I read a great thing in Gina Arnold's book "Kiss This" about how the Bullet With Butterfly Wings video was based around this painting of children trying to get out of being trapped in a coal mine or something, and how incredibly obnoxious it was that Billy Corgan would equate his angst with such horrendous suffering. I liked parts of "Siamese Dream", but I think one album of semi- romantic angst and mediocre prog-Sabbath guitar work is enough. So Dud, for sticking around too long, and for inexplicably blaming their failure on Britney.
― Dave M., Saturday, 12 May 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― James Hunyar, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― stevo, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
'1979' is ok, but not as good as its title. Everything else is excrement.
― Michael Jones, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
.. then they started putting out shitty albums. I lost interest after Melon Collie. bloated wank. and his voice became ever-more- hideous. such sludge.. they'll be most useful in that regard for documenting very clearly a band just completely losing their artistic vision and soul. I've only heard 'Machina' once, but it was so lifeless...
that said, I'll list a few of their best rare tracks so that brave souls can attempt to get another perspective on the band. they did have a few obscure b-sides and such that won't likely turn up on any best hits collection. search for these on your favorite music- trading platform ..
* daughter - a rare demo from 1989 or so, just two minutes of ethereal guitar & singing
* siamese dream - the song, not the album. very lo-fi, scratchy acid folk piece
* pulseczar - feedback-drenched psychedelia. slightly twee, too.
* their cover of Depeche Mode's 'Never Let Me Down Again' - better than the original. very light touch, just guitar, bass, drums and for once not the 'soundwall' approach ... brings you up to an imagined peak, then lets you down ..
* their cover of 'Dancing in the Moonlight' - soft, acoustic. if you don't mind his voice, this is a great song.
* obscured - a slow, drifting rock song. spacey, but subdued. nice.
* smiley - slow, simple pop. his voice on the deep end for once.
* Eye - darkwave/synthpop song from the Lost Highway soundtrack, great if you like that sort of thing
* the Moby remix of '1979' - doesn't contain anything of the original song except for that skipping vocal 'tweee-ee' effect super- slowed down. the actual music itself isn't much like Moby's usual fare, especially not like 'Play' -- imagine if the Boards of Canada had a VERY bad trip. I love this song.
* Drown -- not the most rare Pumpkins song, it was on the Reality Bites soundtrack. 3 or so minutes of rock, then 4 of the best kind of guitar feedback drone, yumm..
* Starla - only if you're into guitar wankery. Corgan goes off for about 5 minutes, and most of it is actually pretty entertaining, if not exactly Fennesz..
― Dare, Monday, 15 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― chameleon, Wednesday, 17 October 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
gish, '89 demos, set the ray to jerry, cherry, obscured: classic i believe i speak for god album(s): dud everything else: i listened to it too much when i was 15
― Johan, Sunday, 25 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan, Monday, 26 November 2001 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
So, continuuing with my theory, if one were to just sort of cut and re-record, you'd probably have about two good albums out of all the b-sides, machina 1 & 2, and adore stuff out there, post-melon collie. Which is what, eight albums (including a double album) total? In less than 8 years? Sounds classic to me.
Or I could just say I like 1979 and a few of their other songs to sound hip.
― sean patrick, Sunday, 2 February 2003 00:54 (twenty-one years ago) link
Gish and Pisces Iscariot are also grate, and MCIS and Adore have a few nice songs (might as well join in on the "1979" praise here). Haven't heard anything off of Machina but I have a feeling I don't want to ;)
― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:32 (twenty-one years ago) link
I'm afraid I must object--Moby's remix is horribly dull. It's essentially just Billy's vocals over a repetitive electro beat (and he doesn't even go to any lengths to actually change the order of the verses). I'm a big fan of Moby's early work, but I can't stand to listen to this.
― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Curtis Stephens, Sunday, 2 February 2003 01:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
Half-Classic/Half-Dud. And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?
― Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Sunday, 2 February 2003 23:53 (twenty-one years ago) link
― gygax!, Monday, 3 February 2003 00:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
And this is a bad thing? Excuse me, I have to listen to some Muslimgauze now.
And why wasn't "The End Is The Beginning Is The End" or whatever that Last-Pumpkins-Video-In-Pants Batman song was called on Greatest Hits?
I think everyone involved with that film removed it from their resume.
