letz talk abt gucci mane

also how people MIGHT feel about him in 5 years doesn't really have any bearing on how people actually feel about him right now.

were at jay z vol 3 with gucci

this makes a lot more sense than biggie

Gucci's got the most important rhyme style out, which us why Ludacris and Bun B are tripping over themselves to copy "lambo/Rambo/Evan Dando" rhyme schemes instead of "...GROCERY BAG" drakeisms

unlike jay-z and biggie (then), i'm not convinced gucci means much at all, persona-wise, to a non-rap audience

if gucci released 'the state of radric davis' in 1997 i think it would've gone platinum at a minimum

and jay's chart numbers are comparable to gucci's up until "hard knock life" at least

these arguments are hard because of the timeframe

i think if "wasted" and "lemonade" get released b/w 2002 and 2005 they both hit at least the top 20 on the hot 100 and maybe "lemonade" scrapes the top 10

gucci now on a jay scale is totes vol 1 jay. i.e. mass of mixtapes = reasonable doubt (brand building, awesome, dont necc. translate into sales), vol 1 = state v. radric davis (kinda dope but w/ shitty singles and not knowing how to really market dude letting a lot of fans down and not getting it out to the scale he should be at.)

yeah...Gucci imo is really at Vol. 1/Streets Is Watching level Jay, a lot of love and a lot of people listening, but still waiting on a big event/record to really cement that.

xpost

it's not out of the question that gucci's "big pimpin" is coming this year (altho "lemonade" should've been it)

i think something hurting someone like gucci right now is that there's no producer right now working at the level of a late 90s/early 2000s timbo, or a 'blueprint'-era kanye, or early 2000s neptunes

there's no producer really in his utmost prime right now for someone like gucci to link up with and make a world beating classic that could define both of their careers (a la "h to the izzo" or "big pimpin" which doesn't define jay's career [the former] or timbo's [the latter] but they're both big hits for both rapper and producer)

like, bangladesh and polow and swizz are all great producers who can do pop music with street rappers, but there's no producer right now who is on the level of jay getting to work with tim

not to use that as a crutch in the "gucci as jay" analogy or w/e (like, "jay got lucky!" or w/e) but i think it's something important to note, cuz i think gucci is a great pop writer

Dude needs a Can I Get A.../Rubberband Man before a Big Pimpin/What You Know imo. Cos sorry but most people still only know him as the goofy looking dude with funny chains that Jeezy doesn't like (the same way that Jay was Biggie's mate that wasn't as rubbish as lil cease/puffy)

i think "wasted" was a big enough hit that he has his own identity as a rapper

Didn't Jay turn Kanye into the beast he is? No-one was looking at him at the turn of the century and think he would make the big pop hits for everyone, he was no id's mate and no id was quickly being forgotten?

Jay was Biggie's mate that wasn't as rubbish as lil cease/puffy)

that's not accurate

i still don't think he's respected tho -- i hear radio djs all the time down here drop the "wasted" chorus/plies verse in a mix but not gucci verses (allowing for the fact that plies gets played on the radio at a slightly disproportionate level in miami)

no-one cared for reasonable doubt and then he drops i know what girls like and the city is mine and is on foxy brown singles...? seems p accurate

i think "wasted" was a big enough hit that he has his own identity as a rapper

to non-rap fans? a generic track that showcases gucci at his least gucci-y? on which fucking plies catches the attention more?

"lemonade" absolutely shoulda been his "rubberband man" tho

well i don't think non-rap fans listen to rap anymore

the only rap songs that get played on non-rap stations are eminem and bob, so i don't think it's really a valid metric of any sort

i think that might be the crux of all these arguments! why is that, do you think?

i don't really know

part lack of great gangster rap, part other factors that are harder to put a finger on

i do think that gucci would've been a huge star 6 years ago

to me "dead presidents" was a straight classic the first time i heard it, and i don't think it's fair to say that "no one" liked reasonable doubt, as much as jay complained about it after the fact...he was up and coming and frankly mind-blowing at first listen for me....

but there was always a certain rilvary there and roc-a-fella was a distinct camp in NYC apart from bad boy...i perceived biggie as being tighter with pac (pre feud) than he was with jay

Jay-Z Vol 3 is a guy coming off of a 4x platinum album and having a hit on the scale of "Big Pimpin'." there are no download statistics or regional radio spins you can wave around for Gucci that are comparable to that.

― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:48 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

because no one goes platinum any more!!

like, sometimes i default back to "maybe people just can't understand what the fuck he's saying" but juvenile was as mush-mouthed at times and mystikal literally rapped gibberish at times on his singles -- that's why i was entertaining this theory about him being hurt a bit by there being no zeitgeisty producer

fucking C-Murder went multi plat, if you dont think gucci's selling at least that many copies you're crazy!

yeah i think deej is otm in this regard

Gucci's got the most important rhyme style out, which us why Ludacris and Bun B are tripping over themselves to copy "lambo/Rambo/Evan Dando" rhyme schemes instead of "...GROCERY BAG" drakeisms

― Vuvuzola Jesus (Whiney G. Weingarten), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:50 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

why the fuck would u check with post-peak rappers to see whats hot with rap right now anyway?? look dude this is like starbucks rap. is e-40 copying those styles?? no. but he does have gucci mane guest verses ~~~think about it~~~

part lack of great gangster rap, part other factors that are harder to put a finger on

― hell hath no furry (J0rdan S.), Wednesday, 30 June 2010 23:06 (1 minute ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I don't think anyone disagrees that gucci would have been a star during the boom years, or even if he was just marketed better last year.

