US POLITICS: AMERICANS, PLEASE WELCOME YOUR NEW PRESIDENT... SCOTT BROWN!

so HCR will lead to america's being marginalized on the world stage, and eventually invaded and occupied by foreign enemies?

i'm now against HCR.

it's not worth that terrible, terrible price.

How dare you question Red Dawn.

i remember having to hide under desks to prepare for a possible Soviet nuclear attack.

it's sad what this HCR bill will do to our country.

I was going to post the Steyn post a half hour ago; it's amazing. Its subtext: "We can no longer afford to rape and pillage other countries because our health care system may be as excellent as Western Europe's."

david gergen on my tv right now calling pelosi one of the most powerful and effective speakers in history

Well, like I said upthread, I'm not one to give Dems credit, but she's the most effective Speaker of my lifetime, certainly.

yeah, i don't think gergen's necessarily off-base.

She definitely shines a light on the absolute uselessness of Harry Reid in the upper house, anyway.

btw, not only is this not a "failed presidency," i'd say it's one of the more effective first-years i've seen in a presidential term in my lifetime.

in terms of moving key legislative initiatives through congress (i'm not arguing merits, here).

To give Harry Reid the barest scintilla of credit, he'll likely be defeated for passing this.

i think pelosi knows her shit. i'm just always amused by how quickly the pundit wisdom changes depending on what's happening on any given day.

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NWI3MGNjMjVlMmJmYjEwNzdlYTYzZWYwNDlmNWIxNzg=

Longer wait times, fewer doctors, more bureaucracy, massive IRS expansion, explosive debt, the end of the Pax Americana, and global Armageddon. Must try to look on the bright side...

haha lol ok, ty for that

Steny Hoyer looks like the kitten with the canary in his mouth.

republican butthurtedness is enabling me to overlook democratic smug-assholeness.

my brother-in-law, a very smart guy and works as a runner for a rent-a-car agency, insists that this HCR bill will drive up everyone's health-care premiums.

i would assume that many people in his position would welcome HCR. i wonder how many others like him are now likely to vote republican (he started out as a big obama supporter; not sure what happened).

a very smart guy and works as a runner for a rent-a-car agency, insists that this HCR bill will drive up everyone's health-care premiums.

hmmm. maybe he's not a very smart guy?

About to say, you're not doing wonders here convincing me of his brilliance.

haha. he is book-smart (valedictorian of his HS graduating class, iirc). but i've never had a good handle on his politics.

he sounds like a dumbass

send him this link and tell him to look at #2

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/five_cost_controls_in_the_sena.html

lol! okay, easy now.

i will send him the link. thanks, que.

So we may end up lowering the ridiculous amount we use on defense for a national system that helps people at home rather than killing people abroad? What the fuck are we waiting for IMHO.

I'm beginning to think someone could make a financial killing taking advantage of people like Daniel's brother-in-law by setting up some insurance company and going "Here's how to get health care coverage without being part of Obamacare!" without actually saying you're just doing what the law now requires you to do now anyway.

"I've got my health care coverage now from Crying Eagle Insurance and I'm keeping America strong!"

"And get this -- join now and we'll cover your kids until they're 25!"

"Holy fuck, I'm in! Why didn't they tell me!"

so like 500 tea party people there, i'd say? not that many. and some gop reps are standing on a terrace on one of the higher floors of the capitol waving like the queen of england

If I were in the immigration reform crowd today I'd be pretty cheesed at the accidental timing. "Dude, we're all over here!"

if i were in the immigration reform crowd today, i'd be hiding from bats--t crazy "tea-baggers."

if i were the immigration reform crowd id be all ay this is nice and all but what abt immigration reform

the immigration reform crowd was tens of thousands, easily. massive.

xxpost -- There's at least a hundred thousand people in the immigration reform crowd so personally I'd think otherwise.

Anyway now the procedural vote is done so the final debate can begin! *snores*

Really looking forward to the final debate!!

Anyway now the procedural vote is done so the final debate can begin! *snores*

THE FINAL CONFRONTATION. MANO-A-MANO.

Just got done reading Michael Shermer's _Why People Believe Weird Things_, and he repeatedly makes the point on the book and on his blog that intelligence doesn't really affect whether you believe weird things or not. Smart people are excellent at rationalizing beliefs they've arrived at thru non-smart means.

Another example are the kind of brilliant technical people one meets who are really into Ayn Rand, Ron Paul, trutherism, UFOs, etc.

does someone have a quick, quality link rebutting the argument that HCR will raid millions from medicare/older americans?

"Smart people are excellent at rationalizing beliefs they've arrived at thru non-smart means."

^ Just made this my facebook status.

Seriously. Check out Shermer's SkepticBlog. Writes about this alla time.

xxp http://www.slate.com/id/2237497/

does someone have a quick, quality link rebutting the argument that HCR will raid millions from medicare/older americans?

― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, March 21, 2010 6:05 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark

daniel i dunno, but there were some "expected" savings in Medicare that were counted in the overall cost computation of the bill, i think. and then the bill of course spends money on subsidies for the uninsured, so, there you go. maybe that's what "raiding" means?

there is some controversy among Corner types re: "double counting" some medicare savings, but i dunno wtf they're on about

xps: or read that article i guess

Grandstand, Oppose, Postpone = GOP. Don't know which Rep said this, but LOLLLLL.

so medicare advantage is a program whereby the gov't pays private insurers to administer medicare benefits, on the theory that they'll do it more efficiently (thereby yielding a savings for the gov't or better benefits for medicare advantage beneficiaries). but the idea backfired, and now medicare advantage is sucking more funds from the gov't than regular medicare payments, and that's the medicare money that the HCR recoups (by pairing back the medicare advantage program)?

sorry to ask dumb questions on the eve of a historic vote.

LOL at this republican complaining about Obama using an executive order

We all remember his valiant efforts to limit Bush's use of the exec. order.

yglesias on the final stupak bullshit:

I’ve spent a while trying to figure out what it is Bart Stupak got in the course of his executive order “compromise” on abortion, and as best I can tell the answer is nothing. Or as Athenae < href="http://www.first-draft.com/2010/03/bart-got-what-he-wanted.html";>puts it he got attention. I think what primarily happened is that with his bloc dissolving, Stupak cut a face-saving deal that mostly gave him an opportunity for “walking back from some of his past arguments”.

The problem with Stupack’s position in this has been that current law already reflects what he wants and the proposal he was objecting to also already reflects what he wants. If I wrote the laws, abortion would be treated like the bona fide medical procedure it is, and there’d be no reason that government-subsidized insurance plans couldn’t offer it. But I don’t write the laws, existing law reflects unjust discrimination against abortion services, and Obama’s proposals have always included a commitment to maintain the status quo. The political judgment that revisiting the Hyde Amendment in the middle of a giant fight about the overall structure of the insurance market was a bad idea strikes me as correct. But as a result of that, Stupak has been spending all this time huffing and puffing over basically nothing. In the end, Obama agreed to issue an executive order that basically amounts to pinky swearing that the Hyde rules are still in effect, but that’s always been his position. In exchange, Stupak agreed to acknowledge that the proposal actually does what everyone’s been saying it does, but he gets to walk away without admitting that he’s been wrong about this for a while now.

Oh here they go with Pitts, bitching about the executive order and trying to control my uterus, with magic Christians.

can we get a new USGVT thred?