S & D: Iranian film

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I admire Kiarostami, but I'll be damned if I can watch a single of one his movies without my attention wandering for long periods of time. Maybe it's my own fault.

I also have a suspicion that his movies are so slow because he may have nothing to say. But Close-Up = total masterpiece.

ryan, Wednesday, 6 November 2002 03:26 (twenty-one years ago) link

In addition to the films already mentioned I would also recommend 'Bashu, The Little Stranger' a film about a boy from the Persian Gulf area who escapes from war, stows away on a truck and accidentally finds himself in another part of Iran entirely, one in which he cannot understand much of the language spoken.

Mentioned above is the amazing film 'The Apple'. It tells the real story of two sisters who've been locked up by their father for their entire life until rescued by welfare authorities and it stars the family involved.

Amarga (Amarga), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 10:31 (twenty-one years ago) link

Julio, I haven't read it yet, but I've ordered it. There is a chapter about children in Iranian films, so I'm looking forward to that. The film is 'The White Balloon', which I'd seen, but I didn't remember it was a goldfish she was after.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 18:58 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah what is with iranian films & kids? almost every one i've seen has been about kids - specifically kids looking for something they've lost or trying to figure out how to obtain some kind of significant object (shoes, goldfish, textbook, etc.). what does this mean?

are kids used as subjects to go under the radar of state censorship? and why always the quest theme - i mean I know it's not unique to Iranian cinema but just seems so prevalent.

Fritz Wollner (Fritz), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 19:16 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think it probably is a way round the censors, but there are plenty of films without kids too, and a fair few seem hellbent on raising the shackles of conservatives, like 'The Circle', which is about some women who've just been let out of prison. I think the quest theme enables them to tackle elemental matters, a bit like folk stories à la Pinocchio, etc. Plus everyone loves films about kids. Hopefully I'll be more coherent when I've digested that book.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Wednesday, 6 November 2002 20:21 (twenty-one years ago) link

''Julio, I haven't read it yet, but I've ordered it. There is a chapter about children in Iranian films, so I'm looking forward to that. The film is 'The White Balloon', which I'd seen, but I didn't remember it was a goldfish she was after.''

the girl wants a goldfish. she haggles her mother for the money and then she loses it down the drain and she needs to get ppl to help her.

OK i saw it a long time ago and my memory isn't as good these days but that's how i remember it.

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 November 2002 11:10 (twenty-one years ago) link

I think she gets distraXORted by a snakecharmer or something.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 7 November 2002 19:45 (twenty-one years ago) link

yeah, she does eventually get the money out. but yeah its one of those movies that makes you feel all warm inside (just like the article on FT abt skateboarding, in fact).

Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Thursday, 7 November 2002 21:12 (twenty-one years ago) link

ten months pass...
The films of Abbas Kiarostami.

David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 17 September 2003 22:11 (twenty years ago) link

eleven months pass...
what a badass

http://www.mastersofcinema.org/pics/kiarostami_28_08_04.jpg

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 1 September 2004 18:58 (nineteen years ago) link

hey yo, whats crimson gold like?
i wann a see it, but it doesnt seem to be out on dvd in the uk.

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 2 September 2004 08:21 (nineteen years ago) link

I still haven't read that book, but it is on my shelf.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 2 September 2004 08:43 (nineteen years ago) link

'crimson gold' is v. good, ambrose. the guy who plays the male lead is like an iranian andre the giant and the long shots of him riding on his moped are v. pretty etc. there's a great scene, couldn't quite work it out, where he delivers a pizza to a v. rich guy who invites him in and befriends him, it's not so much awkward as wtf. I liked it though.

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 2 September 2004 09:56 (nineteen years ago) link

its too late nayway, i just ordered it off amazon. Yay for multiregion!

ambrose (ambrose), Thursday, 2 September 2004 10:39 (nineteen years ago) link

"crimson gold" was amazing. the lead actor turned out to be a paranoid-schizophrenic, thus much trouble on set.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

the scene cozen mentions is absolutely stunning.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:23 (nineteen years ago) link

agreed.

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:26 (nineteen years ago) link

For some reason, I can't get the scene where the camera simply observes Hussein in his dingy apartment out of my head. It was the most depressing-looking apartment I've probably ever seen in a film.