Matt- oh I am not saying Jay was treated like 3xdope but considering he had the biggest rap superstar bigging him up, no pun intended, then reasonable doubt... i don't think even going gold at the time just makes it seem like most people heard Aint No Nigga or I Know What Girls Like, thought it was the 'worst' side of bad boy mainstream pop (or were sick of that 7 minutes of funk break being used AGAIN) and just went meh, so what. Even if he did have bangers, and most people needed a late pass, at the time he was seen as a bit of a sideshow, non?

unlike jay-z and biggie (then), i'm not convinced gucci means much at all, persona-wise, to a non-rap audience

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:51 PM (20 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think jay-z then is absolutely comparable to gucci now. at least in the states. cmon didnt the uk just discover jay-z around '99 problems' anyway?? i mean everybody new 'big pimpin' but 'lemonade' has been all over radio for like 6 mo right now, not sure how its much different

"I don't think anyone disagrees that gucci would have been a star during the boom years, or even if he was just marketed better last year."

its not that he would be more popular during the boom years -- its just that youd have a way of actually measuring it back then! he is a star...?

he's definitely a rap star, full stop -- he's not a pop star tho

"lemonade" absolutely shoulda been his "rubberband man" tho

― لوووووووووووووووووووول (lex pretend), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 5:02 PM (11 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

how is it not?? did rubberband man chart any higher?

jay got minor uk chart hits from the off, first BIG hit was "hard knock life", which is when i first became aware of him

"a generic track that showcases gucci at his least gucci-y"

this is a 100% inaccurate description of 'wasted'

jeez you guys!

this is the best gucci mixtape in terms of rapping. it is completely mind blowing stuff imo but yeah i prob wouldnt try and get non-rap friends to listen to it. 7 years ago i might have but it kind of seems a different world in the uk anyway. i blame it mostly on the uk music industry deciding 5 or so years ago to push "real british indie music" over anything else. irrelevant here cos we are talking about a US rap artist i know but anyway.

still at a party a couple of weeks ago i put on 'wasted' pretty late and everyone went ham even if they'd never heard it before hah! this is the thing tho i still feel that non-rap people could still love a rapper like gucci but.....well i've no idea!?xxxxxxxxxxxxxxp

gucci is def more popular nationally than jay was around vol. 1. i can tell you that jay wasnt even that big in chicago til hard knock life. known by rap nerds bu that was it. EVERYONE who likes rap knows gucci

& so do lots & lots of pop fans. gucci is much more a crossover artist than jay was then

UK's love of hiphop post90s:

Slick Rick goes to jail, no-one really cares about the westcoast sound. Rap fans still f with the hardcore obv.
Fugees go huge, obv. Boom time for Bad Boy singles and sound, up until Hard Knock Life really.
UKG becomes more important while us rap sorts itself out.
Eminem and Outkast duh.
No-one really knows how to react to crunk.
Post crunk rappers be huge.
Dizzee and co do shiny bouncy shite, ppl feel let down by buying shitty kanye and 50 albums and hiphop is at a down period anyway so absolutely noone cares unless they read the rolling ringtone thread or write for the guardian.

Jay was always kinda a big deal post-Hard Knock Life. Big Pimpin, I Just Wanna Love U, Izzo were e'erywhere on the radio/mtv. kinda a big deal in a em/outkast > jay/lol ja rule > second tier way tho.

ummm deej...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URLtnX_YqXs

also waka flocka has a legitimate rap career solely because he was gucci's understudy, which is a classic sign of influence & popularity in rap music

so absolutely noone cares unless they read the rolling ringtone thread or write for the guardian.

lol otm

US rappers who do shiny bouncy shite are pretty huge atm - flo rida, t.i. thanks to "live your life" &c

also insert missy elliott and kanye west being two of the most popular US rappers in the UK, thanks largely to their sui generis nature

forgot missy exists :( also cannot see anyone care for anything kanye does anytime soon tbh

do <3 that busta was like the biggest rapper in uk popularity for like a year, gives me hope for the future

is t.i. actually huge though? maybe. it could just be a personal thing in that the ppl i know irl didn't give a shit abt 'king' or anything

Jay-Z Vol 3 is a guy coming off of a 4x platinum album and having a hit on the scale of "Big Pimpin'." there are no download statistics or regional radio spins you can wave around for Gucci that are comparable to that.

― ripe dink (some dude), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:48 PM (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

because no one goes platinum any more!!

― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 6:07 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

fucking C-Murder went multi plat, if you dont think gucci's selling at least that many copies you're crazy!

― blap...tremendo (deej), Wednesday, June 30, 2010 6:08 PM (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

of course Gucci's a bigger star than C-Murder ever was and of course it was easier to sell big numbers back then...but you said he's as big as Jay shortly after Hard Knock Life, which is insane.

i dunno theres this bizarre subset of rap songs that crossed over in the uk. like you can go out to a random club in any county town and they will regularly drop 'gravel pit' or something

i don't get this whole "noone listens to rap anymore" thing. EVERYONE under 40 pretty much listens to rap, possibly far more than in the '90s, even if it's just big singles or cheesy crossover artists that you don't consider real rap.