rolling ringtone thread 2008

right now a small group of people end up being hugely influential on large groups of people and how they think about music

Are you talking about the fashionistas here? Because media influence on anyone these days is kind of LOL.

writers, historians and critics still serve as gatekeepers for how ppl think about music

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAy8d0oyElg

http://friendsofdoom.com/gz/img/post/news/2007-04-17-keymaster.jpg

writers, historians and critics still serve as gatekeepers for how ppl think about music

as this will always be true you either gotta put up or shut up to change the discourse don'tcha

which is why im putting up in this thread?

that's also kinda bullshit right?

i mean radio programmers, club djs, ppl who pick music for soundtracks, ppl who pick music for ads, ppl who pick music for sports arenas - these are MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger gatekeepers right?

j0rdan yr argument is circular. hipsters are kids who like cool kids. cool kids getting hyped out the ass is ok because hipsters like them. who are hipsters? people who like cool kids

nah you're over simplifying me. for one im using (well we all are) the term hipsters as a huge strawman-- obv i dont mean every hipster walking the face of every us metropolis, just that the cool kids fan base is made up largely of "hipsters" (fashonistas, w/e), however many "hipsters" that is. for one, ya i think it's ok for cool kids to get hyped out the ass cuz i happen to like them a lot, but all im saying is that it makes sense for hipster/indie rock publications to either a. cover rap groups that their readership digs or b. cover rap groups that they think their readership will dig. would i prefer to see boosie or rich boy get an urb cover? yeah, but i could say the same thing about rolling stone, blender, xxl, vibe, the source, gq, spin etc etc etc

try to bring down the tribal aspect of this a minute and look at media coverage as not being 'for' hipsters. right now a small group of people end up being hugely influential on large groups of people and how they think about music. why is this ok/what does it mean/how will it affect how we talk about culture and what values is it that this small group of ppl are perpetuating, and not just values in an ideological sense but in an aesthetic one as well

im going to run with this and pretend as if whiney and john and blount aren't right about this "small group of people" having no influence (i really have no idea if they are right or not). for one i think it would be great for a small group of people (i assume you mean urb type mag editors) to be able to gatekeep music, but of course those people are going to make some missteps. i have a much bigger problem w/ xxl and vibe fucking up their covers wrt the "right" rappers then urb and the fader. i just think you're overstating the amount of influence a magazine like urb has, and not in the whiney g lol corporation/lol ppl don't listen to media way, but on the overall discourse of rap music

lol I just noticed capo and camron in that high school musical pic

fab's a milli
http://www.zshare.net/audio/1347064340e31214/

b/w the punch lines on this and his verse on "nuthin on me" he's approaching an o_O level semi-comeback here

"i only smoke dutches/i ont feel ees muhfuckas"
"ill serve your fruity ass like wet willies muhfucka"

etc etc

that sucks

j0rdan who says boosie wants that type of coverage. it aint an interesting interview if the interviewer aint an interesting conversation

media influence aint LOL

unless its a good writer

j0rdan who says boosie wants that type of coverage

this is basically what i've been saying-- not that cool kids are more worthy than boosie wrt an urb cover or that cool kids cover is more "ok" than boosie, just that i think deej is glossing over artist intent when he bemoans the fact that only cocaine blunts is rating a big tuck song over a cool kids one

among other things obviously

hustles is hustles, though everybody not together and their own lines of the mainstream underground

it was obv the baltimore d-bag scene couldn't hold a weight from what i read-- who knows though,. sure there's top shelf there too.

only cocaine blunts is rating a big tuck song over a cool kids one

bad example-- what i mean i should've said is that deej is glossing over artist intent when he bemoans the fact that urb is rating cool kids but ignoring big tuck

the cool kids aint been freestylin off top shine like tuck ever, have they?? whats the comparison

both recently but out songs w/ the same sample

dan deacon seems like he would totally work on e, otoh when i saw him two weeks ago he was wearing a jar jar binks shirt

sorry to intrude. odds on this 'hipster-rap' biz managing any kind of significant presence in englishesland, anyone? i am vaguely curious

i mean radio programmers, club djs, ppl who pick music for soundtracks, ppl who pick music for ads, ppl who pick music for sports arenas - these are MUCH MUCH MUCH bigger gatekeepers right?

