A new list to rip to shreds: Maxim's 30 Worst Albums of all Time.

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Emerson Dameron

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:24 (twenty years ago) link

haha!!! he does kinda but jared is blonde and they have the same nose!! i saw emerson at the flagpole awards

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:26 (twenty years ago) link

(three or four years ago my roommate used to think jared was the guy from the dandy warhols?!?!!)

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

don't tell jared that

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:28 (twenty years ago) link

hey! I saw that

jared or Emerson Dameron or whomever (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:29 (twenty years ago) link

heavens!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link

matos thats creepy

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link

< /;)>

Cozen (Cozen), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:31 (twenty years ago) link

i guess you see now i had to call in sick again today!! god i hope tomorrow im better so i can avoid this ilx shit

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link

haha

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link

also i was more into undie stuff a few years ago so its probably hating on new jacks syndrome, as recent threads attest i still can feel roots black star etc whereas def jux (except rjd2!!) anticon etc totally repulse me

big mothafucking ditto!

oops (Oops), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:36 (twenty years ago) link

trife have you heard Atmosphere? if so what think?

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:37 (twenty years ago) link

they have (had maybe) it on vinyl at wuxtry!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link

haha - becuz of me

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:39 (twenty years ago) link

i have not!!! a while back after i liked that cage song patrin said hed make me a mix of the new underground emo rap stuff but he never did : (

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:41 (twenty years ago) link

cocktease!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:43 (twenty years ago) link

Blount, I do this not because I agree with Amateurist but because you're so keen on mischaracterizing his point. I think he was pretty clear upthread when he said: (a) "it's like he's adopted a certain rhetoric for the sake of argument" and (b) "i don't doubt that you like those albums. . . . my point is that your opinions seem to be dominated by a puckishness and insouciance."

If I may read between the lines a little: I think Amateurist completely believes Chuck likes these albums, and just thinks Chuck acts precious special about that fact, to the point of either getting irritating or ceasing to offer worthwhile content.

If I may read between the lines further: I speculate that any such element of Chuck comes out more strongly on ILM, being that he's a successful music critic and most of us are not and thus he's in a position where one might naturally be expected to be a little puckish and insouciant.

I would also agree with the contention that being puckish and insouciant about such things can be entertaining, if it seems deserved and applied in moderation. I find it a little irritating when Chuck Klosterman does it. In my scant reading of Eddy I have never seen him cross the line enough to bug me with this, but I haven't read enough of his stuff to have much of an informed opinion. I am not, however, mystified by the idea that someone might detect and resent such a tendency.

Does that make more sense, James?

nabisco (nabisco), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:45 (twenty years ago) link

but Klosterman see's himself as a missionary/activist! Eddy just goes "I like this record", or, at his most vehement, "oh c'mon, this records better than that record" ie. like nearly EVERY OTHER ROCK CRITIC (some 'contrarian' tactic!). Klosterman's schtick is like nearly every other 'in my day, we had real music, then the world got ruined' only with him 'my day' /= Beatles, Sinatra, pre-countrypolitan Nashville, pre-Dre hip-hop, pre-be-bop Jazz, pre fusion-jazz, or pre-Marsalis Jazz, it = Riki Rachtman.

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:55 (twenty years ago) link

ie fanaticism vs. dilletantism maybe

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:55 (twenty years ago) link

Having pondered this thread I've reached two conclusions.

1. Maxim takes on tougher targets than does Alex in NYC or amst (shock! outrage! they named bad bands and didn't go after the backstreet boys -- coz nobodys ever gone against THEM before!! its like everyone's afraid of making fun of current teenpop! they're practically on pedestals with the lips of every rockcrit ever puckered against their ass!) or derogatis.

2. Amst complains when ppl. (me) mention things they like with some reasons (tiffany's we're both thinking of her tonight coz its a great heartbreak song) and don't include dissertations. This is a rockist dbl. standard coz sure i'd love to write a dissertation on Tiffany sometime (i actually wrote one -- or at least an article) but if amst. sez "I love the rolling stones" who's gonna go "dude you have some fucking nerve saying you like them without proving it. its like yr. just trying to upset my critical applecart for no reason you annoyingly puckish scamp." More to the point I've never ONCE seen amst. give any in-depth explanation for his like or dislike of ANY MUSIC EVER.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:57 (twenty years ago) link

trife, get hold of Lucy Ford--easily the best undie record of the past five years or thereabouts; really consistent lyrically, excellent beats too

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

Blount just summed up why I think Klosterman's an A-1 dillweed.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 22:59 (twenty years ago) link

ie. if amateurist isn't attacking the sincerity of his tastes but rather his 'debate methods' then how is saying ace of base > nirvana radically different than saying nirvana > ace of base (or sgt. pepper's ost > sgt. pepper's)(or nearly every rock 'debate' ever)?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:00 (twenty years ago) link

good lord this thread is a x-post jamboree!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:00 (twenty years ago) link

Blount, I think you're misreading Klosterman a lot. he doesn't hate non-hair-metal by any means, and I've never seen him call that era a golden age that got ruined anywhere, ever.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:01 (twenty years ago) link

what was that ny times thing?