The conversation with the purse-snatcher in the second scene was pretty funny.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:27 (nineteen years ago) link

have you seen 'the deserted station', amst?

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:27 (nineteen years ago) link

no, what's that?

iranian films are HUGE in paris. there were often 10 of them in theaters at once. i had a hard time following all the new releases. inevitably the euphoria of first disocovery has worn off a bit, and i've seen a few that didn't impress me at all.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:39 (nineteen years ago) link

something about the mobius-strip construction bugged me a bit, it seemed a little pat as a narrative device. but that's sort of a minor cavil. most scenes had an exciting, revelatory quality. esp. when hussein gets detained outside the party and offers his pizza to the others waiting outside, including the very young soldier.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:40 (nineteen years ago) link

'the deserted station' was released this year (?? maybe last), it's based on a short story of abbas kiarostami's and it stars (the outstanding) (the beautiful) leila hatami who takes charge of a town school while the resident mayor-teacher-mechanic helps fix her husband's car. I saw it around the time I saw 'crimson gold', I fell in love with hatami.

cºzen (Cozen), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:43 (nineteen years ago) link

The other book I read ended by saying Iranian films were starting to seek approval from international audiences and were therefore losing their bite. Judging from the last couple I've seen, he was right. And I thought he was just a moaning minnie when I read it. No doubt there are still good films, but it's no longer a near-guarantee of quality.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 2 September 2004 16:45 (nineteen years ago) link

International festival audiences or international mainstreamish-arthouse-hybrid audiences? There's a world of difference, I'm to understand, between say Crimson Gold and Children of Heaven.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:27 (nineteen years ago) link

The other book I read ended by saying Iranian films were starting to seek approval from international audiences and were therefore losing their bite.

i don't think the second part of this sentence follows from the first

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:29 (nineteen years ago) link

I like the notion that, at first, Iranian films were implicitly fleeing from int. audience's approval.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:34 (nineteen years ago) link

the story of iranian art cinema's appearance and success in the west is long and complicated and involves the french.

amateur!!st, Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:36 (nineteen years ago) link

involves the french

As does everything involved in film.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:38 (nineteen years ago) link

What do people think of Close-Up? that's a wild one. Kiarostami is brilliant.

Reed Moore (diamond), Thursday, 2 September 2004 18:41 (nineteen years ago) link

It's the author's argument, not mine. I didn't agree with it at first, in fact I thought he was as mad as some of you seem to think I am, but now I think he might have a point. They weren't fleeing from international approval, but their funding didn't rely on acceptance at Cannes or wherever. I've had a look for the book but I haven't got it here. The cover is black.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Thursday, 2 September 2004 19:10 (nineteen years ago) link

eight months pass...
kiarostami though!

cozen (Cozen), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:30 (eighteen years ago) link

Fave Iranian film: Mohsen Makhmalbaf's A Moment of Innocence (aka The Bread and the Vase) (c. 1996)

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 5 May 2005 19:42 (eighteen years ago) link

seeing CLose-up really makes me want to see a Makhmalbaf movie.

A Nairn (moretap), Thursday, 5 May 2005 20:21 (eighteen years ago) link

A Moment of Innocence is getting a R1 DVD release in June!

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Friday, 6 May 2005 04:34 (eighteen years ago) link

There is a Channel 4 season starting next week, innit.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Friday, 6 May 2005 09:21 (eighteen years ago) link

there is a lot of bollocks spoken about kiarostami.

N_RQ, Friday, 6 May 2005 09:30 (eighteen years ago) link

such as?

the insert to the bfi VHS?

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link

nanni moretti?

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link

"postmodern layers"?

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:45 (eighteen years ago) link

'ultra-realism' according to channel 4. actually, i just don't see the genius. i don't think he's all that great. fuck it.and i've never read anything that's convinced me otherwise.

N_RQ, Friday, 6 May 2005 13:49 (eighteen years ago) link

"ultra-realism" seems like a bit of a silly misnomer.

cozen (Cozen), Friday, 6 May 2005 13:55 (eighteen years ago) link

it's just one of those things I Don't Get is all. plus AK himself seems a bit of a pompous chap. it's not like i actively dislike his stuff (well, '10' and 'a taste of cherry' were trying) but the new one, '5'... it looks like bad brakhage or something. wtf?

N_RQ, Friday, 6 May 2005 13:58 (eighteen years ago) link

Very enjoyable documentary last night, I had never seen any of The Cow, or any of the directors, except Abbas K.

