The Darkness

This thread has reminded me to download "You Said No" so thanks.

This seems to be a point where our opinions can converge and our tastes simultaneoulsy diverge then Tom - I'd no more listen to Busted than I would The Darkness!

The one remaining bone of contention however remains that I would say that both Busted and the majority of their fans know exactly what they are - a teeny pop band pretending to be a "real" band for a laugh - and they're grinning all over their stupid faces as they play dress-up. The Darkness on the other hand genuinely seem to be suffering from the delusion that they really are a rock band....

I am only excluding swingtime robbie. also robbie is not a regular case cos he could release drum and bass made with biscuit tins and elastic bands and still sell out the moon for 12 nights running.

SHUT UP A BAND I DON'T LIKE ARE ROCK OK?

Are we getting into the realms of the essential difference between pop and rock now? e.g. Rock is still trying to come to terms that it's longevity and increasing maturity and (rightly or wrongly) is wanting to be taken seriously; whereas Pop is fully aware that it is inherently and by definition completely ephemeral and consequently doesn't care?

Why not? I mean, most of Discovery is house AND pop simultaneously, just like Beyonce is rnb and pop simultaneously. I think the problem to an extent lies in your definition of pop as 'urban' for two main reasons.

1. It excludes Will Young, Gareth Gates, Martine McCutcheon, David Sneddon etc etc.

2. It relies on an FT/ILM enforced pop canon which I suspect includes Beyonce and Nelly and Justin Timberlake and the Sugababes or whoever, but just doesn't exist in the real pop-listening world - ie the world of Capital FM, basically, which is just as likely to contain Queen and Mike and the Mechanics and Coldplay and whoever thrown in as well.

3. Pop is more an umbrella term than a recognisable genre.

Are we getting into the realms of the essential difference between pop and rock now? e.g. Rock is still trying to come to terms that it's longevity and increasing maturity and (rightly or wrongly) is wanting to be taken seriously; whereas Pop is fully aware that it is inherently and by definition completely ephemeral and consequently doesn't care?

I think this definition is rubbish. Wet Wet Wet probably took/take themselves far more seriously as ARTISTS than The Darkness.

Ronan, I can sympathise with your desire for clearly defined boundaries - maybe again that's part of the reason why I don't like The Darkness OR Busted OR Robbie....

This is why the pop/rock dichotomy doesn't make sense.

I didn't offer it as a definition Matt, it very clearly isn't even attempting to be a definition, just one of the differences that have arisen between Rock and Pop as the two have diverged.

Matt Capital Radio thank heaven never play Mike And The Mechanics any more. I think there's a kind of hidden war between Capital Radio and its audience though, even more so than with R1 - CR want to be a modern up-to-date pop station that plays Sean Paul a lot and whenever it does its top 500 songs it's all Bo Rap and Careless Whisper.

We can only hope they did "Get Your Hands Off My Woman".

It just feels a bit cosy to me, they don't sound like Beyonce or Jay Z, they sound like a clunky old metal band and I don't think anyone who's really into modern pop music is being obtuse by not liking them, they're an eccentricity if anything. I suppose I also feel what's the point of establishing them as pop music. Similarly you could argue what's the point of establishing them as rock music, and I'd have to say cos it's not really fair to the genre of music they're in to appropriate them as pop, cos once you do, inevitably it becomes a way to ignore the fact that you love a rock band.

I sometimes feel like this about your 2 Many DJs stuff aswell Tom, given the dance records they play aren't really massive hits all the time, and 2 Many DJs had so much electro I often felt they were a dance act. I know I was the one moaning about the principle of them playing all the rock songs, I've kind of given up on that now, though I still think indie-disco is a little too much of an oversight and an affront to soulgrabber, vitalic, alan braxe, daft punk (bearing in mind they tend to choose rollin' and scratchin'), none of which would really go down well in any indie disco except perhaps Alan Braxe. Perhaps.

This is true, of course. Although I don't like Coldplay and still consider them pop, probably more than I do Jay-Z. But then again as I've mentioned I define current pop by what's on the shelves at Tesco's at any given time.

I can certainly see The Darkness playing the Smash Hits Pollwinners Party this year though.

I think Matt is pretty much OTM here. I think The Darkness are pop in the sense that they are drawing on the tradition of Queen through Def Leppard - which may be the most popular export (in terms of sales figures) British music has ever had? They are pop in the same way that 'Jump' by Van Halen is a great pop single.

Unfortunately, they are really bad pop. Really, my argument against them has little to do with how seriously they take themselves - it's to do with the fact that their music is just plain bad bad bad and lost what little comedy value it once possessed after approximately three listens.

On a largely unrelated note jumping off from Stevie's point - have the Darkness released any records or played any gigs in America yet? Surely they have the potential to become more successful over there than any British act except possibly Radiohead in over 10 years?

Perhaps house=indie disco all along? god I hope not. I better grow my hair again.

fatboy slim, housemartins, jacques lu cont, zoot woman, felix? well, felix.

Curses it's a continuum, Ricardissimo is right.

I phoned Mike T and he agreed it was ridiculous.

I swear the next time I DJ it will be under this pseudonym.