A new list to rip to shreds: Maxim's 30 Worst Albums of all Time.

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I'm trying to remember if the Alice Cooper number was halfway listenable

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:07 (twenty years ago) link

not the same brain trust outside the publishers, though! whatever my (very real) objections to Blender the people there do know music pretty well and i was genuinely impressed with some of their pix in that 500 essential cds thing they did a bit back (Shakira cover? i forget)--The Kings & QUeens of Township Jive and not Indestructible Beat, interesting and actually sort of right (K&Q is more fun than IB though I love both about equally).

and you will NOT EVER see me defending Conor Oberst so don't even try to pull that card Blount!

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

"Because," James, yes....and I stated as much earlier....but who was listening to me, eh? NO ONE apparently. Same as usual.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

and really, there may be worse records than the ost but how many of 'em do you actually want to hear?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

so is it, ah, worth taking apart the individual items on the list and whats said about them, or should we stick to sticking it to maxims puckishness?

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

exactly!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

I thought Blender and Maxim had the same braintrust?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

well yeah its not surprising but frankly i do expect a lot more from maxim than mojo!! if you want to talk about a newer use-other-words thing what about the bullshit about biggie putting out more stuff dead than when he was alive, first i dont even think thats technically true unless you count life after death and he was alive for the recording and mastering of that, but even if so is there any famous artist who died in their prime and then their label just like cut off their distribution entirely? this certainly isnt even true for maxims precious beatles!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:10 (twenty years ago) link

fck its hard to keep up here.

― gaz (gaz), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:11 (twenty years ago) link

i think all the invective i earned on this thread is just karma. i was rude and very troll-esque in my first posts to this thread.

i shall henceforth obey thumper's law.

― amateurist (amateurist), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:11 (twenty years ago) link

ha - I spent last night listening to Beatles albums backwards - get outta my head George Martin!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:12 (twenty years ago) link

(trife: FYI, i don't like much Def Jux stuff either. although I Phantom is pretty damn good. but yeah, i prolly listen to some hip hop you would consider shitty--and vice versa, but it's only a portion of the hip hop i listen to)(basically, i think you have a narrow view of what hip hop is/can be)

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:13 (twenty years ago) link

Jeezum. At this rate, this thread might rival the notorious Dave Matthews Band thread!

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:15 (twenty years ago) link

yeah again sorry oops i dont even really know what youre into, i like lots of undie stuff so its not about what it can or should be i just usually dont think underground stuff does 'it' well

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:18 (twenty years ago) link

trife if you ever do start djing you gotta play beatles albums backwards - it will go over very well in athens.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:19 (twenty years ago) link

Even more so in Sparta.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link

also i was more into undie stuff a few years ago so its probably hating on new jacks syndrome, as recent threads attest i still can feel roots black star etc whereas def jux (except rjd2!!) anticon etc totally repulse me

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link

blount i was gonna ask you, on the nyc pics thread you said millar looked and dressed like a friend of yours, did you mean jared? cuz jared doesnt dress like that!!!

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:21 (twenty years ago) link

Emerson Dameron

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

haha!!! he does kinda but jared is blonde and they have the same nose!! i saw emerson at the flagpole awards

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:26 (twenty years ago) link

(three or four years ago my roommate used to think jared was the guy from the dandy warhols?!?!!)

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

don't tell jared that

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:28 (twenty years ago) link

hey! I saw that

― jared or Emerson Dameron or whomever (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

heavens!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link

matos thats creepy

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link

< /;)>

― Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link

i guess you see now i had to call in sick again today!! god i hope tomorrow im better so i can avoid this ilx shit

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link

haha

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link

big mothafucking ditto!

― oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:36 (twenty years ago) link

trife have you heard Atmosphere? if so what think?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:37 (twenty years ago) link

they have (had maybe) it on vinyl at wuxtry!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link

haha - becuz of me

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link

i have not!!! a while back after i liked that cage song patrin said hed make me a mix of the new underground emo rap stuff but he never did : (

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:41 (twenty years ago) link

cocktease!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:43 (twenty years ago) link

Blount, I do this not because I agree with Amateurist but because you're so keen on mischaracterizing his point. I think he was pretty clear upthread when he said: (a) "it's like he's adopted a certain rhetoric for the sake of argument" and (b) "i don't doubt that you like those albums. . . . my point is that your opinions seem to be dominated by a puckishness and insouciance."

If I may read between the lines a little: I think Amateurist completely believes Chuck likes these albums, and just thinks Chuck acts precious special about that fact, to the point of either getting irritating or ceasing to offer worthwhile content.

