Kratom, the legal opiate alternative (and other legal highs discussion, I guess).

Stoner Guy, if you're going to do it, there is a simple junior-high chemistry way to separate the acetaminophen or ibuprofen from the opiate, which will help save your liver. Look for a "codeine FAQ" around the web and usenet, and you should be able to find it.

I've been addicted to these and kicking sucks. Diarrhea for 2-3 weeks, want to sleep all the time, limbs feel heavy, and just a general BAD feeling all the time (especially mornings), feels bad in a similar indescribable way as the high feels good.

No idea what kratom is.

kratom, from most of the reports i've read, is not really all that enjoyable. or rather more just really underwhelming.

Then you haven't read these:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/exp_Kratom_General.shtml

OTM. It can't even fairly be described as disorienting: it's unreal in the most literal sense of the word. I smoked it, too: 3-4 hits of 6x. At one point I thought I had spikes coming out of my back.

First time I tried it I swallowed perhaps two tablespoons, stirred into water. Aside from a bitter taste and a little wooziness I thought, "Eh, that's nothing," and eventually went to bed. And then woke up several hours later to find myself in the midst of a quite respectable trails-seeing and intensely visual trip. Like a mild acid experience.

So the second time I thought I'd plan better and ingest the nutmeg earlier in the day, so that it would peak in the evening for maximum fun. To get round the trouble of having to drink a lot of nutmeggy water, I made several little packets with rice paper then swallowed them. I found that it caused pretty serious drowsiness for a few hours, then moderately interesting visual phenomena and a feeling of "yep, I'm definitely altered."

Wouldn't do it again, though. Nowadays I will either get real drugs or try to content myself with good ol' quotidian reality.

They are a blend of Sida Cordifolia extract, kola nut extract, Argyria nervosa and Piperine. A brief bit of research on t'internet tells me the first two are stimulants, the third is a mild hallucinagen, and the third alters the bodies ability to metabolise drugs.

So, how good are they?

I misread this as saliva. *sigh*

It only lasted a minute or two but I wasn't myself again for a few hours.

I know it's not big and clever but I am as curious as my cat and wouldn't mind trying it sometime (dihydrocodeine, that is).

These spambots are really on the ball!

This is all inspired by being completely unable to sleep despite consuming (for me) a ridiculous amount of booze. I ran out of pot yesterday and while I don't usually have any withdrawal symptoms apart from some hot/cold flushes this time I have become immune to booze and tiredness. It's very annoying. It might have something to do with consuming a few pints of green tea at the local Chinese restaurant earlier this evening though. Does green tea have caffeine in it?

But yeah it is getting mental - look at the admin logs.

Tablets + cold water, let it sit til it all settles, pour off the liquid, that has the codiene in it. I think.

Look for codiene cold water extraction. I've never tried it mself.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5290545

Just ordered some Kratom. What doses have folks here tried?

The kratom I got really wasn't that good, and it was far too expensive for the amount of high.

Not legal for much longer...

http://gizmodo.com/the-dea-now-thinks-kratom-is-as-dangerous-as-heroin-1785953337

I've been using it for 3 months. I was trying to get off suboxone, and heard that kratom helps with withdrawals, and found that to be true. I've now been off suboxone for 2 months. However I continue to use kratom daily (one dose a day, when I wake up) because it's a pretty good mood enhancer, although it only lasts 1.5 hrs or so.

It's about 5% as strong as heroin, even at max dosage, and withdrawals are negligible

Friend just gave me a jar of this and a jar of kava that he won in a headshop raffle.

Kava last night at the recommended dosage didn't do shit. Kratom tonight, maybe.

If the DEA schedules it, that will be hilarious, but I won't seek it (or a substitute) out. It's that benign. It's nice, and super cheap ($2 dose) if you're buying off the internet. Xp

Ha I was just about to describe kratom as "what you were hoping kava would do". If you want any effects from kratom you need to do about 10g.

I didn't find kratom withdrawals negligible at all, but then I've nothing in the same category to compare it to and was using it heavily for a long time. It made me incredibly sick and green-skinned in the end and I couldn't digest anything, but I'm not against it and if people can utilise it to transition from harder things or to combat depressive moods in the short term, then it's way better than a lot of alternatives. If my favourite provider hadn't relocated to Canada then I definitely would have fallen back into the ritual again by now. Obviously comparisons to heroin are ridiculous, and the kratom in that picture is going to have about as much effect as a strong cup of tea. I hope the people who need it can still find loopholes to whatever laws they impose.

xp

Use a bit of lemon or lime juice as a potentiator with your kratom if you're having it as a tea (makes it taste better too if you're unaccustomed), and space out drinking it with plain water, which should minimise any minor nausea. If you do feel sick, just lie down for ten minutes and it'll pass. Besides that, should all be lovely and warm. Haha, I like the idea of a 'headshop raffle'.

People's experiences with it vary so drastically. Most use it for energy/focus at low (3-5g) dosages, but I don't notice anything. At 10g I get a feeling that mimics hydrocodone at ~10mg.

I did run out for a week after using for a month and the wd's were so mild I wasn't sure if it wasn't all in my head.

Yeah, I take it off and on in 2-3g doses and get a nice mild stimulant/opiate effect, often helps get rid of my frequent headaches. Never taken anything close to 10g but I have no prior opiate tolerance.