Sadly, my video is connected wrong, so I can't tape the overwhelming feast of films that C4 have lined up.

I get a lot of lines on the screen. I'm sure it's something very simple. Perhaps one of you will know what to do. Innit.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Favourite Iranian director is Rakhshan Bani Etemad, whose films seem to put paid to the lie that Iran will censor anything but a sweetly allegorical film about kiddies. Her film Under The Skin Of The City is a really good family/drugs/love story which takes place ina modern Tehran rather than some very pretty, nicely primitive bit of the countryside. I have found Kiarostami to be dull and patronising both to his subject AND his audience (who admittedly are mor ethan happy to lap up the myth that the Middle East might as well developmentally be called the Middle Ages).

I said I liked Ten way up there. Its now one of my least favourite films on a second viewing. It completely panders to a western liberla view of the problems of Iranian society.

Pete (Pete), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:13 (eighteen years ago) link

i'm not a fan of AK. i haven't seen the film pete mentioned. a few years ago i pitched a piece to the nu statesman on the political position of iranian films, ie the hassle iranian directors had experienced in the states + the exoticism that tends to accompany any discussion of iranian cinema, which the trailers on c4 have played up. more recently people have used iranian films to find out about iranian society. but most of the iranian films on show in england, or AK's, are postmodern exercises in telling you that you can't infer anything about reality froma film. etc.

anyway, the staggers rejected the article itself, which i ended up putting on a webzine somewhere, last summer. part of the ns's problem was the idea of iranian film -- like it was too far out.

and this is what bugs me: c4 saying 'the iranians are coming'. last night was the first time an AK film has been shown on ttv here. it's absurd, this timelag in film culture.

roll on the taiwanese cinema season in 2008.

N_RQ, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:25 (eighteen years ago) link

There was a bit on that programme about hiow the (Shah's?) government made thme put a caption on a film stating that that kind of poverty no longer exists in Iran.

I haven't seen all the Abbas K films, but they all seem to involve non-medieval things like film crews and 4x4s, and I've never felt patronised. Perhaps I should TRY HARDER.

I have Ten on a laser disc. I will watch it one day.

I like the way all these films seem to lead into other films.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:26 (eighteen years ago) link

It's like waiting for a bus, isn't it? Two come along at once, and one of them is really old. And they interview the driver at length.

I don't see anything po-mo in these films.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:30 (eighteen years ago) link

not po-mo as in david byrne, but the self-reflexivity of 'a moment of innocence' or 'through the olive trees' or 'a taste of cherry'. 'olive trees' i think is especially weak, it'sthe kind of humour that gets called 'charming'. ge0ff andr3w at cannes last year described ak's '10 on 10' and '5' as being like being "aplshed with cool water" after the searing heat of the other entrants, meaning the films' austerity was good counterpoint to [whatever else was on at cannes]. it's this kind of argument that leads me to believe that ak's appeal is really only comprehensible as part of the festival matrix, further a festival culture that both depends on (financially) and defiens itself against (ideologically) "hollywood". without hollywood, ak would seem far less interesting.

N_RQ, Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:38 (eighteen years ago) link

I quite enjoyed the interview - there was an interesting tension between the superstar director returning to the house of the star of 'Where is the house of the friend?'. Although the kid still seemed a bit shellshocked by his fleeting fame (and the director seemed a little smug about the consequences of using non-pro actors) he was evidently a lot less mental than western child stars. I also enjoyed the bit where AK said "being a film director is a lot like making love to a beautiful lady being a football manager". You could imagine him taking over Chelsea if Mourinho ever gets bored.

I found the film a bit boring though.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:40 (eighteen years ago) link

'Olive Trees' was the first one I saw, it 'turned me on' to Iranian films. I knew nothing about it beforehand, it was just a nice film.

You were up very late, Jerry the Nipper.

I tell you what I didn't think was very good, and that's Catterick. After which I went to bed until the 1.30 yodelling practice.

PJ Miller (PJ Miller), Tuesday, 10 May 2005 09:47 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh well. I think the DC Film Fest offerings may also be available for viewers in Houston, Texas and Boston, Mass via museums there. Bandar Band , although flawed, is worth seeing as is Dance w/ Me.

