A new list to rip to shreds: Maxim's 30 Worst Albums of all Time.

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what - specific word choice? show me three posts where you criticise their word choice and not the "stance" itself

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:48 (twenty years ago) link

What's with the snipe-fest? (a) Alex always does that, he's practically an "I'm rubber you're glue" type, and he knows it's funny and sometimes it actually is. (b) Jockiness now has pretensions to sophistication and irony, it's impossible to ignore. (c) Hip-hop is internationally powerful in a huge way but it's a mighty stretch to call it "the most popular music on Earth," at least if you actually count the bits of the Earth where all the people live. (d) Am I the only one who read what Amateurist actually said about Eddy? I don't know enough about Eddy to agree or disagree with it, and I think he might just come across the way Amateurist thinks he does on ILM more so than in his work, but in any case I'm not sure he said what some people are saying he said.

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:48 (twenty years ago) link

cuz, no offense, but if you're still saying you've never impugned the sincerity of their tastes then you're more full of shit than you accuse them of being.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link

crazy x-posts. i can't prove a negative blount!

i like most of the music sterling and eddy are talking about. well, much of it. i can see 1,000 reasons why they might like it. it's just that it *seems* (perhaps simply to my own paranoid eyes) that they sometimes fail to extricate their like for the music from their desire to make a statement about the value of disposable/etc. Pop Music also that their critiques need to adopt a jocular quality. It strikes me as unduly defensive. but i totally buy that they like the music!

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:49 (twenty years ago) link

amateurist ive asked you this a couple times already but can you really not see the fun in playing with what people think critics will normally say, if you like something that happens to fall outside the crit consensus (and most people do) using your power as a music critic to hoist it against that consensus is a really interesting and joyous way to write about it!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

like, what 'approved' reasons do you have for liking music that are more worthy than chuck or sterlings??

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link

I'm not asking you to prove a negative - I'm asking you to show me three posts you've written directed at chuck eddy where you don't impugn the sincerity of his taste.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

if they do what you say they do, which i think is hardly the case usually though i havent read chuck

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

aaahhh! xpost mania 2003!

trife, i hear you, but i still think you're jumping way ahead of things here. talking about how hip-hop is getting fucked over by the usual-suspects classic-rock records seems backwards considering the source of this thread.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:52 (twenty years ago) link

trife: except that railing against a perceived consensus can be a distraction... one can become the shadow of what one is opposing.

and i think chuck denies anyhow that he's doing any railing really so i'm not sure you and him are on the same page. and he may be right, i may be judging his body of work on the evidence of a small and uncharacteristic sample thereof.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:53 (twenty years ago) link

You know all this is stored here fr eternity, right?

― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link

I mean, I can show you three posts I written directed at you where I don't ask you to show me three posts you've written directed at chuck eddy where you don't impugn the sincerity of his taste, so I don't see why it's so difficult, especially if you've never done it. If you've never done it just show me three posts you written directed at chuck eddy. how bout this - show me three where you don't use the word 'schtick'.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link

ilm too in compulsive listmaking and the idea that there is 'bad' music,

i seem to remember someone telling me I listen to 'shitty' hip hop. Hmmm, who was that?

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:55 (twenty years ago) link

james as i do not feel that i have ever questioned the sincerity of mr eddy's opinions you can look at any random two posts from me. also i'm confident there are several posts above in which i do not use the word "shtick."

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, that idea doesn't wash at all--of course there's bad music, what that bad music happens to be depends on who's doing the defining

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:56 (twenty years ago) link

matos if you mean maxim their top choice was picked because it performs sacrilegious covers on the 'perfect' beatles catalogue!! maxim jocks the rolling stones --> clash --> nu garage stance as much as mojo or whatever!! maybe its good because it keeps hiphop from being boring mojo style 'history', nothings worse than 'classic' hiphop crit ie public enemy rakim bdp run dmc etc but i want obsessive track-by-tracks of harlem world still!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

matos - I think trife has a point, in that he notes this list resembles every other rockcrit list, and takes issue with one of the characteristics of said lists ie. a certain degree of, what's the word, "rockism" (don't bother amateurist, it's not in the OED), and that in 2000 (not to mention 2003) this sorta tendency is increasingly indefensible.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link

Wow. Take some time off to go do some grocery shopping and this thread takes off! Huzzah! I meant no real disrespect to Nabisco, by the way.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link

trife, that's not Sgt Peppers by the Beatles, that's the soundtrack from the movie the Bee-Gees made.

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

show me where to look amateurist - cuz I aint' finding nothing but your usual (bippity boppity boo) schtick

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

oops - he knows that

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 21:59 (twenty years ago) link

also david allen even though youve obv never read maxim do you hate beer and women?!!?!
-- trife (...), July 8th, 2003.