I found that at higher doses of a decent powder (super green indo springs to mind) or a strong extract I was prone to getting incredibly irritable, which only compounded my need for it. In the end I was fully dependent on it for relaxation and diminished anxiety (though it gave me death fear something crazy) and coming fully off it after about three years, everything was painful and I had to drink often to get through it. I still have a deep love for it though, even if it skewed my receptiveness to all films for a while and turned my essays into raving monologues.

I had a weird thing happen a couple weeks ago where I took it near the end of a massively stressful day just to try to relax. It improved my mood but I woke up the next day with a godawful hangover, pain every time I moved my head, and it lasted through the next morning. I hadn't had any alcohol, though dehydration was probably a factor. It's a weird drug.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/12/the-dea-is-reversing-its-insane-decision-to-ban-the-opiate-like-plant-kratom-for-now/

FDA calling it kratom an opioid now, ban sure to follow soon?

Never managed to take it even in small doses without (mild) stomach cramping.

https://www.fda.gov/Food/RecallsOutbreaksEmergencies/Outbreaks/ucm597265.htm

Salmonella outbreak.

tried kratom for the fuck of it. first time: got nauseated and it sucked. second time, got so super nauseated and could not swallow my spit. it was insane and scary and the only reason i didn't completely flip the fuck out was that i could still swallow water from a cup

Were you just drinking powder and water or taking it in capsules? It does taste fucking terrible. Also how much did you take? I’ve never gone over 3g at once.

I’m still grateful to kratom for getting me through plane flights without a massive headache.

drinking the powder and just eyeballing the doses. so probably mostly my fault for not being smart about it

I guess my rec would be to take around four 00 capsules on an empty-ish stomach and see how it goes. That is if you’re a bad enough dude to handle a little salmonella.

But who knows, it might just make you feel gross and I don’t know if I should encourage anyone to start taking something that’s likely to get banned real soon.

classic or dud

the wikipedia page is so absurdly negative i find it hard to take seriously

possible TMI: gross tasting but can produce nice effects, assuming you stock up on stool softeners

personally I have a hard time handling the taste but obviously that varies btwn folks

I got these little rice paper discs that mask the taste pretty well.

Again, I don’t fully endorse it, look up r/quittingkratom for some warnings, but the people on there are often taking 10 times the amount I find effective.

not a patch on the real thing ive been told, from a close friend who tried it while in recovery for heroin. although obv ymmv. at least it won't have fentanyl in it!

will maybe try if i ever get in an experimental mood again.

I never managed to take it at any dose I could feel without awful stomach cramps.

C & D. I started taking it to kick a prescription painkiller habit I developed after cracking a rib. Helped me do that completely and initially felt great, was running PBs and generally feeling great. But I'm not good at keeping this type of thing under control and have done it pretty much every day since October, to treat chronic pain and as a mood boost. Just anecdotally I've found my skin and nails to be a little dry and I'm a bit chesty and wheezy. I have achilles pain that won't clear up. I'm sure it's related. I make a lemon tea with it but consuming all that plant matter probably isn't that great for you. Currently two days into a break and feel generally tired, sore, irritable and can't sleep without taking something. I'd like to be able to use it a few times a week because there are benefits but who knows if that'll be possible

damn, sounds rough. good luck with that.

Mostly classic. To echo xp, it's a godsend for treating opiate withdrawals, the obvious side effect being eventual kratom withdrawals, which can be tapered away relatively easily. My preferred dose is a heaping teaspoon (about 3-4 grams) via "toss and wash" with a glass of water, which is painless/flavorless once you get the technique down. I actually find that I'm more "regular" when I'm on kratom, which I think is due to a combination of ingestion of lots of plant fiber plus increased water intake. The key is to drink at least a full glass of water with each dose, even if you're only taking a couple of capsules.

Here in Thailand they sell you the Kratom leaves for about 20 cent each and you just boil them and make tea out of them. I was a bit skeptical at first but the effect is actually quite nice, and not too far from the real thing imho

Have never tried it in Europe so I can’t compare though.

spotted this in a shop in Ohio and got a bag out of curiosity, now that I'm reading about it though thinking I might just toss it

i think my younger brother uses this just about every night. he seems fine but i find it worrying that he is essentially addicted to it. i tried it once while hanging out with him and didn't notice any effect, but i had been drinking

not to be that guy but frogbs, don't do it!

by which i mean, toss it, don't use it!

i had a friend who tried out kratom a few years ago, was all about it for a week, said it helped him with his back pain, then he came to visit me in chicago for 2 days, and during these 2 days we did nothing but watch him take cratom, watch him run out of cratom, go all over the city to get cratom, and then went and got some extra cratom for his trip home. he was incredibly cranky the entire time, the crankiest i've seen him in 25 years of friendship, and couldn't stop talking about how awesome cratom was and how i should try some with him.

finally, finally he stopped taking it a few months later, but man, fuck that kratom stuff

sorry, i watched a kranky kong video last night and have been konflating kr and cr ever since

in conclusion, kratom is bad. much better to watch all of this video before making any decision:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npuuTBlEb1U

i'd be a lot more worried about my brother if his habit resembled anything like that. he takes it before bed like sleepytime tea

i tried this once and it just made feel a little mentally hazy and nauseated. didn't realize it was addictive in its own right, so i guess i have more than one reason to avoid it.

I've tried opiates and benzos a few times and didn't get addicted but maybe a big part of it is just not having them available. my thought in buying this was "well you can't get more so if you really like it too bad" but obv it's pretty easy to buy online

still may try it once for curiositys sake