Is the work of Steven Soderbergh the most overrated thing ever?

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i hate every movie this fucker's been involved with

strgn, Saturday, 9 June 2007 09:26 (sixteen years ago) link

NO TOPHER GRACE NO CREDIBILITY

haha! but armen weitzman was pretty good, no? plus, the return of vincent cassel? jerry weintraub as the lead whale? David Paymer!

What I liked best about the second is that they didn't even pretend that the caper(s) made sense. It was just Hollywood Glamour by way of Godard in pretty locales. This one's shot in the same way, but there's less room for the characters riffing together and having fun.

oh i don't know about making no sense. otherwise yeah, maybe, but the snippets were still pretty fun this time around. and mexico. and all the old-vegas/hollywood/reuben stuff. and roman-greco/analog-digital. and george&brad as women/the charity/oprah. the real-life/relationship stuff. "Fender Roads"

gabbneb, Saturday, 9 June 2007 14:17 (sixteen years ago) link

every time i try to watch one of these ocean's movies i fall asleep in the middle and wake up at the end completely bewildered.

akm, Saturday, 9 June 2007 14:28 (sixteen years ago) link

actually this happened with the bourne movies too. maybe it's matt damon

akm, Saturday, 9 June 2007 14:28 (sixteen years ago) link

i agree that Caldwell pere wasn't all it could have been (maybe that's for 14? that wasn't telegraphed or anything), but the Linus stuff remained pretty fun

gabbneb, Saturday, 9 June 2007 14:30 (sixteen years ago) link

i saw the first 'oceans', it was pointless shit, and it's a kind of "phenomenon" now, and in thirty years god help us, clip shows will look upon it as the acme of 00s cool, for serious. the lame thing about soderbergh is that his 'one for them, one for me' strategy doesn't actually lead to very exciting 'one for me projects'. i say this having not bothered with 'bubble', 'the good german', or that self-referential one, but the point stands. i liked 'out of sight', it had a fine cast, but at this stage that's about as much enthusiasm as i can summon. may be i should 'rescreen' some. maybe not though, there's only so much time on this earth.

That one guy that quit, Saturday, 9 June 2007 14:34 (sixteen years ago) link

Everything Soderbergh I've seen is shit, except Schizopolis which I guess is like his one fluke, as it's pretty much genius. I'm not sure how that worked out.

billstevejim, Sunday, 10 June 2007 15:02 (sixteen years ago) link

Saw Erin Brockovich again a few weekends ago; it holds better than any of his others (save Out of Sight).

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Sunday, 10 June 2007 15:27 (sixteen years ago) link

something about his style just flattens everything. all the jump cuts and ppl talking over each other comes off as planned and over rehearsed, just like the heist itself, they've planned everything in advance and are just going through the motions being pleased with themselves & only concerned about looking cool. what godard i've seen is reckless and exuberant, like they don't know what'll happen next. steven soderbergh, proof that cool is over.

daria-g, Sunday, 10 June 2007 17:47 (sixteen years ago) link

saw oceans 13 last night and thought it was incredibly shit. i think soderburgh is just making whatever gets him a cheque at this point. didnt really laugh once in the whole film (ok maybe once) but found the whole thing too smug in its 'coolness'. and the pastiched 70s soundtrack was even worse.

titchyschneiderMk2, Sunday, 10 June 2007 19:03 (sixteen years ago) link

also pacino just seemed to barely be trying as the hotel owner, and izzard just seemed deeply uninteresting, flat and devoid of personality. i know im meant to find this sort of film 'smooth' but i just found it a bit irritating in its complete and total lack of rough edges (narrative or visual).

titchyschneiderMk2, Sunday, 10 June 2007 19:06 (sixteen years ago) link

are there really people who look at clooney & co and think that they either are, or are trying to be, 'cool'?

gabbneb, Monday, 11 June 2007 04:42 (sixteen years ago) link

yes. many, many people.

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 11 June 2007 09:41 (sixteen years ago) link

i know im meant to find this sort of film 'smooth' but i just found it a bit irritating in its complete and total lack of rough edges (narrative or visual).

Why is this bad?

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 11 June 2007 11:26 (sixteen years ago) link

seemed a bit smug.