When I went to summer camp, my father sent me Maxim every single week. I still have no clue why, probably to make sure that 4 weeks of being in a small cabin in the middle of nowhere with 10 other guys wouldn't make me gay. So yeah, the stupid "YOU DON'T KNOW ME" style defense doesn't quite fit.

― David Allen, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

hence "check their very uncool beatles dicksuck hating on the sgt peppers soundtrack and ono box!!"

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

never mind me, i can't read

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

the bad music thing was worded wrong, i think writing about 'bad' music or 'worst' albums is only interesting if its something youve engaged in, ie oops im sorry but i love hiphop and ive tried a lot of 'weird' def jux kool keith etc and it sounds really bad to me, the maxim list wouldve been better with more self-hating alt rock/oasis and less streisand/yanni/tesh

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

the thing with these lists is they never actually have the balls to go after anyone who they might need to return their phone calls

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link

and dont tell me ilm isnt the arcanists version of maxims 'quality' music taste guide!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:02 (twenty years ago) link

I mean - ooh, they dissed Yoko Ono - better whatcha back Maxim!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:03 (twenty years ago) link

yeah for real, like the world has really been waiting for someone to stick it to ricky martin!! hes gone critically unscathed for TOO LONG!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:04 (twenty years ago) link

Trife, how is what you're saying about 'ILM' any different from what anyone else says about how this place supposedly has a 'mafia' or whatever controlling it?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:04 (twenty years ago) link

nothing is sacrilegous but the beatles catalogue is pretty fucking amazing and the ost is totally fucking horrible! ("Come Together" and "Got to Get You Into My Life" excepted.) we can be as at the end of history as you want to be--and again, are now more so than than when the list came out, I'll say it again *three years ago*--but why is any of this *surprising* to you?! maxim isn't where you go to be surprised by anything, from the models to the subjects being written about to the critics' tastes. boilerplate boilerplate boilerplate. sure you've got points, and i agree w/them, but it's like, as you almost put it, doing the same w/Mojo.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:05 (twenty years ago) link

trife - have you ever seen blender's (same mag/"brain"trust) lists? cuz they're not the completely staid vh1 usual suspects writ in (rolling) stone type lists (the one I saw at least)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:05 (twenty years ago) link

i mean, i understand/respect/agree w/much of your passion but it's being mislaid here

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:06 (twenty years ago) link

I can name plenty of albums worse than the Sgt. Pepper's OST (Conor Oberst to thread!)

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:06 (twenty years ago) link

I'm trying to remember if the Alice Cooper number was halfway listenable

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:07 (twenty years ago) link

not the same brain trust outside the publishers, though! whatever my (very real) objections to Blender the people there do know music pretty well and i was genuinely impressed with some of their pix in that 500 essential cds thing they did a bit back (Shakira cover? i forget)--The Kings & QUeens of Township Jive and not Indestructible Beat, interesting and actually sort of right (K&Q is more fun than IB though I love both about equally).

and you will NOT EVER see me defending Conor Oberst so don't even try to pull that card Blount!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

"Because," James, yes....and I stated as much earlier....but who was listening to me, eh? NO ONE apparently. Same as usual.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

and really, there may be worse records than the ost but how many of 'em do you actually want to hear?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

so is it, ah, worth taking apart the individual items on the list and whats said about them, or should we stick to sticking it to maxims puckishness?

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

exactly!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

I thought Blender and Maxim had the same braintrust?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

well yeah its not surprising but frankly i do expect a lot more from maxim than mojo!! if you want to talk about a newer use-other-words thing what about the bullshit about biggie putting out more stuff dead than when he was alive, first i dont even think thats technically true unless you count life after death and he was alive for the recording and mastering of that, but even if so is there any famous artist who died in their prime and then their label just like cut off their distribution entirely? this certainly isnt even true for maxims precious beatles!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

fck its hard to keep up here.

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:11 (twenty years ago) link

i think all the invective i earned on this thread is just karma. i was rude and very troll-esque in my first posts to this thread.

i shall henceforth obey thumper's law.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:11 (twenty years ago) link

ha - I spent last night listening to Beatles albums backwards - get outta my head George Martin!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:12 (twenty years ago) link

(trife: FYI, i don't like much Def Jux stuff either. although I Phantom is pretty damn good. but yeah, i prolly listen to some hip hop you would consider shitty--and vice versa, but it's only a portion of the hip hop i listen to)(basically, i think you have a narrow view of what hip hop is/can be)

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link

Jeezum. At this rate, this thread might rival the notorious Dave Matthews Band thread!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:15 (twenty years ago) link

yeah again sorry oops i dont even really know what youre into, i like lots of undie stuff so its not about what it can or should be i just usually dont think underground stuff does 'it' well

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:18 (twenty years ago) link

trife if you ever do start djing you gotta play beatles albums backwards - it will go over very well in athens.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:19 (twenty years ago) link

Even more so in Sparta.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link

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