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:03 (twenty years ago) link

which one?

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:04 (twenty years ago) link

the 'waah why do critics pretend the ramones mattered more than ratt? fuck this revolution! god save the king (rachtman)!'

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:05 (twenty years ago) link

anyway i was arguing about the relative superiority of tiffany to debbie gibson! since its well established that the "critical consensus" i rail against considers debbie gibson part of the canon and tiffany worthless teen-pop tripe, then i guess that it was just trying to promote controversy from that gibson-lovin tiffany-hatin' buncha rockist losers.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:07 (twenty years ago) link

iirc, though, that's not a golden-age piece, at least not in the "and then it was all ruined" sense you cite above. I thought it was quite a bit overstated but that's not what you're saying.

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link

Blount OTM. Matos is right in that Klosterman does like other stuff but it's insanely amusing how he sorta backs into it (like at the end of the paperback Fargo Rock City -- 'my favorite albums recently are by Radiohead but I CAN'T LOVE THEM LIKE HAIR METAL YOU DEAF BASTARDS CAN'T YOU HEAR THE GLORY.'

Sterling -- what if you hate (or love) both?

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:08 (twenty years ago) link

oh klosterman is the dude who liked ratt more than the ramones!!! i never read his thing but i loved the thread about it

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:10 (twenty years ago) link

Same guy, yeah. And good on him for sticking by his guns, bad on him for not getting that others might disagree...

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:11 (twenty years ago) link

another joke crashes on the shoals of ilm literalis... fuck it.

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:12 (twenty years ago) link

ned do you hate affirmative action??

trife (simon_tr), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:13 (twenty years ago) link

sterling you're nuts if you think tiffany's better (musically) than deborah gibson!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:14 (twenty years ago) link

I love everything and everyone! I love Sterling for binarism rather than multiplicity!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:14 (twenty years ago) link

but Ned that afterward is more an admission that Radiohead can't mean as much to him because he's not a teenager anymore, not "hair metal are better"

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link

the weird thing about tiffany vs. deborah is that deborah's better at dance numbers even though her heart's in ballads and tiffany's better at ballads even though her heart's in dance numbers - cruel, cruel fate!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:16 (twenty years ago) link

tiffany finally gave up dance numbers for ballads and she's the better for it (her heart never WAS in dance numbers i think tho).

i'd say more tiffany was APPRECIATED for dance numbers and deborah for ballads. but deborah hand so little range, a comparatively weak voice, and even her dance-numbers were pretty damn go nowhere. (out of the blue was the first tape i ever bought tho and it has a special place in my heart even if for no other reason.)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:22 (twenty years ago) link

Dunno, Matos, my reading of it -- and I admit I only read it once -- wasn't quite so clear-cut. Klosterman, for me, comes across as ultimately bitter at his worst by saying that 1) there's a rock canon formed without his consent or input and 2) that people can have different interpretations of something that was indeed huge and omnipresent from what he has. There's a lightness in tone -- not necessarily in terms of the meat of his argument but in style and approach -- that is missing which I think would do him good if it were there. If anything I think his writing since Fargo Rock City is worse in this regard -- almost as if he was hoping that his book would somehow turn a tide. Then both the Ramones and Ratt deaths happen and he flips out that writers would want to talk about one more than the other, and spends his time complaining about that.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:23 (twenty years ago) link

"shake your love" was not go nowhere!

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:25 (twenty years ago) link

Chuck E needs to come in and settle this T-DG thing once and for all

M Matos (M Matos), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:29 (twenty years ago) link

I'm pretty sure he's a Tiffany guy

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:30 (twenty years ago) link

being 'contrarian' and all

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:31 (twenty years ago) link

he's a stacy q guy.

scott seward, Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:31 (twenty years ago) link

Nu Shooz.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:32 (twenty years ago) link

Liking Debbie more than Tiffany is like liking Michelle Branch more than Avril.

Nicole (Nicole), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:33 (twenty years ago) link

but that's just crazy-talk!

(isn't shake your love just the chorus over and over and over or am i missing something? i mean granted i love the double-entendre but it only takes you so far. foolish beat was a bit better i recall)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:35 (twenty years ago) link

"shake your love" has a breakitdown-builditbackup big beat would give it's left nut for

James Blount (James Blount), Tuesday, 8 July 2003 23:38 (twenty years ago) link


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