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 11 June 2007 11:31 (sixteen years ago) link

i dont *hate* soderburgh though. i still really like sex lies and videotape. i think i liked traffic too, even if i remember it being a bit heavy handed.

titchyschneiderMk2, Monday, 11 June 2007 11:34 (sixteen years ago) link

The first person to ask me for my opinion mentioned something about hoping it was too overdone. Overdone? That's the damn point of the franchise!

So the Oprah shit carried a fair amount of disdain for her antics, or was it just me laughing?

mh, Monday, 11 June 2007 13:40 (sixteen years ago) link

i don't know i actually love some of his stuff... Traffic, Brockovich, Ocean's 11, all of that stuff really, really satisfied me. Esp Erin Brockovich, which i own and love

Surmounter, Monday, 11 June 2007 14:13 (sixteen years ago) link

i actaully own Traffic too

Surmounter, Monday, 11 June 2007 14:15 (sixteen years ago) link

People expecting this to somehow not be a cross between an Altman ensemble piece and James Bond are seriously misinformed

TOMBOT, Monday, 11 June 2007 14:17 (sixteen years ago) link

I liked Solaris an awful lot, along with Ocean's Eleven. And Out of Sight.

Hey Jude, Tuesday, 12 June 2007 05:04 (sixteen years ago) link

nine months pass...

caught the end of Ocean's Eleven last night and could not but feel: such banter and panache, such self-pleasuring cinematic ease. I was deeply impressed anew somehow, and felt that David Thomson must love this picture - especially with its sentimental efforts to admire a pensive or conflicted Julia Roberts. But maybe he doesn't. It just felt like he should.

the pinefox, Monday, 24 March 2008 17:38 (sixteen years ago) link

yeah he doesn't.

banriquit, Monday, 24 March 2008 17:40 (sixteen years ago) link

will he like his 2 Che films tho

Dr Morbius, Monday, 24 March 2008 17:41 (sixteen years ago) link

He REALLY doesn't.

(xpost)

Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Monday, 24 March 2008 17:42 (sixteen years ago) link

The semi-subtle this-is-what's-happening-in-America/the-world nods seemed more prominent in 13, as noted above, but they've also jumped out at me more in my, ahem, rescreening of the earlier films.

If pf likes the end of 11 (or the Venetian scene in 13), he should see the original, also referenced above.

gabbneb, Monday, 24 March 2008 18:13 (sixteen years ago) link

one year passes...

Well, Sex, Lies, and Videotape holds up better than I thought.

I'm crossing over into enterprise (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:00 (fifteen years ago) link

has a call-girl movie coming out in May, shot w/ newer version of the Che HD camera.

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:06 (fifteen years ago) link

we shot our movie on that!

s1ocki, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link

And real porn stars, no?

naturally unfunny, though mechanically sound (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link

xp

naturally unfunny, though mechanically sound (Pancakes Hackman), Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:12 (fifteen years ago) link

Real porn stars are hurting from free porn downloads so any work is good.

Alex in SF, Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:15 (fifteen years ago) link

Real porn stars are paid to be hurting tho so it's all good.

Easy Hippo Rider (Noodle Vague), Wednesday, 22 April 2009 23:17 (fifteen years ago) link

http://jezebel.com/5234491/the-girlfriend-experience-blurs-the-line-between-fantasy-reality

his quotes here make him sound like a fucking moron.

it might make a better film than 'che' at least.

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Thursday, 30 April 2009 23:19 (fifteen years ago) link

This doesn't sound very good.

Alex in SF, Thursday, 30 April 2009 23:25 (fifteen years ago) link

Hey in schizopolis, there's a segment where they start speaking in grammatical descriptions of the dialogue instead of actual dialogue, but I heard a similar thing put on by a comedy? troupe on this american life -- was this tribute or outright pilfering?

Philip Nunez, Thursday, 30 April 2009 23:53 (fifteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

Glenn Kenny on his role in The Girlfriend Experience:

http://www.theauteurs.com/notebook/posts/672

(now I don't have to be tempted to report what I overheard him say about it in a screening room)

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 20 May 2009 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link

COME ON

s1ocki, Wednesday, 20 May 2009 14:34 (fourteen years ago) link

did u see it?

s1ocki, Wednesday, 20 May 2009 14:35 (fourteen years ago) link

no.

