US POLITICS: AMERICANS, PLEASE WELCOME YOUR NEW PRESIDENT... SCOTT BROWN!

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Steve Hackett imo

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Saturday, 13 February 2010 03:52 (fourteen years ago) link

John Wetton fer veep.

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 February 2010 04:04 (fourteen years ago) link

A lot of this depends on who's using the term liberal. I don't think the clintons ever embraced the word liberal and in the 90s were demonized for being "liberals" in the same way Obama is called a "socialist" today by the right wing.

So Hillary calls herself a "progressive" because she thinks being called a liberal is politically poisonous. She's not trying to look more left than she is. She basically spent 14 years (94- 2008) trying to look as conservative as possible b/c that's how she thought she'd get elected president.

It just seems to me that in mainstream political discourse the term "liberal" was jettisoned in favor of "progressive" not because the term "liberal" was seen as insufficiently left-wing, but because it had been sufficiently demonized. "Progressive" is a just a neat way for democratic politicians to claim that they are not in fact liberals while winking at the liberals in the electorate. It'd be like a dog-whistle if it were true, but the results seem more like a con.

Meanwhile a lot of us on the bona fide left think of liberals as too squishy (think phil ochs "love me I'm a liberal") and don't identify with it because liberalism is too centrist and compromising an approach. Some genuinely prefer "progressive" I suppose. I prefer to be called a socialist, because thats the ideology closest to my beliefs.

Mister Jim, Saturday, 13 February 2010 04:09 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah i guess you're right, it does have two meanings i just never thought of the mainstream democratic politician meaning being more common. probably because of my age tbh.

harbl, Saturday, 13 February 2010 04:17 (fourteen years ago) link

ie OLD

vag gangsta (k3vin k.), Saturday, 13 February 2010 04:39 (fourteen years ago) link

Bill Clinton, at the nadir of his presidency, finally realized his mission. "I'm going to serve as an Eisenhower Republican"! he fumed.

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 February 2010 04:41 (fourteen years ago) link

i'm only old compared to k3v

harbl, Saturday, 13 February 2010 04:50 (fourteen years ago) link

in mainstream political discourse the term "liberal" was jettisoned in favor of "progressive" not because the term "liberal" was seen as insufficiently left-wing, but because it had been sufficiently demonized.

totally otm. i grew up during the reagan presidency. the contrast in how us citizens perceived the carter and reagan presidencies ("weak, apologetic, and ineffective" v. "strong, unapologetic, and effective," basically) had a lot to do with making "liberal" -- i.e., left of the most-centerist democrats -- toxic. i think it's been that way since, except perhaps during the last election cycle.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 13 February 2010 13:01 (fourteen years ago) link

"us" = "U.S."

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 13 February 2010 13:02 (fourteen years ago) link

It never ceases to amaze me how the definitions of words can become completely disassociated from what they really mean in the minds of Americans who don't pay much attention to the issues driving the discourse, but are left with spin.

extra awesome blossom (suzy), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:02 (fourteen years ago) link

i would love to see the weird american definition of 'liberal' eliminated from our political discourse

max, Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:05 (fourteen years ago) link

wait, why? which weird definition do you mean?

hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:11 (fourteen years ago) link

"liberal" = Communist douche

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:14 (fourteen years ago) link

it just bugs me that 'liberal' means something different in most other english-speaking countries

max, Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link

Hell, "conservative" means something else in England.

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:17 (fourteen years ago) link

really it bugs me that 'liberal' has got a good fairly specific useful meaning on its own thats been co-opted here to essentially mean 'nonspecific left-wing'

max, Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:19 (fourteen years ago) link

"liberal" = Communist douche

i don't think that's the perception. "Communist douche" sounds like a possible tough-guy. i'd say the perception is more "liberal" = bleeding-hearted, weak sissies.

