letz talk abt gucci mane

like i understand that everything about 'hipsters' is some kind of dick-measuring game to you, but im actually trying to focus on an article's relationship to the music in question, not further my 'personal internet brand' --

like seriously, if only YOU wrote for some popular music website that perpetuated an idea of listening to people like R. Kelly and Lil Wayne and Dipset because they're "so crazy" before "they make good music."

I feel like only then you could truly understand.

― jeezy and the ayy-dog (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:17 PM (12 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

what does the venue i write for have to do with anything? here's a secret :writing for pitchfork does not make me any better able to read the minds of its writers -- if they wrote something like this i would be equally mystified

you keep making this about me instead of answering the simple question: what does the writer mean when he makes those statements about listening to gucci mane 'ironically' -- please deconstruct

i know you think im playing faux-naif here but if you could just go along with that for a minute & explain how what hes saying is in any way 'defensible' for a journalist, interviewing an artist, in a national magazine, whoever your perceived impression of its audience is, id really appreciate it

i'm saying anyone who follows the way indie rock writers cover rap music and ostensibly how indie rock listeners consume rap music (which I assume you are up on because you were all psyched on cracking the "coke-rap Da Vinci Code" in that other thread) knows there's thus undertone of "I like this because lol so crazy" that has been around since lil' 'fork was dropping critical bombs about Kool Keith. If you can't see Gucci at the end of this rainbow (WAU HE MIGHT PULL UP ON A ZEBRA) then you're not paying attention.

whether it's right to do it, i assume the comment itself an ironic comment to the ephemeral way that hipsters consume rap music. And OH MY GOD, printed magazine proof of my long-standing theory that hipsters love Gucci Mane

which, before you cry again, never for a second meant ONLY hipsters like Gucci Mane

like it's an jokey statement that says "some of gucci's appeal has been in that weird, ironic way that some hipsters listen to rap"

the writer is on our side.

so ... i AM right to be up in arms about this, is what you are saying? that an ostensible 'journalist' writing for a publication, EVEN ONE TARGETING HIP WHITE PPL, should probably NOT be falling into this offensive line of thinking, right?

i mean, i still question the notion that any respectable journalist should drop such culturally loaded "wink-wink!" subliminal coded messages to his audience & still be taken seriously. the lack of deconstruction in this case is embarrassing for spin, in my opinion

i dont see how hes on 'our side' -- it seems more like reinforcing that this is a legitimate way of consuming music, to me

he's saying it happens, not that it's right

i mean, why give people with shitty approaches to music this much significance to a story on someone they are clearly not all that concerned with, who they think is just some wacky eccentric?

i dont really see the IRONIC APPRECIATOR's relevance to this story, even writing for this magazine's fanbase, unless you are specifically going to critique that approach instead of acknowledging it passively

that much significance = half a sentence?

Even as Miley Cyrus calls him her favorite rapper

wait did this actually happen?

he's using them as an example of how gucci has gone from 'very hyped' to 'not-so-hyped' -- i dont think that the bulk of the hype for gucci's music ever came from this group of people or ever will -- hes writing from a blinkered perspective that isnt taking a big-picture look at things. who he goes to the bar with is not the rest of the country

it's a dumb sentence & the reasons hipsters like things isn't really noteworthy, but it is just half a sentence

smh

hey i didnt ask to have a big discussion about it-- i thought we were all just pointing out dumb sentences

what he said about hipsters wasn't as offensive as what he said about lil wayne

what he said about lil wayne is at least arguable!

j0rdan I wondered abt the miley thing too...apparently she did say that: http://rapradar.com/2010/06/23/miley-cyrus-digs-gucci-mane-oj-da-juiceman/

her pull quote there is pretty lol/smh

i mean, for the record

hey i didnt ask to have a big discussion about it

please deconstruct

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:19 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

Foots says:
Wednesday, June 23 2010 at 9:38 AM EST
“In about three years, holla at me Miley Cyrus”

i dont think that the bulk of the hype for gucci's music ever came from this group of people or ever will

i agree with you 100% on this. But a chunk of it that Spin readers care about HAS come from this group of people, which is why it's OK to mention it imho. Not a lot of Arcade Fire fans give a flying dick about what Miley Cyrus says, b ut they do care which rappers it's OK to ironically like this month

F
Y
I

i think the lesson here is that people shouldn't read rap radar

please deconstruct

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:19 PM (15 minutes ago) Bookmark

― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:36 PM (20 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

...which was in response to whiney calling me out for suggesting that sentence was 'dumb' -- he could have just nodded in agreement?

i'm more interested in 'deconstructing' the veracity of this statement

Gangsta rap is a genre built on pedigree, perceived or otherwise -- the tougher the individual and the tougher the background, the better for business. But despite all of the tough talk, no other major rapper of the modern era has been widely believed to have actually killed a man. And while Gucci doesn't say it himself, it's hard not to think that it's precisely because of the attempted murder case, as well as the assault charge, the parade of prison stints, and the tales of violence at video shoots and in random run-ins in the Atlanta streets, that Gucci is able to make disarmingly playful records like "Lemonade," "Wasted" and "Pills." A different rapper might have to spend all of those records rapping with something to prove. But for Gucci, that's simply, or perhaps not so simply, not the case.

b ut they do care which rappers it's OK to ironically like this month

F
Y
I

― jeezy and the ayy-dog (Whiney G. Weingarten), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:36 PM (30 seconds ago) Bookmark

they can 'care' about this but i think that its harmful/stupid for any respectable journalist to reinforce this kind of thinking. its simply not journalistic

also, what is this in reference to

and the tales of violence at video shoots and in random run-ins in the Atlanta streets

deej i think we all know your stance

Gangsta rap is a genre built on pedigree, perceived or otherwise -- the tougher the individual and the tougher the background, the better for business. But despite all of the tough talk, no other major rapper of the modern era has been widely believed to have actually killed a man. And while Gucci doesn't say it himself, it's hard not to think that it's precisely because of the attempted murder case, as well as the assault charge, the parade of prison stints, and the tales of violence at video shoots and in random run-ins in the Atlanta streets, that Gucci is able to make disarmingly playful records like "Lemonade," "Wasted" and "Pills." A different rapper might have to spend all of those records rapping with something to prove. But for Gucci, that's simply, or perhaps not so simply, not the case.

― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:37 PM (28 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think that the music itself actually contains this contradiction (the violence / playfulness thing) and that the 'actual' 'murder' is only related the way his entire life story/background is ... it seems like a lot of times writers put a lot of emphasis on that sort of 'pedigree' as if they're partly suspicious of the fanbase/audience for not judging the 'more important' subject matter of the primarily but imo they tend to overrate the audience's focus on i.e. snoop's murder charge ... isnt it possible that snoop just made some really good music? well now that seems obvious ....

this is part of why diplo's suggestion that gucci is just a harmless friendly guy is so not-getting-it -- his 'playfulness' requires the underpinnings of violence to be effective, its like a precise tension that makes that sort of thing work -- reducing gucci to a gangster rap teddy bear misses the point entirely

I think the sentence is fine. i think the fact that indie rockers continue to have a culturally retarded attituded towards rap is disgusting (and I believe the author does too).

I remember when "Hyphy" came out there was some fuckface in wbug who wrote "MAKE A BABYMAMA SLAP HER BABYDADDY" on the back of a sleeveless denim jacket in white out.

wburg, mean "williamsburg"

"as if they're partly suspicious of the fanbase/audience for not judging the 'more important' subject matter of the MUSIC primarily..."

correction on my post

by 'underpinnings of violence' i mean aesthetically -- ugh i should rewrite that whole post

i think that the music itself actually contains this contradiction (the violence / playfulness thing) and that the 'actual' 'murder' is only related the way his entire life story/background is ... it seems like a lot of times writers put a lot of emphasis on that sort of 'pedigree' as if they're partly suspicious of the fanbase/audience for not judging the 'more important' matter of the music 'itself' -- but imo they tend to overrate the audience's focus on i.e. snoop's murder charge ... isnt it possible that snoop just made some really good music that people liked? well now that seems obvious, but at the time, they were being fooled by his violent pedigree!! he was 'keeping it real' which is what that audience 'wants' ....

this is part of why diplo's suggestion that gucci is just a harmless friendly guy is so not-getting-it -- his 'playfulness' requires the aesthetic underpinnings of violence to be effective, its like a precise tension that makes that sort of thing work -- reducing gucci to a gangster rap teddy bear misses the point entirely

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:41 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^^corrected version

i do like that you are making strides to explain what the words you use actually mean

^^^'ironic'

Gangsta rap is a genre built on pedigree, perceived or otherwise -- the tougher the individual and the tougher the background, the better for business. But despite all of the tough talk, no other major rapper of the modern era has been widely believed to have actually killed a man. And while Gucci doesn't say it himself, it's hard not to think that it's precisely because of the attempted murder case, as well as the assault charge, the parade of prison stints, and the tales of violence at video shoots and in random run-ins in the Atlanta streets, that Gucci is able to make disarmingly playful records like "Lemonade," "Wasted" and "Pills." A different rapper might have to spend all of those records rapping with something to prove. But for Gucci, that's simply, or perhaps not so simply, not the case.

― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:37 PM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

anyway this doesn't really seem true to me -- i think gucci can make "disarmingly playful records" because he's able to stay 'street' in his raps, not because people go "oh well this dude is 'real' because he killed a man. this 'playful' record isn't soft" -- like, "lemonade" has kids singing a chorus, but okay, so does "i'm a thug" & that song is about, you know, being a thug -- the hook is certainly disarming, but it has nothing to do with trick's irl 'realness' -- & "wasted" and "pillz" are pretty street records anyway

i think its important j0rdan that u note that he is able to pull off a more playful persona than most rappers are, but i really do think its about aesthetic balances more than backstory ...

i mean aside from the fact that oj isn't really all that talented, part of the reason that he's less successful than gucci is because he seems like an actual clown -- the fact that he's actually been shot irl does nothing to really help his rep

the whole "his audience likes him because he KEEPS IT REAL/ONCE KILLED SOMEONE" is a long-held cliche that imo deserves a lot more analysis

although there is obv an element of it that is true ... outlaw performers have always had a love-hate relationship w/ american society

but i really do think its about aesthetic balances more than backstory ...

― j. sargent & lil k3v (deej), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:47 PM (58 seconds ago) Bookmark

well i think i said this in my post

i still think oj has gotten an unfair shake bcuz of his proximity to gucci & the need for ppl defending gucci to have a stick to beat 'actually-ignorant' rap with

well i think i said this in my post

― truly blunted rhyme fiend (J0rdan S.), Sunday, October 17, 2010 6:49 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i think i said that in my post before your post!!

i was just reiterating bro

i do wonder if 'realness' is becoming less important now that there is a smaller pool of rappers -- like were people just willing to overlook the ross/PO fiasco solely because he's one of the only large scale rappers putting out massive street bangers