Nothing spectacular, he just said what I'm sure will be in these two articles.

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 20 May 2009 14:56 (fourteen years ago) link

there didn't seem to be anything particularly revealing or surprising in those posts

Ømår Littel (Jordan), Friday, 22 May 2009 21:39 (fourteen years ago) link

lol ebert (four * review): Chelsea is played by Sasha Grey. She is 21. Since 2006, according to IMDb, she's made 161 porn films, of which only the first title can be quoted here: "Sasha Grey Superslut." No, here's another, which makes me smile: "My First Porn #7." I haven't seen any of them, but now I would like to see one, watching very carefully, to see if she suggests more than one level.

Ømår Littel (Jordan), Friday, 22 May 2009 22:34 (fourteen years ago) link

two weeks pass...

lol i did not know that was glenn kenny in that scene. think he should star in a biopic of jim toback

movie was ok liked it lots more than che

johnny crunch, Tuesday, 9 June 2009 13:25 (fourteen years ago) link

three weeks pass...

In Skittish Hollywood, Stars Can’t Save ‘Moneyball’

By MICHAEL CIEPLY, NY Times

LOS ANGELES — In a production office here, at least a couple of would-be film workers were still hanging around on Monday, hoping in vain to score with their troubled baseball movie “Moneyball.”

But they had swung, and missed.

The powers at Sony Pictures, which was supposed to finance the film, and the Creative Artists Agency, whose prize client Brad Pitt had agreed to star in it, were, meanwhile, wrapping up a rhubarb with the director Steven Soderbergh, a clutch of producers and each other. This followed Sony’s decision to halt the picture just days before shooting was to have begun in Los Angeles, Oakland and Phoenix last week.

The last-minute demise of a high-profile film project, especially one starring an A-list star like Mr. Pitt, is Hollywood’s equivalent of a bridge collapse. Painful, expensive, and damaging to all involved, the spectacle is rare. It happened with “Used Guys,” a high-priced comedy at 20th Century Fox in 2006.

But such disasters — this one is estimated to have cost Sony $10 million in development and pre-production costs — may become more common as an increasingly nervous film business comes to terms with a sharp decline in home video revenue, the diminishing power of even the most popular stars to muscle their projects into production and new uncertainty over complicated bets like “Moneyball.”

“They’re much more careful about doing a movie just because a star wants to do it,” said Eric Weissmann, a long-time entertainment lawyer who recalled the days when Warner Brothers made a film, “An Enemy of the People,” based on an Ibsen play, largely because Steve McQueen wanted to do it.

“Moneyball,” which is based on a 2003 nonfiction book by Michael Lewis, is supposed to tell the story of Billy Beane, the Oakland Athletics general manager who figured out how to build a winning team on the cheap with players who were undervalued by the conventional measures of success in baseball.

Not hugely expensive — the budget was estimated at around $57 million — but not a small indie project, either, the film was of a sophisticated type that needs the cachet of a Soderbergh, the star power of a Pitt and perhaps Academy Awards potential to overcome its somewhat cerebral quality and the difficulty of attracting foreign viewers for American-based sports pictures.

But some of those elements collided in the last few weeks, increasing doubts that Hollywood — where specialty divisions like Warner Independent Pictures and Paramount Vantage have been closed or diminished — is losing its ability to deliver tricky but appealing pictures like “Good Night, and Good Luck” or “The Curious Case of Benjamin Button,” which earned Oscar nominations for George Clooney (as a director) and Mr. Pitt (as a star).

As of Tuesday, “Moneyball” was back in development, with Sony executives still hoping at some point to work with Mr. Pitt. But Mr. Soderbergh was off the project. And the studio was gearing up eventually to find someone who would direct something more like the version of the script written by the Oscar-winner Steven Zaillian than the rewritten version by Mr. Soderbergh that scuttled the project.

But that might bring problems of its own. One of the reasons Mr. Soderbergh made his script changes was to win the approval of Major League Baseball, which was not happy with some factual liberties in Mr. Zaillian’s version. Such approval is crucial in a reality-based baseball film that intends to use protected trademarks.

“Typically, on a film like this, we look at it for historical accuracy,” said Matthew Bourne, a public relations vice-president for Major League Baseball. “We’re been in touch with Soderbergh and Sony, and they’ve been receptive to our requests” Mr. Bourne said.