-- balls, Wednesday, June 11, 2008 10:13 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

here we're talking about short vs. long term cultural capital

like 'cool i get on a soundtrack - maybe i can add an addition to my house once the record companies take their massive percentage' vs. 'my music is so timeless thanks to the continued work of the critical community that one day i'll be able to release an album sold over the internet straight to the consumer and make insane bank on it.'

that 2nd part refers to an album that we might discuss on an I Love In Rainbows board

also the thing about this:
i mean radio programmers, club djs

is that there's a lot more democratic process happening here. radio programmers have to sell advertising, club djs need to keep people buying alcohol. the people are gonna be driving this process to a great degree

all im saying is that it makes sense for hipster/indie rock publications to either a. cover rap groups that their readership digs or b. cover rap groups that they think their readership will dig.

you're not getting what im saying but the key sentence is here. Who is their readership, and why is what a hipster publication likes what a hipster publication likes? You're acting like its some sort of democratic forum when really its just a small group of people - smaller than the number of people who read pitchfork, smaller than the number of self-identified 'hipsters' - who happen to pay attention to a particular aesthetic niche, which then snowballs quickly because this group has access to the media game.

and i said this already, im not talking about Urb like its the start of this shit, right now Urb is just an echo chamber for shit a month or two later, like most hipster print mags its wayy behind the times and serves only to reinforce the boundaries of where a particular aesthetic begins and ends

the point isnt about whether or not boosie should be on the cover, the point is that i happen to think that the aesthetic choices that dominate current 'hipster music' circles right now are kinda bullshit and the sooner folks acknowledge this the less ill have to put up with the cool kids

its not like we havent witnessed this shit happen so i dont get whats so hard about it to understand. why diplo? right place right time, played the media game, had ACCESS to the media game. does anyone here really think that hipsters in socal couldnt wait to hear about this guy who plays mashups at parties in philly?? well, once they heard about it in urb they did!

or stylus lol preemptive zing

odds on this 'hipster-rap' biz managing any kind of significant presence in englishesland, anyone?

given the amount of PR email bombardment i've had re: the cool kids, sadly high. i've never heard their stuff though.

on the one hand i totally feel what deej is saying, it's so frustrating to see the 'hipster kids' who dominate our little media & music industry bubbles pick up on this sort of music. the reason the music itself seems lame is because it kind of tries a little too hard to be 'different', and that those differences are manifest in distancing itself from the rest of the genre. and warning bells really start to ring when i see a hip-hop act whose audience seems to be exclusively indie kids who don't care about hip-hop generally. it's like, they only like hip-hop when it's sufficiently not-hip-hop.

(cool kids, diplo, MIA et al : hip-hop :: justice, simian mobile disco et al : dance)

on the other hand i think it might just be better if we acknowledged that just cuz these people dominate our bubble of music discussion etc doesn't mean they dominate, um, the wider culture...we could all just try ignoring that pfork exists apart from tom ewing's columns cuz it's a) totally lame b) totally indie so what do you expect c) not that important. it helps that the site always crashes my computer.

though i also see deej's point re long-term cultural capital - cometimes you can just FEEL stuff being canonised, placed on this pedestal for the next gen to unwittingly swallow up, and so much of it is so bad

