of my favorite things in any 90s record.