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Juan (Juan), Monday, 3 February 2003 01:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Curtis Stephens, Monday, 3 February 2003 02:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
But the real reason I post here is merely to drop this bomb you can find posted at http://www.billycorgan.com/
You know that beatles song 'I'm so tired, I haven't slept a wink....'? I'm having one of those weeks...I just got 2 new kittens, brothers and sisters, named miss sami and mister thom cat...they are the best of friends, which is wonderful, but being young, they are into everything, including some things I didn't know you could get into...mister thom also seems to want to wake me up at 5am to say hello...well, the music for the rock and roll record is going really swell, just starting to get into a groove writing some songs...predominately focusing on melodies right now, leaving the words for a bit further down the road, which is unusual, but necessary...in the months to come, I am going to share some things with you that you have never heard me say...that doesn't mean I'm rewriting history, that means that I'm going to tell you the truth about who I am and what I believe in my heart...a lot of things that I have said thru the years seemed confusing, like I was hiding somethin!g, and often times I was...'why', you might ask? Many times I hid things to protect my band mates...for example, its been almost 4 years since I went on my friend tami's radio show and announced that the pumpkins were breaking up...that day, when she asked why we were breaking up, I said something silly like 'I'm tired of fighting britney blah blah'...and it went on to be widely quoted, as if I was breaking up my love, my band, because of some pop star...13 years of my life, and you know, let's pack it in cause their teeth are whiter...by saying that, I was seen as someone who was crying foul, taking his ball, and going home...which was sad cause it wans't true at all...The truth of the matter is is that james iha broke up the smashing pumpkins...not me, not jimmy, but james...did it help that d'arcy was fired for being a mean spirited drug addict, who refused to get help? No, that didn't help keep the band together, not at all...it made it very hard to go on, but we soldier! ed thru it even though our hearts were broken...But d'arcy didn't break up the band, we didn't let her...and jimmy didn't want to break up the band, not at that time...and I would have gone on forever...the smashing pumpkins were essentially my entire life...a dream I still believe in...many friends at that time suggested letting james leave, so jimmy and I could continue on under the name...but I was too loyal to the man I had started the whole thing with, and I protected him until the very end...right up until the last show on dec 2, 2000, when he thanked d'arcy on stage, but not the 2 men standing next to him...and I was loyal until he left the metro without even saying goodbye, or an 'its been great boys!', or a simple 'I love you' to us...no, james iha left the metro that night without saying goodbye to the 2 people he had won and lost and traveled the world with...so I won't be protecting him anymore...and I won't be protecting a whole lot of other people anymore...not because I don't love them (I do!!) but because ! I love myself too...I want to say one more thing, and that is I appreciate you reading this...+I want to remind you that I love you...God has given me the strength to say that to you, and I hope that you don't hide who you are...does it make me sad that I have hid myself all these years? No, it was what I had to do to survive, or at least what I 'thought' I needed to do...but surviving is not enough...we all deserve to flourish, and to know happiness and joy...that is my new dream...the smashing pumpkins gave me that, and I am eternally grateful...especially to those that shared in the dream with me...even if you bought just one cd, or came to a show, you gave us that chance...we thank you for that...even if we don't always know how to show it...be well!! William
Wow.
― Girolamo Savonarola, Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Ben Boyer (Ben Boyer), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:46 (twenty years ago) link
So, best of a bad lot, then. Neither classic nor dud. Good.
Say! Anybody heard that one album they did where they leaked it onto the Internet for free simply to piss off their record company?
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Thursday, 19 February 2004 00:58 (twenty years ago) link
― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:18 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:23 (twenty years ago) link
― morris pavilion (samjeff), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:30 (twenty years ago) link
― mei (mei), Thursday, 19 February 2004 01:40 (twenty years ago) link
i did not feel that a cd release on a major label that i was out there trying to hawk with a bunch of immoral band mates (that does not include jimmy, by the way...he is one of best men i know) was a place to talk about the deepest of issues...no, the internet is!!!
In other news, he's now gone public with an email address. Guess who's gonna have 1000+ emails by Sunday?
― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Girolamo Savonarola, Saturday, 27 March 2004 02:24 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:04 (twenty years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 27 March 2004 04:14 (twenty years ago) link
01. Melon Collie And The Infinite Sadness02. Tonight, Tonight03. Jellybelly04. Here Is No Why05. Bullet With Butterfly Wings06. Where Boys Fear To Tread07. Thirty-Three08. 197909. Thru The Eyes Of Ruby10. We Only Come Out At Night11. Beautiful12. Lily13. By Starlight14. Farewell And Goodnight
Truth be told, I could live without "Tonight" and "Thirty-Three" - I guess I included them out of some obligation to remain in the realm of the remotely possible. Billy is rather proud of these songs, I highly doubt he would have dispensed them.