If I may read between the lines further: I speculate that any such element of Chuck comes out more strongly on ILM, being that he's a successful music critic and most of us are not and thus he's in a position where one might naturally be expected to be a little puckish and insouciant.

I would also agree with the contention that being puckish and insouciant about such things can be entertaining, if it seems deserved and applied in moderation. I find it a little irritating when Chuck Klosterman does it. In my scant reading of Eddy I have never seen him cross the line enough to bug me with this, but I haven't read enough of his stuff to have much of an informed opinion. I am not, however, mystified by the idea that someone might detect and resent such a tendency.

Does that make more sense, James?

― nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:45 (twenty years ago) link

but Klosterman see's himself as a missionary/activist! Eddy just goes "I like this record", or, at his most vehement, "oh c'mon, this records better than that record" ie. like nearly EVERY OTHER ROCK CRITIC (some 'contrarian' tactic!). Klosterman's schtick is like nearly every other 'in my day, we had real music, then the world got ruined' only with him 'my day' /= Beatles, Sinatra, pre-countrypolitan Nashville, pre-Dre hip-hop, pre-be-bop Jazz, pre fusion-jazz, or pre-Marsalis Jazz, it = Riki Rachtman.

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:55 (twenty years ago) link

ie fanaticism vs. dilletantism maybe

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:55 (twenty years ago) link

Having pondered this thread I've reached two conclusions.

1. Maxim takes on tougher targets than does Alex in NYC or amst (shock! outrage! they named bad bands and didn't go after the backstreet boys -- coz nobodys ever gone against THEM before!! its like everyone's afraid of making fun of current teenpop! they're practically on pedestals with the lips of every rockcrit ever puckered against their ass!) or derogatis.

2. Amst complains when ppl. (me) mention things they like with some reasons (tiffany's we're both thinking of her tonight coz its a great heartbreak song) and don't include dissertations. This is a rockist dbl. standard coz sure i'd love to write a dissertation on Tiffany sometime (i actually wrote one -- or at least an article) but if amst. sez "I love the rolling stones" who's gonna go "dude you have some fucking nerve saying you like them without proving it. its like yr. just trying to upset my critical applecart for no reason you annoyingly puckish scamp." More to the point I've never ONCE seen amst. give any in-depth explanation for his like or dislike of ANY MUSIC EVER.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:57 (twenty years ago) link

trife, get hold of Lucy Ford--easily the best undie record of the past five years or thereabouts; really consistent lyrically, excellent beats too

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

Blount just summed up why I think Klosterman's an A-1 dillweed.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

ie. if amateurist isn't attacking the sincerity of his tastes but rather his 'debate methods' then how is saying ace of base > nirvana radically different than saying nirvana > ace of base (or sgt. pepper's ost > sgt. pepper's)(or nearly every rock 'debate' ever)?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:00 (twenty years ago) link

good lord this thread is a x-post jamboree!

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:00 (twenty years ago) link

Blount, I think you're misreading Klosterman a lot. he doesn't hate non-hair-metal by any means, and I've never seen him call that era a golden age that got ruined anywhere, ever.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:01 (twenty years ago) link

what was that ny times thing?

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:03 (twenty years ago) link

which one?

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:04 (twenty years ago) link

the 'waah why do critics pretend the ramones mattered more than ratt? fuck this revolution! god save the king (rachtman)!'

― James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:05 (twenty years ago) link

anyway i was arguing about the relative superiority of tiffany to debbie gibson! since its well established that the "critical consensus" i rail against considers debbie gibson part of the canon and tiffany worthless teen-pop tripe, then i guess that it was just trying to promote controversy from that gibson-lovin tiffany-hatin' buncha rockist losers.

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:07 (twenty years ago) link

iirc, though, that's not a golden-age piece, at least not in the "and then it was all ruined" sense you cite above. I thought it was quite a bit overstated but that's not what you're saying.

― M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link

Blount OTM. Matos is right in that Klosterman does like other stuff but it's insanely amusing how he sorta backs into it (like at the end of the paperback Fargo Rock City -- 'my favorite albums recently are by Radiohead but I CAN'T LOVE THEM LIKE HAIR METAL YOU DEAF BASTARDS CAN'T YOU HEAR THE GLORY.'

Sterling -- what if you hate (or love) both?

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link

oh klosterman is the dude who liked ratt more than the ramones!!! i never read his thing but i loved the thread about it

― trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:10 (twenty years ago) link

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