You implied it in the same post where you conflated 'popular' and 'significant'
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah sorry i have gotten muddled at times about whether we're talking popularity or significance and what the difference is between them
― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:34 (thirteen years ago) link
either way you can disregard anything else i've thrown out there and just go back to the core argument that Gucci now is analogous to Biggie then, which i just think is totally wrong.
― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Not sure anyone relates to Biggie in the current game...
t.i. or jeezy maybe.
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:42 (thirteen years ago) link
well, stylistically, i think gucci is closest, and i've used the comparison a few times before, but i'm not exactly sure if i'd go all the way to where deej is going
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:43 (thirteen years ago) link
Jeezy isn't even close to big creatively. T.I. has a similar important career but there are pretty much no other parallels. Gucci is on big's level, after rtd before lad which isn't really cheating because you're comparing a guy in the middle of his career w a dead one. If u would rather, were at jay z vol 3 with gucci, and in five years a bunch of dorks will be praising his genius for all the wrong reasons
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link
in five years a bunch of dorks will be praising his genius for all the wrong reasons
you've got my word on it
― it's detlef season, you schrempfs (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:46 (thirteen years ago) link
Jay-Z Vol 3 is a guy coming off of a 4x platinum album and having a hit on the scale of "Big Pimpin'." there are no download statistics or regional radio spins you can wave around for Gucci that are comparable to that.
― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:48 (thirteen years ago) link
also how people MIGHT feel about him in 5 years doesn't really have any bearing on how people actually feel about him right now.
― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
were at jay z vol 3 with gucci
this makes a lot more sense than biggie
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
Gucci's got the most important rhyme style out, which us why Ludacris and Bun B are tripping over themselves to copy "lambo/Rambo/Evan Dando" rhyme schemes instead of "...GROCERY BAG" drakeisms
― Vuvuzola Jesus (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:50 (thirteen years ago) link
unlike jay-z and biggie (then), i'm not convinced gucci means much at all, persona-wise, to a non-rap audience
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
if gucci released 'the state of radric davis' in 1997 i think it would've gone platinum at a minimum
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:51 (thirteen years ago) link
and jay's chart numbers are comparable to gucci's up until "hard knock life" at least
these arguments are hard because of the timeframe
i think if "wasted" and "lemonade" get released b/w 2002 and 2005 they both hit at least the top 20 on the hot 100 and maybe "lemonade" scrapes the top 10
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:52 (thirteen years ago) link
gucci now on a jay scale is totes vol 1 jay. i.e. mass of mixtapes = reasonable doubt (brand building, awesome, dont necc. translate into sales), vol 1 = state v. radric davis (kinda dope but w/ shitty singles and not knowing how to really market dude letting a lot of fans down and not getting it out to the scale he should be at.)
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah...Gucci imo is really at Vol. 1/Streets Is Watching level Jay, a lot of love and a lot of people listening, but still waiting on a big event/record to really cement that.
xpost
― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:54 (thirteen years ago) link
it's not out of the question that gucci's "big pimpin" is coming this year (altho "lemonade" should've been it)
i think something hurting someone like gucci right now is that there's no producer right now working at the level of a late 90s/early 2000s timbo, or a 'blueprint'-era kanye, or early 2000s neptunes
there's no producer really in his utmost prime right now for someone like gucci to link up with and make a world beating classic that could define both of their careers (a la "h to the izzo" or "big pimpin" which doesn't define jay's career [the former] or timbo's [the latter] but they're both big hits for both rapper and producer)
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:57 (thirteen years ago) link
like, bangladesh and polow and swizz are all great producers who can do pop music with street rappers, but there's no producer right now who is on the level of jay getting to work with tim
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:58 (thirteen years ago) link
not to use that as a crutch in the "gucci as jay" analogy or w/e (like, "jay got lucky!" or w/e) but i think it's something important to note, cuz i think gucci is a great pop writer
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
Dude needs a Can I Get A.../Rubberband Man before a Big Pimpin/What You Know imo. Cos sorry but most people still only know him as the goofy looking dude with funny chains that Jeezy doesn't like (the same way that Jay was Biggie's mate that wasn't as rubbish as lil cease/puffy)
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 21:59 (thirteen years ago) link
i think "wasted" was a big enough hit that he has his own identity as a rapper
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Didn't Jay turn Kanye into the beast he is? No-one was looking at him at the turn of the century and think he would make the big pop hits for everyone, he was no id's mate and no id was quickly being forgotten?
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:00 (thirteen years ago) link
Jay was Biggie's mate that wasn't as rubbish as lil cease/puffy)
that's not accurate
― it's detlef season, you schrempfs (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
i still don't think he's respected tho -- i hear radio djs all the time down here drop the "wasted" chorus/plies verse in a mix but not gucci verses (allowing for the fact that plies gets played on the radio at a slightly disproportionate level in miami)
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:01 (thirteen years ago) link
no-one cared for reasonable doubt and then he drops i know what girls like and the city is mine and is on foxy brown singles...? seems p accurate
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:02 (thirteen years ago) link
to non-rap fans? a generic track that showcases gucci at his least gucci-y? on which fucking plies catches the attention more?
"lemonade" absolutely shoulda been his "rubberband man" tho
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:02 (thirteen years ago) link
well i don't think non-rap fans listen to rap anymore
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:03 (thirteen years ago) link
the only rap songs that get played on non-rap stations are eminem and bob, so i don't think it's really a valid metric of any sort
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link
i think that might be the crux of all these arguments! why is that, do you think?
