Anyone read this?
http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Strikes-Out-Baseball-Promoted/dp/1595581952/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269999008&sr=8-3
― Daleks in NYC (Leee), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 01:31 (thirteen years ago) link
Started Fifty-Nine in '84 last night. It's pretty decent so far. A little too fond of sounding like a 19th c. newsman at times.
― a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Wednesday, 31 March 2010 04:45 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ebooks/free_ebook.html
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 8 April 2010 11:49 (thirteen years ago) link
Anyone have this coffee table book?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0711/neil.leifer.baseball.book/content.1.html
― no turkey unless it's a club sandwich (polyphonic), Thursday, 8 April 2010 16:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Fifty-nine in '84 was weirdly obsessed with the existence of hookers and the possibility that Hoss Radbourn's true love had been one
The Bullpen Gospels is basically a feel-good Ball Four. You get mentions of baseball groupies and drinking, but none of the gory details. Damn, I need to read Ball Four again.
― a cross between lily allen and fetal alcohol syndrome (milo z), Thursday, 15 April 2010 20:16 (thirteen years ago) link
Haven't read it but I'm guessing it's solid.
Beyond Batting AverageOver the past few decades, a multitude of advanced hitting, pitching, fielding and base running measures have been introduced to the baseball world. This comprehensive sabermetrics primer will introduce you to these new statistics with easy to understand explanations and examples. It will illustrate the evolution of statistics from simple traditional measures to the more complex metrics of today. You will learn how all the statistics are connected to winning and losing games, how to interpret them, and how to apply them to performance on the field. By the end of this book, you will be able to evaluate players and teams through statistics more thoroughly and accurately than you could before.
http://stores.lulu.com/store.php?fStoreID=873874
― Andy K, Monday, 17 May 2010 12:42 (thirteen years ago) link
RFI: a basic baseball book for my GF. I feel like I need to introduce slash stats before I can get all wonky. Also, she watched a little of SNBB w/ me last night and, say what you will abt J morgan, having super slo-mo shots of swings is v v educational.
― Astronaut Mike Dexter (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Monday, 17 May 2010 14:05 (thirteen years ago) link
basic as far as analysis or history goes?
Allen Barra, a Birmingham native, has a history of Rickwood Field out:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/book-guide/2010/2610530.html
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 17 August 2010 19:05 (thirteen years ago) link
just finished The Bullpen Gospels last week. not a bad read. i preferred the lighthearted stuff over the more serious bits.
― oreo speed wiggum (The Cursed Return of the Dastardly Thermo Thinwall), Tuesday, 17 August 2010 19:20 (thirteen years ago) link
http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/archives/2010/09/ball-four-more.html
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Friday, 24 September 2010 17:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Haven't read the piece yet, but thanks for the link. Along with James's and Kael's books, and (its influence long since dissapated) The Catcher in the Rye, no book ever influenced me more. Read it at just the perfect time, when I was the 12th guy on my high-school basketball team, cracking wise about the despotic coach and some of the lunks ahead of me. I was booted off the team within a year or two of reading Ball Four; not sure if that would have happened without a nudge from Bouton.
― clemenza, Friday, 24 September 2010 23:32 (thirteen years ago) link
has anyone read "'78" by bill reynolds?
― 867-5309 (abdul) (roxymuzak), Tuesday, 23 November 2010 04:05 (thirteen years ago) link
no.
John Thorn has an early-days history coming in March:
https://baseballeden.com/Home.html
― kind of shrill and very self-righteous (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:27 (thirteen years ago) link
im reading '78 right now. BF got me eight men out for xmas, that's next.
― dark link (roxymuzak), Saturday, 29 January 2011 18:45 (thirteen years ago) link
David Ulin of the LA Times picks his all-time favorites:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/books/la-et-0331-baseball-books-20110331,0,7729658.story
― your generation appalls me (Dr Morbius), Saturday, 9 April 2011 14:34 (twelve years ago) link
"The Long Season" by Jim Brosnan (1960). Ten years before "Ball Four," Brosnan published the first (and still best) baseball diary
I've never heard of this book!
Was there nothing good written after 1983?
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 9 April 2011 15:15 (twelve years ago) link
I liked the Bronsan book when I read it years ago, but I find it surprising that anyone would list it rather than--or at least alongside--Ball Four, unless you object to Bouton's book for the same reasons Bowie Kuhn and Mickey Mantle did.
― clemenza, Saturday, 9 April 2011 15:20 (twelve years ago) link
This is perfect -- I was just hunting for a good baseball book list (and couldn't really find one anywhere).