Daniel, Esq., Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:21 (fourteen years ago) link

tho i understand that its not really up to me and its not like the european def. of 'liberal' is "correct" or anything

max, Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:21 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah i mean i know what you mean, but at the same time i think the word serves (or has served) a useful purpose in staking out sort of moderate-left ground in the u.s. we don't have "social democrats" or whatever else might apply

hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:26 (fourteen years ago) link

i've always self-identified as a liberal, because i don't identify as a socialist (or "a democrat," for that matter), so there's not much else for me to lean on as shorthand.

hellzapoppa (tipsy mothra), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:27 (fourteen years ago) link

Yeah in America 'liberal' comes with a silent 'bleeding heart. It is much like the situation with feminism, where someone reflexively against the idea of the hairy armpit is presented with single statements such as 'a paid job done by equally qualified individuals should be equally compensated y/n' which they are all 'y' with and then you tell them they're a feminist whether they want to believe it or not, so please stop complaining about what other women want.

extra awesome blossom (suzy), Saturday, 13 February 2010 14:45 (fourteen years ago) link

The joke about the Carter/Reagan paradigm, of course, is that Jimmy was just a defense-boondoggle, Central American- and Iranian-dictator-lovin' imperialist who liked to smilingly lie "I'll never tell a lie" -- hence a "liberal."

Fusty Moralizer (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 13 February 2010 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link

Why it matters how we talk about abortion coverage in health care, at my local, fucking painful-to-think-about level.

Years of softening the position in order to gain traction/get compromises results in shit like this, and will continue to do so. Thanks, everybody for whom reproductive health is a nifty bargaining chip. I'm sure the women of Wake County appreciate you as much as I do. Please note that I'm linking the article from when they were considering it, but now it's a done deal.

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Saturday, 13 February 2010 15:34 (fourteen years ago) link

reading that article makes it sound like its pretty unlikely that abortion cov'g will be taken away?

max, Saturday, 13 February 2010 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link

oh sorry missed your last sentence

max, Saturday, 13 February 2010 15:36 (fourteen years ago) link

note the "update" at the top of the article

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Saturday, 13 February 2010 15:37 (fourteen years ago) link

Wake's Republican commissioners raised the abortion issue after it debuted in Apex. There, a Republican town council led by Mayor Keith Weatherly voted in mid-January to eliminate coverage for abortions, unless they were deemed medically necessary for the health of the mother.

As The Cary News reported, while the issue in Apex "was couched initially as a decision of fiscal responsibility, moral and political undertones loomed large." Weatherly was quoted in the newspaper as saying, "Apex can't actually prohibit abortions, whether it's for an employee or not. But our plan can."

Weatherly, who worked for strident choice foe Jesse Helms years ago, now is an assistant to N.C. House Minority Leader Paul Stam, R-Wake, an opponent of abortion rights throughout his career.

Stam's role in the Apex and Wake County maneuvers isn't clear. He refused to be interviewed by the Indy.

But Stam's Twitter feeds indicate that he's been closely following the national debate on health insurance, so doubtless he's aware of the Stupak-Pitts Amendment, which would make it illegal for any insurance plan to cover elective abortions if the federal government subsidized the purchase of the plan in any way.

This is why, when the president makes a point of assuring the GOP that abortion won't be included in federal health care, it matters. These are the results of moderate slow-progress Democrats deciding that the right to choose is negotiable within health care.

It makes me angry.

Lee Dorrian Gray (J0hn D.), Saturday, 13 February 2010 15:41 (fourteen years ago) link

I don't see why the discourse should be restricted to liberal, conservative, and the degrees in between (centrist, left-center, right-center, lukewarmish-center, etc).

Because then it would be less easy to control political discourse. For the most part all those terms work towards describing a remarkably narrow set of political beliefs while giving the inverse impression by polarizing. Note how 'bleeding heart liberals' don't mind continuing the War On Terror, and 'neocons' vote for giant socialist bailouts for banks.

Adam Bruneau, Saturday, 13 February 2010 21:03 (fourteen years ago) link

I guess that statement belongs in the "Are Democrats and Republicans The Same?" thread...

Adam Bruneau, Saturday, 13 February 2010 21:04 (fourteen years ago) link

it would be best for the democratic party and everyone in general if evan bayh was voted out of office in november, frankly

― max, Tuesday, January 26, 2010 5:48 PM (2 weeks ago) Bookmark

looks like your wish that Bayh leave is about to come true

there can be only but steam that smells of shit and weaklingness (Eisbaer), Monday, 15 February 2010 16:14 (fourteen years ago) link

So long motherfucker.