I still have lots of old Iranian new wave films to see.

curmudgeon, Saturday, 6 February 2021 20:40 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

Just watched Crimson Gold as it was expiring from Criterion and really glad I did. Here is some discussion, including a great Morbius take:
Briefly talk about what you've seen recently

Is the entire thread about Abbas Kiarostami and Jafar Panahi
So it would seem. Apologies for continuing the trend.

Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 1 March 2022 18:50 (two years ago) link

Really enjoyed this, and impressed by implicit political implications, although also, there are a lot of times and places in which you really, really wouldn't want to call the cops, no matter what:
The Salesman (Persian: فروشنده, romanized: Forušande, released in France as Le Client) is a 2016 drama film written and directed by Asghar Farhadi and starring Taraneh Alidoosti and Shahab Hosseini. It is about a married couple who perform Arthur Miller's 1949 play Death of a Salesman on stage. When the wife is assaulted, her husband attempts to determine the identity of the attacker, while she struggles to cope with post-trauma stress. Farhadi chose Miller's play as his story within a story based on shared themes. A co-production between Iran and France, the film was shot in Tehran, beginning in 2015.

The film premiered in competition in the 2016 Cannes Film Festival, where it won two awards—Best Screenplay for Farhadi and Best Actor for Hosseini. The Salesman was very well-received by film critics, who mainly praised Farhadi's direction and writing, and won the Academy Award for Best Foreign Language Film. However, Farhadi did not attend the 89th Academy Awards ceremony in protest of the U.S. Executive Order 13769.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Salesman_(2016_film)

dow, Tuesday, 1 March 2022 21:18 (two years ago) link

implicit implications OK!

dow, Tuesday, 1 March 2022 21:19 (two years ago) link

Been meaning to watch that one. Recently watched this Israeli Apple TV+ production called Tehran, in which the Iranian characters are pretty sympathetic so now have been inspired to (re)watch some actual Iranian movies.

Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 1 March 2022 21:24 (two years ago) link

Tbh I kind of got used to Athens doubling as Tehran so interesting to see how the real place looks. Which is not totally different.

Gary Gets His Tonsure Out (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 1 March 2022 21:25 (two years ago) link

two months pass...

Is the entire thread about Abbas Kiarostami and Jafar Panahi

Now it can be about Jafar’s son, Panah Panahi, as well. Asghar Farhadi too, it seems. Also interested to check out Mohammad Rasoulof and Ballad of a White Cow, directed by Maryam Moghadam and Behtash Sanaeeha.

Wile E. Is President (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 4 May 2022 01:18 (one year ago) link

Lots about Farhadi upthread already.

Wile E. Is President (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 4 May 2022 01:20 (one year ago) link

Anyway, HIT THE ROAD lived up to its trailer and poster.

Wile E. Is President (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 May 2022 11:08 (one year ago) link

Watched About Elly and The Salesman over the weekend. I suppose either The Hero or Fireworks Wednesday is next.

Don't Renege On (Our Dub) (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 16 May 2022 16:19 (one year ago) link

I have lots of catching up to do

curmudgeon, Tuesday, 17 May 2022 13:16 (one year ago) link

The Hero another nail-biter.

Apollo and the Aqueducts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 22 May 2022 20:27 (one year ago) link

https://www.vulture.com/2022/04/asghar-farhadi-sued-plagiarism-a-hero.html

Masihzadeh claimed Farhadi made her sign a document in 2019, before he began production on A Hero, stating that he owned the idea for All Winners, All Losers, which she did “under great pressure.” Farhadi’s lawyer does not dispute the document, saying it clarified that “he was the one who proposed the idea and the plot of the documentary.” His lawyer said he researched the story on his own, based on media coverage; Masihzadeh claims there was little coverage of the incident that inspired her documentary. Relatedly, Farhadi claimed the main character of A Hero, Rahim, is dissimilar to the real-life subject of All Winners, All Losers. One former student from 2011 additionally told The Hollywood Reporter he believed Farhadi made a film based off one of his projects, but did not plan to sue because he “is a genius filmmaker.”

Apollo and the Aqueducts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 May 2022 14:33 (one year ago) link

An interview with Farhadi also on Vulture links to this interesting article: https://www.latimes.com/local/great-reads/la-me-c1-tarof-20150706-story.html

Apollo and the Aqueducts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 May 2022 14:44 (one year ago) link

It seems that the star of About Elly, Golshifteh Farahani, is mostly making films in exile in France these days, including a really terrible love triangle thing I recently tried to watch called Two Friends directed by Alfred's crush Louis Garrel.