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:04 (thirteen years ago) link
i don't really know
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:05 (thirteen years ago) link
part lack of great gangster rap, part other factors that are harder to put a finger on
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link
i do think that gucci would've been a huge star 6 years ago
to me "dead presidents" was a straight classic the first time i heard it, and i don't think it's fair to say that "no one" liked reasonable doubt, as much as jay complained about it after the fact...he was up and coming and frankly mind-blowing at first listen for me....
but there was always a certain rilvary there and roc-a-fella was a distinct camp in NYC apart from bad boy...i perceived biggie as being tighter with pac (pre feud) than he was with jay
― it's detlef season, you schrempfs (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:06 (thirteen years ago) link
― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:48 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
because no one goes platinum any more!!
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:07 (thirteen years ago) link
like, sometimes i default back to "maybe people just can't understand what the fuck he's saying" but juvenile was as mush-mouthed at times and mystikal literally rapped gibberish at times on his singles -- that's why i was entertaining this theory about him being hurt a bit by there being no zeitgeisty producer
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
fucking C-Murder went multi plat, if you dont think gucci's selling at least that many copies you're crazy!
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:08 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah i think deej is otm in this regard
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:09 (thirteen years ago) link
― Vuvuzola Jesus (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:50 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
why the fuck would u check with post-peak rappers to see whats hot with rap right now anyway?? look dude this is like starbucks rap. is e-40 copying those styles?? no. but he does have gucci mane guest verses ~~~think about it~~~
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:12 (thirteen years ago) link
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 23:06 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
I don't think anyone disagrees that gucci would have been a star during the boom years, or even if he was just marketed better last year.
Matt- oh I am not saying Jay was treated like 3xdope but considering he had the biggest rap superstar bigging him up, no pun intended, then reasonable doubt... i don't think even going gold at the time just makes it seem like most people heard Aint No Nigga or I Know What Girls Like, thought it was the 'worst' side of bad boy mainstream pop (or were sick of that 7 minutes of funk break being used AGAIN) and just went meh, so what. Even if he did have bangers, and most people needed a late pass, at the time he was seen as a bit of a sideshow, non?
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:12 (thirteen years ago) link
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:51 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
i think jay-z then is absolutely comparable to gucci now. at least in the states. cmon didnt the uk just discover jay-z around '99 problems' anyway?? i mean everybody new 'big pimpin' but 'lemonade' has been all over radio for like 6 mo right now, not sure how its much different
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:13 (thirteen years ago) link
"I don't think anyone disagrees that gucci would have been a star during the boom years, or even if he was just marketed better last year."
its not that he would be more popular during the boom years -- its just that youd have a way of actually measuring it back then! he is a star...?
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:14 (thirteen years ago) link
he's definitely a rap star, full stop -- he's not a pop star tho
― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:15 (thirteen years ago) link
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 5:02 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
how is it not?? did rubberband man chart any higher?
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:16 (thirteen years ago) link
jay got minor uk chart hits from the off, first BIG hit was "hard knock life", which is when i first became aware of him
― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:16 (thirteen years ago) link
"a generic track that showcases gucci at his least gucci-y"
this is a 100% inaccurate description of 'wasted'
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:17 (thirteen years ago) link
jeez you guys!
this is the best gucci mixtape in terms of rapping. it is completely mind blowing stuff imo but yeah i prob wouldnt try and get non-rap friends to listen to it. 7 years ago i might have but it kind of seems a different world in the uk anyway. i blame it mostly on the uk music industry deciding 5 or so years ago to push "real british indie music" over anything else. irrelevant here cos we are talking about a US rap artist i know but anyway.
still at a party a couple of weeks ago i put on 'wasted' pretty late and everyone went ham even if they'd never heard it before hah! this is the thing tho i still feel that non-rap people could still love a rapper like gucci but.....well i've no idea!?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxp
― hoes on my dick cos my groceries bagged (tpp), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:18 (thirteen years ago) link
gucci is def more popular nationally than jay was around vol. 1. i can tell you that jay wasnt even that big in chicago til hard knock life. known by rap nerds bu that was it. EVERYONE who likes rap knows gucci
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:19 (thirteen years ago) link
& so do lots & lots of pop fans. gucci is much more a crossover artist than jay was then
― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:20 (thirteen years ago) link
UK's love of hiphop post90s:
Slick Rick goes to jail, no-one really cares about the westcoast sound. Rap fans still f with the hardcore obv.Fugees go huge, obv. Boom time for Bad Boy singles and sound, up until Hard Knock Life really.UKG becomes more important while us rap sorts itself out.Eminem and Outkast duh.No-one really knows how to react to crunk.Post crunk rappers be huge.Dizzee and co do shiny bouncy shite, ppl feel let down by buying shitty kanye and 50 albums and hiphop is at a down period anyway so absolutely noone cares unless they read the rolling ringtone thread or write for the guardian.
Jay was always kinda a big deal post-Hard Knock Life. Big Pimpin, I Just Wanna Love U, Izzo were e'erywhere on the radio/mtv. kinda a big deal in a em/outkast > jay/lol ja rule > second tier way tho.
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:23 (thirteen years ago) link
ummm deej...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URLtnX_YqXs
― samuel :D (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 22:24 (thirteen years ago) link