― Squirrel_Police (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:32 (twenty years ago) link
― ipsofacto (ipsofacto), Monday, 5 April 2004 00:36 (twenty years ago) link
― latebloomer (latebloomer), Monday, 5 April 2004 02:09 (twenty years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 5 April 2004 02:11 (twenty years ago) link
― J-rock (Julien Sandiford), Monday, 5 April 2004 04:44 (twenty years ago) link
(after years of more or less rejecting Mellon Collie as the watershed "Billy is a snotty bastard" moment)
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:45 (nineteen years ago) link
― Matthew C Perpetua (inca), Sunday, 24 April 2005 02:50 (nineteen years ago) link
― I.M. (I.M.), Sunday, 24 April 2005 03:56 (nineteen years ago) link
A couple of days and a harrowing plane flight later, the band makes it to a resort town called Surfer's Paradise, which is more or less the Miami Beach of Australia, a skinny coastal town about an hour south of Brisbane, pounded by waves and plagued with jellyfish, crowded with high-rise hotels popular with JApanese honeymooners. Surfer's Paradise is the jumping-off point for the Big Day Out tour, a sort of Australian Lollapalooza that Soundgarden will headline this year. In the lobby bar of one of the tallest hotels, Cornell and Thayil are settling back with a couple of beers when Billy Corgan from Smashing Pumpkins wanders through, and decides to join them for a strawberry margarita. Corgan chatters about the pain of his life, the supposed incompetence of his band (everybody rolls their eyes), the lifesaving virtues of Jungian therapy, bands that suck. Cornell gets up to leave. Corgan tells Thayil how important Soundgarden used to be to him, and he baits him by saying that the Pumpkins sometimes do a cover of Soundgarden's "Outshined" that segues into a Depeche Mode song or something.
"I'm thinking of making my next album really new wave," Corgan says, "like '83-'84 new wave, not like Berlin. I spend all my time doing things that may be a bit tangential, but I think I'm going to go back to the core, the heart music. Echo and the Bunnymen."
This is standard stuff to anybody who has read even a single Billy Corgan profile, the basic curriculum of Pumpkins 101. But Thayil isn't buying. He's sore.
"Don't you see," Thayil says, "you're this incredibly talented guy. People like your music. You have a good band. You sell a lot of records. You don't need all this...stuff."
"What sign are you?" Corgan asks.
"What do you mean, what sign am I?" Thayil says. "What difference could that possibly make?"
"C'mon," wheedles Corgan, "when is your birthday?"
"All right, goddamn it: September 4th."
"Aha!" Corgan says. "A Virgo. You're argumentative."
"Damn right, I'm argumentative," Thayil says, and takes a long, angry pulll at his beer, "which you should know because I've been arguing with you for half an hour, not because of any sign."
"I'm a Pisces," Corgan replies. "We pick up on those things."
A minute later, Corgan, still probing, finally finds the key to Thayil's heart: "I hate how in magazine pictures, they always stick me somewhere in the back."
Thayil explodes: "What do you mean? You write all the songs, and you do all the interviews. You play the instruments on the album. You control the band to the extent that most people think of Smashing Pumpkins as the Billy Corgan Experience, and all you care about is some photograph?"
"But I hate it," Corgan says, "it means they don't think I'm the cute one."
"Ooh," Thayil says a little too loudly as Corgan walks away, "I'll bet he's going to call his therapist in Chicago, wake her up at four in the morning, and tell her about that big, mean bear who made fun of him."
The next day at the Big Day Out festival, Thayil is talking to Kim and Kelley Deal in the Breeders' dressing room when Corgan walks past wearing a long-sleeved Superman T-shirt like the one your four-year-old nephew probably owns.
"You hurt me deeply," Corgan says, touching the giant S on his chest and pouting. "You hurt me deeply in my heart." The Pumpkins go on to play the best set anybody has ever heard them play, their usual passiveness and precision overlaid with an unfamiliar scrim of anger that throws their music into brilliant relief.
Matt Cameron is a little astounded. "Kim should rent himself out as a tour shrink," he says.
― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 24 April 2005 04:11 (nineteen years ago) link
I did like part of Siamese Dream back in the 90's.. in high school we used to torture certain punX0rs with deliberately off key and absurd renditions of "Disarm." And I still regard "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" as a watershed moment in the evolution of my musical tastes - the moment when I fully realized how rock lyrics could really, really, really suck. ("Holy shit, did he just say despite all my rage, I am still just a rat in a cage???") It opened a new portal in my awareness of language, I think.
― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 24 April 2005 04:14 (nineteen years ago) link
pffffAHAHAAAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!wooo!man, that's good stuff right there...there was some other spin article (same time frame i think) where corgan's downing screw drivers and bitching about the fans that's equally as classic.geez, billy + co. were better when megadoses of LSD were involved. which they were up until the end o' 94. the anger, the lovely unfocused anger and confusion, the manic panic hair.
one thing i'll give billy c., his style of 'rawking out' has far surpassed many, i love the way he used to "throw" his guitar down for a big chunky sludge deal! it was over-dramatized but highly entertaining to watch. especially when he jumped and did it.
everything after MCIS (and even parts of that) were utterly suspect and 'meh'. machina 2 being the exception, where free+rawkin collided to make 'good'.
so, classic 91-95(6?) then a little at the end. dud the rest of the way thru. SD=the album that made me listen again and again, on headphones, because i couldn't tell what the fuck that noise was @ _____ time in the song ______. few albums seem so dense, still! i know it's because of vig and his "HUGE" production, but it really works there!
― eedd, Sunday, 24 April 2005 11:00 (nineteen years ago) link
― Space Is the Place (Space Is the Place), Sunday, 24 April 2005 12:35 (nineteen years ago) link
hahahah....wow! What a jackass I was. I still kinda believe it, but what a needlessly obnoxious statement.
There are some fine moments on Gish (notably "Bury Me"), but I found Corgan entirely insufferable after that.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Sunday, 24 April 2005 13:10 (nineteen years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Sunday, 24 April 2005 13:46 (nineteen years ago) link
I've been misquoting this all these years! I forgot the 'deeply'!
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Sunday, 24 April 2005 13:59 (nineteen years ago) link
― mono.mono (mono.mono), Sunday, 24 April 2005 14:40 (nineteen years ago) link
OTM.
― latebloomer: But when the monkey die, people gonna cry. (latebloomer), Sunday, 24 April 2005 15:04 (nineteen years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan (alex63), Sunday, 24 April 2005 15:14 (nineteen years ago) link
I'm always disturbed to find that something I've been saying for ten years came from some rock star interview circa 1995. It has happened. WTF.
― daria g (daria g), Sunday, 24 April 2005 16:46 (nineteen years ago) link
Also, Chamberlin = vastly underrated drummer.
― cdwill, Sunday, 24 April 2005 19:23 (nineteen years ago) link
I recently started listening to Bandsplain and the Pumpkins episode is really good. Acknowledges all the great stuff and is more patient with some of the later material than I am. It works to understand Billy and not just make fun of him, although there’s some of that too. I had no idea what a bummer his home life was as a kid.
I have no interest in anything new that he does but I keep up for old times sake.
― Cow_Art, Friday, 12 May 2023 23:07 (eleven months ago) link
*sounds like it would be, i haven't bothered to track down a copy of it and probably won't
― ufo, Friday, 12 May 2023 23:07 (eleven months ago) link
i'm listening to atum the whole way through right now and it is so much better than that psychedelic record
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 21:08 (eleven months ago) link
act one much better than i remembered. the lyrics and production are ridiculous and i admit i have more tolerance for synth-pop billy than most but a bunch of genuinely cool melodies are anchoring this thing
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 21:12 (eleven months ago) link
somehow missed the backing meows in "moss" the first time i heard it lol
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 21:53 (eleven months ago) link
"every morning" is totally like billy telling himself he's gonna work himself back into that "set the ray to jerry" space and i think it's pretty successful
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 22:00 (eleven months ago) link
oh i had totally forgotten that it then turns into a celestial new order song
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 22:04 (eleven months ago) link
best pumpkins song since machina, maybe even adore
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 22:05 (eleven months ago) link
i wouldn't take it over the better tracks on machina but it's much better than most post-machina tracks yeah
just a little frustrating because if new order had written it there'd be at least one more synth part or something, it's just a little bit empty?