Apollo and the Aqueducts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 May 2022 15:23 (one year ago) link

Not the same film, but
Never Coming to a Theater Near You - Arthouse Cinema 2016

Louis Garrel's directorial debut may be the worst feature i've endured in the last several years

― we can be heroes just for about 3.6 seconds (Dr Morbius), Monday, March 7, 2016 2:18 PM (six years ago)

Apollo and the Aqueducts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 23 May 2022 15:25 (one year ago) link

Think my take on Farhadi is close to Bilge Ebiri’s.

Apollo and the Aqueducts (James Redd and the Blecchs), Tuesday, 24 May 2022 01:43 (one year ago) link

really liked About Elly

Dan S, Tuesday, 24 May 2022 01:53 (one year ago) link

five months pass...

Search: The Runner!

Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 14 November 2022 00:48 (one year ago) link

I hadn't heard about the plagiarism case prior to reading that article, but it seemed quite damning. Although this quote from an erstwhile collaborator makes sense:

"If you ask me—as a person who hasn’t seen either ‘A Hero’ or the documentary but just knows the guy extremely well—this is not plagiarism. Asghar is far too intelligent and interesting as an artist, as a writer, to do something like that. This is him wanting control over authorship. It’s a character flaw.”

Everyone in the article is just like "Look, I don't care that you took my idea, just acknowledge that you did it." And he won't.

jaymc, Monday, 14 November 2022 00:55 (one year ago) link

Found that article totally fascinating for the same reason, the fact that other figures in the industry were so willing to go on the record to basically say, "Haha, yeah, of course he passed off her work as 100% his creation, that's just how he is."

intheblanks, Monday, 14 November 2022 03:26 (one year ago) link

Didn’t really read that article until just now and it was indeed fascinating and kind of painful to read. To me it is as if the hero with the “broken smile” of The Hero is kind of an obvious DO U SEE? shadow self for Farhadi.

Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 14 November 2022 06:05 (one year ago) link

Bahram Beyzaeie's Downpour, on the third World Cinema Project box, is a really excellent comedy.

Daniel_Rf, Monday, 14 November 2022 11:23 (one year ago) link

Are you saying that because you know he edited The Runner?

Me and the Major on the Moon (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 14 November 2022 11:56 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

New Jafar Panahi is good, believe the hype!

A Kestrel for a Neve (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 1 January 2023 05:12 (one year ago) link

one month passes...

Panahi on hunger strike. This is sickening!

xyzzzz__, Friday, 3 February 2023 15:27 (one year ago) link

it's pretty horrible.

And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 15:33 (one year ago) link

Apparently he's just been released from jail?

Halfway there but for you, Friday, 3 February 2023 18:25 (one year ago) link

Great news!

And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:27 (one year ago) link

Now what about Mohammad Rasoulof?

And Your Borad Can Zing (James Redd and the Blecchs), Friday, 3 February 2023 18:28 (one year ago) link

Rasoulof has apparently been out for a month: https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/feb/03/iranian-film-maker-jafar-panahi-released-on-bail-after-hunger-strike

Frederik B, Friday, 3 February 2023 19:19 (one year ago) link

About to watch Samira Makhmalbaf’s THE APPLE and came across this about her dad’s little film school which she attended:
https://www.sensesofcinema.com/2002/filmmaker-profiles/makhmalbaf/

The Windows of the URL (James Redd and the Blecchs), Sunday, 12 February 2023 20:40 (one year ago) link

Not an Iranian film, but Golshifteh Farahani is really good in the film known in English as ARAB BLUES.

after the pinefox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 00:39 (one year ago) link

Movie is kind of broad and she plays a French-Tunisian rather thn a French-Irani but her perfomance is still good.

after the pinefox (James Redd and the Blecchs), Wednesday, 15 February 2023 00:59 (one year ago) link

three weeks pass...

Just finally watched Rasoulof’s There Is No Evil before it leaves MUBI. It is indeed very long but the first and last sections both make it worth your time.

Think Fast, Mr. Mojo Risin’ (James Redd and the Blecchs), Saturday, 11 March 2023 06:10 (one year ago) link


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