― Mordy, Saturday, 9 April 2011 23:04 (twelve years ago) link
Ball Four is a tough read - the narrator is so, I don't know, unlikeable (and not a good writer, though why should he be). Have read about a third and have put it into the "not right now" pile.
― Mark C, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 17:34 (twelve years ago) link
I didn't read B4 til a couple years ago and found it immensely readable.
I've only read two of the books on that list in their entirety.
― your generation appalls me (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 17:37 (twelve years ago) link
ie, Malamud and Angell.
tho I miiiight have read the Breslin book on the Mets a very long time ago.
― your generation appalls me (Dr Morbius), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 17:38 (twelve years ago) link
the coover book is great but not really about baseball
― congratulations (n/a), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 17:56 (twelve years ago) link
Ball Four is a tough read - the narrator is so, I don't know, unlikeable (and not a good writer, though why should he be).
Majorly, majorly disagree. Unlikeable, maybe--I find Bouton very likeable, more in love with the quirks and absurdities of baseball than an underpaid, aging reliever barely hanging on with a doomed franchise ought to be, but I can see where someone might find him to be a self-obsessed wiseass. But as to the other point, I think he's a better writer than most writers. (How much credit belongs with Leonard Shecter, his editor, I don't know.)
― clemenza, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 18:49 (twelve years ago) link
Clemenza and I totally agree! Bouton is immensely likeable and a great writer. A lousy actor though. Laughable in the Long Goodbye.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 20:12 (twelve years ago) link
No Eight Men Out? That's a very good book imo.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 20:14 (twelve years ago) link
I couldn't make the adjustment to us agreeing, Alex...I think Bouton's fine in The Long Goodbye. Not an actor, agreed, but the guy he's playing is a superficial operator whose slickness is supposed to contrast with Gould's dogged, somewhat clumsy virtuousness, and by that yardstick I think he does okay. When he tells Marlowe at the end that that's the way it is, guys like him are chumps who are there to be taken advantage of, I find Bouton credibly slimy.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 21:38 (twelve years ago) link
I can't stand the movie so I don't really like anything about it.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 22:04 (twelve years ago) link
Surprising...Just the movie itself, or '70s Altman in general? Mark Rydell delivers a line that's on my short-list of funniest ever.
― clemenza, Tuesday, 12 April 2011 22:21 (twelve years ago) link
The movie. Although there are other 70s Altman flicks I can't stand there is plenty I love.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 12 April 2011 22:52 (twelve years ago) link
1921: The Yankees, the Giants, and the Battle for Baseball Supremacy in New York, written by SABR members Lyle Spatz and Steve Steinberg, is the winner of the 2011 Seymour Medal, which honors the best book of baseball history or biography published during the preceding calendar year.
http://sabr.org/latest/spatz-and-steinbergs-1921-awarded-2011-seymour-medal
― your generation appalls me (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 13 April 2011 06:07 (twelve years ago) link
Wow, impressed with the consensus on Ball Four. I should pick it back up then, huh!
― Mark C, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 13:02 (twelve years ago) link
I'd also recommend the follow-up, I'm Glad You Didn't Take It Personally, which covers Bouton's half-season with the Astros in '70, his release, and the fallout from Ball Four (some priceless stuff on Bowie Kuhn). Not as good, but good nonetheless. He also wrote a book on managers that I read years ago and liked. There were chapters on Harry Walker, Joe Schultz (shitfuck, a must), Houk, etc. Pretty sure it was called I Managed Good, but Boy Did They Play Bad.
Bouton has a website where you can arrange to get books autographed: http://www.jimbouton.com/. I continue to think about doing this...it's a little pricey, but I think the money goes to charity.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 13 April 2011 16:48 (twelve years ago) link
for Ball Four fans:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/ball-four-tracers/
― resistance does not require a firearm (Dr Morbius), Sunday, 15 May 2011 00:12 (twelve years ago) link
So thank you all for getting me to stick with Ball Four. It's an awesome piece of work, insightful and fascinating, and Bouton comes across clever, compassionate and decades ahead of his time. His team-mates, for the most part, not so much! I definitely want to pick up the sequel now.
― Mark C, Monday, 20 June 2011 10:47 (twelve years ago) link
Shawn Green has a Zen-inflected memoir out:
http://mlb.sbnation.com/2011/8/2/2306220/shawn-green-interview
― satan club sandwich (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 3 August 2011 13:52 (twelve years ago) link
An interesting postscript to The Echoing Green -- Ralph Branca just found out, through Joshua Prager, that his mother was Jewish and that several of his relatives died at Auschwitz:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/sports/baseball/for-branca-an-asterisk-of-a-different-kind.html?pagewanted=all
― satan club sandwich (Dr Morbius), Monday, 15 August 2011 15:28 (twelve years ago) link
Stumbled over this searching for a Merritt Ranew quote:
http://www.funtrivia.com/playquiz/quiz1704811385e00.html
20/25.
