US POLITICS: AMERICANS, PLEASE WELCOME YOUR NEW PRESIDENT... SCOTT BROWN!

I like how some posts immediately prompt an image search

some dude in a basement at Google's wondering why there's a sudden spike on GIS for "multiple televisions"

fwiw they do not belong to me

poor max.

http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/cultureshock/flashpoints/theater/images/clockwork_big.jpg

Mine was: 'man who fell to earth televisions'

Newton could fix health care.

glad this thread is back to bringing the lolz!

I'M HAPPY, HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY TOO

ILX political threads: giddy with health-care reform.

i have two gigantic - like 60-inch - flatscreens in my office that have been there for 2+ years and have never been turned on to my knowledge. i asked someone about them once and he was like "yeah.. it's just.. yeah, i don't know"

GOP: Scary Monsters, Supercreeps.

its kinda sad watching how effective the GOP obstructionist machine is, especially in the Senate. If only the Democrats had acted like this when Dubya was in office, we might not have actually had the Bush tax cuts or invaded Iraq or started torturing people or passed the Patriot Act etc etc

i can't see how that machine will succeed now, or even get traction with its messaging. the CBO score is devestating to their position, no? i mean, they can still argue that the initial outlay of funds will break our backs ("and for what? a new entitlement," i suppose they'll say). but they'll be unable to actually dispute -- or even seriously challenge -- the CBO's scoring.

its all procedural shit at this point, positions/ideology/arguments/logic has nothing to do with it. They do not want anything to pass, doesn't matter what it is, and jokers like Thune are going to be sure the Senate uses every single arcane Senate rule at their disposal to make passage as difficult as possible.

like, its not even really about votes at this point, its about stalling the measure's final passage as long as possible. death by a million cuts, etc.

yeah, sure, but the CBO score (a) will give a lot of wavering democrats cover to confidently vote for this bill and (b) will take the sting out of GOP criticisms that it's too expensive (other than that "initial outlay" argument i set forth above).

basically i think the CBO score is a powerful weapon for democrats -- now and in november -- so i expect republican officials to be (even more) wild-eyed crazy at this point forward.

(unless the GOP succeeds with it's canard that this bill is gutting medicare. i guess that's another avenue for them to complaint about.)

GOP: staunch in their support for the status quo of budget-busting socialized medicine.

fact: most Americans don't even know or care what the CBO is. really all that matters is how the bill is spun in the press (which is currently "HCR WILL COST $40 BILLION!"). But again, this stuff is secondary - I think its a foregone conclusion that this will pass the House. But if the Senate GOP presents enough procedural challenges to the bill that require it going back to the House for yet another vote... I mean, this is a war of attrition. the GOP knows the longer this drags on, the harder it will be to get passed, so all arguments pro/con aside, this is now more a game of legal and procedural maneuvering.

My mom totally knows what the CBO is and so do her friends. After my interview I have to call her to spill the Weir guts and I am anticipating an earful of something, certainly, but I'm not sure what.

Scaring old people about their entitlements is generally GOP way to go and they're good at ignoring what reasonable people consider a warm cup of STFU . If people cavil about such things it is worth pointing out that it is also *their* entitlement.

fact: most Americans don't even know or care what the CBO is. really all that matters is how the bill is spun in the press

well--the other thing that matters is pelosi/clyburn/hoyer/obamas ability to convince scared conservative democrats that they will be able to spin their votes positively. and if the CBO says it cuts the deficit, thats powerful ammo.

people don't need to know what CBO is (tho i think the profile of CBO is much higher now than i've ever seen before). people just need to hear that a nonpartisan agency -- relied upon by both parties for years -- has concluded this bill reduces the deficit.

that resonates.

maybe ... but it seems to me that the more likely pool of "yes" votes that Pelosi needs is the liberal left, not conservative dems.

xp

meh. i'm not sure that's true at all.

she needs to sway those who listen to charlie cook (i.e., the way to be reelected is to run against this bill, and the white house, just like some lucky democrats did in 1994)

ie, the "conservative" Dems are just trying to save their political asses. you can't argue with self-preservation. whereas the liberal left is opposed to the bill on largely on policy/principle grounds, and is thus more susceptible to persuasion.

xp

like I don't think Kucinich is in danger of losing his seat no matter which way he votes on this bill, knowhutimean

Kucinich is actively trying to court naysayers, sez TPM – an unprecedented move on his part, according to the story.

Kucinich is a done deal, Shakey xpost

There is a segment though who will be suspicious the CBO because of the 'C'. Its government therefore it must be bad and you can guess exactly which commentators are going play on those suspicions.

maybe ... but it seems to me that the more likely pool of "yes" votes that Pelosi needs is the liberal left, not conservative dems.

xp

― famous for hating everything (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:04 PM (45 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

iirc theres a handful of lefty holdouts at best vs. a couple dozen conservative dems? gutierrez is the only one i can think of off the top of my head, and im betting hell fold. kucinich and oberstar switched.

i think, given the math, pelosi has to sway some conservative democrats.

but maybe i've misread the blog/news posts on the politics of this.

Kucinich is a done deal, Shakey xpost

right I know that was just an example cuz I can't immediately recall any other the names of the lefty Reps that voted "no" previously

ie, the "conservative" Dems are just trying to save their political asses. you can't argue with self-preservation. whereas the liberal left is opposed to the bill on largely on policy/principle grounds, and is thus more susceptible to persuasion.

xp

― famous for hating everything (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, March 18, 2010 12:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

haha i think the opposite is true!! its a lot easier to get someone to capitulate by saying, "we will pump money into your campaign and give you tons of ammo saying this is a budget-reducing bill" than it is by saying "i know you disagree with the premises of this bill but vote for it anyway!"

oberstar switched

wau i'm not paying attention, didn't know he was ever anti. wtf.

oberstar was more complicated than just being a lefty, iirc he was a possibly stupak 12 member

Stupak 12 is that like the Stalag 13

would happily put Bart Stupak in a fucking labor camp, personally

its like blink 182

http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff269/GangstaJim/Cute.jpg

Stupak 12 shortly before embarking on their first regional tour

HOTTT

Oberstar switched, WTG MN!

Ah, here's the GOP line of argument forming:

these projections assume:

– 10 years of taxes
– 6 years of program implementation
– $500B in medicare cuts that will not happen

Which means, they are meaningless

Sounds remarkably like the basis for the bush tax cuts.

The GOP will definitely demagogue the cbo numbers, make shit up, cable news will have hacks from both sides make points and yell at each other and the circle of life will continue

Hi, guys: read The Corner this morning.

To quote The Man Who Fell to Earth, “If I stay here (The Corner), I shall die.”

they seem to be getting nervous, details beyond that i don't think i can stomach

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2010/03/health_care_overhaul_to_get_fr.html

Framing of the issue is what's important here. Prochoice people will live to rue all the ideological concessions being made to get votes on this bill. The ground that's being given is important.

not disputing your point or trying to fight at all i promise, genuinely wondering what ground you think is being given? the idea that its OK to oppose abortion?

the idea that abortion is a health care procedure needed by many women rather than some moral third rail separate from health care