Representatives of Sony, Mr. Pitt, and Mr. Soderbergh all declined to discuss “Moneyball.” But accounts from more than a dozen people involved with the film, who spoke on condition of anonymity to avoid damaging professional relationships, described a process in which the heady thrill of a film rushing toward production was halted by a studio that was suddenly confronted by plans for something artier and more complex than it had bargained for.

A central player in the drama has been Amy Pascal, Sony’s co-chairman, and an executive known for taking a strong hand in the development of scripts. Ms. Pascal and her team became involved with “Moneyball” about six years ago, when a relatively untested producer, Rachael Horovitz, brought the book to Sony with a screenwriter, Stan Chervin, after virtually every other buyer in Hollywood had passed.

Stephen Rivele and Christopher Wilkinson — writers who had worked with Sony on pictures like “Ali” — also wrote a draft. Then Mr. Chervin returned to work with the director David Frankel, who opted to do “Marley & Me” instead.

Mr. Pitt, a fan of the book, meanwhile had become interested, putting the film on a fast track at Sony, which, hired Mr. Zaillian, another of the studio’s favorites, to do another rewrite, even as it agreed to bring on Mr. Soderbergh as the director.

While he has scored big with studio projects like the “Ocean’s Eleven” series with Mr. Pitt, Mr. Soderbergh remains one of Hollywood’s most self-consciously distinctive directors. He serves as his own cinematographer, often contributes to scripts and has worked lately on a series of challenging, low-budget films like his two-part “Che,” a Spanish-language movie that made its debut both in a small number of theaters and on pay-per-view.

Two weeks ago, a mismatch in both personal style and expectations proved fatal to “Moneyball.” Mr. Soderbergh, about a week before shooting, delivered his own revision of the script, which Sony executives saw as being far more documentary-like than Mr. Zaillian’s approach.

The executives, who had just seen disappointing results from “The Taking of Pelham 123” and “Year One,” rebelled.

It cannot have helped that the new script showed up just days after an announcement in Washington that Sony was about to begin an elaborate production by yet another studio favorite, the writer-director James L. Brooks, with Owen Wilson and Reese Witherspoon. The untitled new movie is a romantic comedy set in the world of — baseball.

The situation was particularly ticklish, given Mr. Pascal’s close professional relationship with Bryan Lourd, the Creative Artists partner who serves as one of Mr. Pitt’s agents. In a highly unusual arrangement, when the studio decided to pull the plug on Mr. Soderbergh’s film, it allowed representatives for him, Mr. Pitt and the producers a weekend-long window to shop the film to Paramount, where Mr. Pitt is closely allied with the studio chief, Brad Grey, and Warner, where both Mr. Pitt and Mr. Soderbergh have strong ties.

Both studios, however, immediately passed.

Through last week, the “Moneyball” team looked for a compromise that might restart the film, which was already weeks into its expensive prep period. But Fox, which also got a look, joined those who passed.

And by this week, the movie, at least in its current configuration, was dead. Mr. Pitt’s representatives had an eye out for his next picture. Mr. Soderbergh’s were looking for ways to assure that his valuable, if somewhat eccentric, career, would not be harmed by the debacle.

And those who looked forward to “Moneyball,” the film, were waiting to see whether Hollywood might still figure it out.

“There’s a movie in there,” Mr. Wilkinson said on Monday. “But it’s a very unusual movie.”

Copyright 2009 The New York Times Company

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:15 (fourteen years ago) link

god $57 million for a frickin baseball executive movie?

call all destroyer, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:18 (fourteen years ago) link

is Dubya in it?

My name is Kenny! (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:21 (fourteen years ago) link

three cheers for sony imho. soderbergh's personal/serious/arty films have a very low strike rate.

the informant looks pretty dece.

FREE DOM AND ETHAN (special guest stars mark bronson), Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:23 (fourteen years ago) link

yeah i was lollin at the informant trailer

rip dom passantino 3/5/09 never forget (max), Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:32 (fourteen years ago) link

max, $57 M is dirt-cheap for any Brad Pitt-starring film.

enrique, you're such a pro-shit scumbag.

Dr Morbius, Wednesday, 1 July 2009 15:39 (fourteen years ago) link


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