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 15 February 2010 16:16 (fourteen years ago) link

What an absolute bitchnose.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 15 February 2010 16:22 (fourteen years ago) link

"Congress is... hard"

Tracer Hand, Monday, 15 February 2010 16:22 (fourteen years ago) link

Fucking the Democrats twice-over even as he retires:

http://www.swingstateproject.com/diary/6407/insen-bayh-retiring

carson dial, Monday, 15 February 2010 16:23 (fourteen years ago) link

i wonder why he isn't running. that line about "i can do more meaningful work outside of congress" is a pile of nonsense. he is a bland, robotic political operative. and he's a moderate, so it isn't like he's all for a hard-left agenda that's been frustrated by the gop.

democrats' chances in 2010 must be worse than even the typical midterm election cycle.

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 15 February 2010 16:25 (fourteen years ago) link

He was running as late as last week, so this is sudden and very very fishy. Another IN Dem has to file by Friday to run for that seat. What a selfish douche.

extra awesome blossom (suzy), Monday, 15 February 2010 16:26 (fourteen years ago) link

OR MAYBE AN EXCITING SEX SCANDAL IS ON THE HORIZON

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 15 February 2010 16:27 (fourteen years ago) link

EVAN BAYH <3 HOOKERS

Tracer Hand, Monday, 15 February 2010 16:28 (fourteen years ago) link

hard to tell whether bayh is fucking over the democratic party more when hes in the senate or when hes not in the senate imo

max, Monday, 15 February 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link

purge all the Bayh types

Fusty Moralizer (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 February 2010 17:14 (fourteen years ago) link

man it's like that great moderate middle... doesn't even exist. what has david broder been telling me?

goole, Monday, 15 February 2010 17:16 (fourteen years ago) link

purge all the Bayh types

you are either with us or against us

I Am Lord Al's Bitch aka the Village Idiot (Dandy Don Weiner), Monday, 15 February 2010 17:29 (fourteen years ago) link

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2010/02/more_weirdness.php

goole, Monday, 15 February 2010 17:32 (fourteen years ago) link

heckuva job, bahyie

goole, Monday, 15 February 2010 17:33 (fourteen years ago) link

WHO WILL THE INDIANA DEMOCRATIC PARTY NOMINATE?

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 15 February 2010 17:33 (fourteen years ago) link

so does this mean that barring a big swing in public opinion or the economy, GOP is favored to take the senate?

max, Monday, 15 February 2010 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link

He's the one with a wife running a major health insurance thing, yes?

extra awesome blossom (suzy), Monday, 15 February 2010 17:34 (fourteen years ago) link

so does this mean that barring a big swing in public opinion or the economy, GOP is favored to take the senate?

that would take a 20-seat swing for the gop, i believe. not sure how big a swing that is, historically, for the party in power during an off-year election.

Daniel, Esq., Monday, 15 February 2010 17:36 (fourteen years ago) link

oh man, feel the genius here

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=YjZhNmU5ZjEzMGJkZmQ3ZGE0OWU3YzJjM2FjZDJmZTQ=

goole, Monday, 15 February 2010 17:36 (fourteen years ago) link

One of Goldberg's readers shows as much acumen:

Hi Jonah,

I know things are looking bad for the Dems right now but I would have thought Bayh had a secure seat. Any chance he wants to lay low for this election cycle and then challenge Obama in 2012? As Democrats go, Bayh occasionally shows a bit of common sense (and winning in Indiana suggests the voters think so to).

If 2010 turns out to be a bigger wipeout than 1994 then Obama will face a challenger. Bayh could point to his record of warning fellow Democrats of the mistakes Obama was making and a 2010 debacle would suggest he was right. I don't know if he could defeat Obama in a primary challenge but he could have a shot, especially in states with open primaries and states with a a more moderate (i.e. White) base. Running as the savior of a party must have some appeal to Bayh.

This stuff is better than following sports. I hope you and your family are doing well.

Inculcate a spirit of serfdom in children (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Monday, 15 February 2010 17:45 (fourteen years ago) link


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