― clemenza, Sunday, 30 October 2011 12:49 (twelve years ago) link
I'm reading "Ball Four" again and was looking up some of the players on B-R. Cheers on sponsoring the Joe Schultz page, clemenza!
(although there are MUCH better Joe Schultz quotes, IMO) :)
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 31 March 2012 09:53 (eleven years ago) link
Thanks. There are so many to choose from. Knowing I couldn't get "shitfuck" or "fuckshit" in there, that eliminated about half off the top. There's just something about the absurdity of the roast beef quote I love. (I used to sponsor Fred Talbot's page, too, until a relative of his contacted me about giving it up.)
― clemenza, Saturday, 31 March 2012 14:22 (eleven years ago) link
When you finish, NoTime, try the quiz I linked to in the post previous to yours--it's still up.
― clemenza, Saturday, 31 March 2012 16:02 (eleven years ago) link
I got 21/25. I probably should have done better considering I just read the book.
Schultz never managed again, with the exception of a cup of coffee with the Tigers a few years later. I guess his year with the Pilots gave him a reputation as a loser that he couldn't shake?
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 31 March 2012 20:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://img.getglue.com/books/big_hair_plastic_grass_funky_ride_through_baseball_america_in_swinging_70s/dan_epstein/normal.jpg
I must have been asleep when this came out--it even gets mentioned upthread. Bought a copy today, looking forward to it so much. (I loved Phil Pepe's oral history of '70s baseball a few years ago.)
― clemenza, Sunday, 24 June 2012 20:49 (eleven years ago) link
Learned about this thanks to the above book. I have no recollection of it whatsoever:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s4T_gypZDY
― clemenza, Thursday, 28 June 2012 04:51 (eleven years ago) link
Two-thirds of the way through this--love it. Reminding me of so many things I'd forgotten: e.g., the '76 NL batting race, where Griffey to sat to protect his lead and had Madlock go 4-4 to pass him. And so much else that I wasn't aware of. Three examples: 1) That if you write Dock Ellis's name like it would be formally alphabetized, you get Ellis, D.; 2) Danny Ozark, as the '76 Phillies started to squander a huge lead to the Pirates: "Every Napoleon had his Watergate"; 3) Game 5 of the '74 Series, with Charlie Finley sharing the owner's box with Rock Hudson and Anita Bryant.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 July 2012 00:59 (eleven years ago) link
Yeah, this book sounds awesome.
― NoTimeBeforeTime, Saturday, 7 July 2012 12:02 (eleven years ago) link
I was looking up a Yogi Berra quote online today, and found the Napoleon/Watergate quote attributed to him. My guess: Ozark actually said it, but eventually every great malapropism gets credited to Berra.
― clemenza, Saturday, 7 July 2012 23:16 (eleven years ago) link
http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/17/tony-la-russa-holds-a-grudge-against-keith-law/
― Andy K, Monday, 17 September 2012 15:01 (eleven years ago) link
Enjoying most of this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51364op%2BHbL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg
The chapter on the draft and risk/reward is great; it loses me when they get into PITCHf/x, though, where it's like reading a dry textbook.
― clemenza, Monday, 17 September 2012 15:18 (eleven years ago) link
Good stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_fXNLNzNuk
― clemenza, Monday, 26 November 2012 23:18 (eleven years ago) link
on Jim Brosnan and The Long Season:
http://www.theparisreview.org/blog/2012/10/25/quit-thinking-you%E2%80%99re-hurting-the-club/
― saltwater incursion (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 23 January 2013 21:03 (eleven years ago) link
Sorry to go on about this...As I suspected, the reprints are pretty rare in and of themselves:
https://picclick.com/Vintage-Bill-James-Baseball-Abstract-Set-1977-1978-262998858206.html
If that's accurate, this person sold the first five for $2,500, with the '77 and '78 editions reprints; I've got the '77 reprint and originals for '78-'81 (which Mike Saunders--Creem, Angry Samoans--gave to me years ago), so presumably the value would be comparable.
The story of the '77 reprint is pretty interesting according to that link: "reprints are just as rare as they were only produced (allegedly by Bill James' wife) upon written request." I don't know if that's how Martin got his or if he bought it second-hand.
― clemenza, Monday, 25 March 2024 13:35 (four days ago) link