― ufo, Saturday, 13 May 2023 22:27 (eleven months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsN5bH-gRjI
act three rules lol
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Saturday, 13 May 2023 22:53 (eleven months ago) link
all right i've already finished my reduction
1. atum2. that which animates the spirit3. the good in goodbye4. hooligan5. the canary trainer6. cenotaph7. steps in time8. in lieu of failure9. harmageddon10. pacer11. the culling12. every morning13. avalanche
https://open.spotify.com/playlist/28sknca2WekASmbgJdTg1y?si=d84f356672314f07
^^^ this album rules, there are arguments for me cutting more bc it's 56 minutes long but most of the classic pumpkins albums sail past 50 so whatever, wanted to give this a proper arc and make the sequence feel intentional and atmospheric (the full album sequence is... pretty arbitrary)
genuinely surprised at how much i like the whole thing tho
― flamenco drop (BradNelson), Sunday, 14 May 2023 00:15 (eleven months ago) link
I listened to the new Smashing Pumpkins record. It's like Corgan decided to make all four Kiss solo records and all of them sound like the one made by Peter Criss.— Brian O'Neill (@NYC__Native) May 7, 2023
― Loud guitars shit all over "Bette Davis Eyes" (NYCNative), Sunday, 14 May 2023 02:30 (eleven months ago) link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzwOwzGtiZw
― MaresNest, Saturday, 2 September 2023 22:27 (seven months ago) link
Ladies and gentlemen, this just happened. Smashing Pumpkins’ Billy Corgan singing about Bozo sidekick Wizzo the Wizard alongside a Wizzo lookalike pic.twitter.com/a0n9ukYdqO— Mark Guess (@markguess) January 1, 2024
― ufo, Monday, 1 January 2024 10:11 (three months ago) link
the core, the heart music
― il lavoro mi rovina la giornata (PBKR), Monday, 1 January 2024 16:39 (three months ago) link
https://madamezuzus.com/products/siamese-dream-30th-anniversary-cassette-tape-and-candle-box-set
― brimstead, Thursday, 4 January 2024 03:39 (three months ago) link
lmao
https://x.com/SmashingPumpkin/status/1743340804368646440?s=20
― Murgatroid, Friday, 5 January 2024 19:40 (three months ago) link
whoops
pic.twitter.com/9cRmUWMeUj— The Smashing Pumpkins (@SmashingPumpkin) January 5, 2024
― Murgatroid, Friday, 5 January 2024 19:41 (three months ago) link
"With notes of subterranean rehearsal spaces..."
Ummm
― MaresNest, Friday, 5 January 2024 19:46 (three months ago) link
Someone joked that Stephen Malkmus should audition.
― birdistheword, Saturday, 6 January 2024 01:30 (three months ago) link
Why is it big music news that the 2024 Smashing Pumpkins are looking for a new third guitar player(?)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 6 January 2024 02:20 (three months ago) link
because they're making it an open audition along with a janky graphic that was thrown together in 2 minutes on Microsoft Paint? I thought the humor in this situation was readily apparent but you never know with ILX
― Murgatroid, Saturday, 6 January 2024 03:26 (three months ago) link
It’s being reported everywhere (example)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 6 January 2024 03:32 (three months ago) link
I mean I guess it’s somewhat unusual for a band that still fills large venues (even if they’re decades past their prime) to hold an open audition, but I’m surprised even SP fans would care much about this.
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 6 January 2024 03:42 (three months ago) link
It’s a Smashing Pumpkins thread tbf
― bae (sic), Saturday, 6 January 2024 05:13 (three months ago) link
Yeah I didn’t mean this thread, but never mind me. (Like former guitarist Jeff Schroeder, I will be watching and listening!)
― Wooly Bully (2005 Remaster) (morrisp), Saturday, 6 January 2024 06:12 (three months ago) link
I have tickets to see them in July, in Gliwice, Poland of all places. Twenty-eight years after my last SP show…
― Sam Weller, Saturday, 6 January 2024 07:07 (three months ago) link
Maybe learn the chords to a few of the songs?
― assert (matttkkkk), Saturday, 6 January 2024 11:22 (three months ago) link
The fuck is Corgan wearing in that photo?
― I would prefer not to. (Chinaski), Saturday, 6 January 2024 12:10 (three months ago) link
This is one helluva clip…
― cellaring potential (morrisp), Tuesday, 23 January 2024 02:36 (three months ago) link
Jesus Christ that rocks
― brimstead, Tuesday, 23 January 2024 03:17 (three months ago) link