(nb i LOVE 'pro nails' and kid sister generally)

i hesitate to back up the dance parallels primarily bcuz here in the states there isnt a mainstream club sound that has the kind of pervasive presence that hip-hop does so its not like kids who get really into smd are passing up on shit that is right in their backyard already

it's "hip-hop geared specifically to indie kids" and "dance geared specifically to indie kids" - it follows really obviously that hipsters/indie kids will be into that shit more than people like us, who are more into hip-hop and dance than indie. real qn is - why are we attributing so much tastemaking power to the indie kids? (or if we're right to do so, why do they have so much tastemaking power? why don't we dismiss it as another example of people w/lame taste jumping on music which is geared towards their lame taste, and get on with liking what we like?)

fab's a milli
http://www.zshare.net/audio/1347064340e31214/

b/w the punch lines on this and his verse on "nuthin on me" he's approaching an o_O level semi-comeback here

"i only smoke dutches/i ont feel ees muhfuckas"
"ill serve your fruity ass like wet willies muhfucka"

etc etc

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, 12 June 2008 07:27 (5 hours ago) Link

kinda gets my goat when people are suddenly on Fab's dick because of the Carter III feature and saying it's his best verse ever or best in years -- his Gangsta Grillz a few months ago was really good!

dg yola wth a live band

http://thefader.com/articles/2008/6/11/freeload-dg-yola-the-xo-band-live

dude u a lil jimmy olsen intern at fader or some ish if i wanted to read the fader blog i would str8 up read the fader blog

it's "hip-hop geared specifically to indie kids" and "dance geared specifically to indie kids" - it follows really obviously that hipsters/indie kids will be into that shit more than people like us, who are more into hip-hop and dance than indie. real qn is - why are we attributing so much tastemaking power to the indie kids? (or if we're right to do so, why do they have so much tastemaking power? why don't we dismiss it as another example of people w/lame taste jumping on music which is geared towards their lame taste, and get on with liking what we like?)

-- lex pretend, Thursday, 12 June 2008 13:05 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

Isn't the only rap you listen to Saul Williams and Princess Superstar?

man get off my dick with your tired old man bitter rap hardbody fake steez you're posting on the internet

ive mentioned yola before, dude is dope, ths is the rap thread...

^love this dude

i met yola in 2005 got a copy of his 1st mixtape on cd-r i live 4 blocks from apache cafe and i still dont give a fuck about fader videos of dude rapping over a live band esp when you post like 40 fader links a week in this bitch

lol ok dude

that post was like timbaland street shit...just so fucking street!!!!!1

Isn't the only rap you listen to Saul Williams and Princess Superstar?

am i supposed to be annoyed at this? pretty sure dudes know my actual tastes all too well

kinda gets my goat when people are suddenly on Fab's dick because of the Carter III feature and saying it's his best verse ever or best in years -- his Gangsta Grillz a few months ago was really good!

-- some dude, Thursday, June 12, 2008 7:51 AM (3 hours ago) Bookmark Link

i mean imo it his best verse in a long while but im not suddenly on his dick or anything-- imo even his non-loverman raps had fallen off (i will admit to not listening to much of that gangster grillz- kinda hard to get through those sometimes) but im pretty sure ive expressed my luv for fab at various points in this thread/throughout this board etc

lex to answer yr question seriously i dont think its helpful to set it up as some tribal us-vs.-hipsters kind of shit but to look at it as a strain of aesthetic options and interrogate why certain options get more critical 'play' than others, turning into 'oooh i hate those indie kids!' just kind of ends up being unnecessarily confrontational and also there is a big risk for being guilty of lacking self awareness

i mean imo it his best verse in a long while but im not suddenly on his dick or anything-- imo even his non-loverman raps had fallen off (i will admit to not listening to much of that gangster grillz- kinda hard to get through those sometimes) but im pretty sure ive expressed my luv for fab at various points in this thread/throughout this board etc

-- J0rdan S., Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:21 PM (1 minute ago) Bookmark Link

his loverman raps definitely fell off (none of the soft batch stuff on From Nothin' To Somethin' can touch "Can't Let You Go" or "Into You") but all the Street Fi-di-di-di-dam shit has been pretty consistent I think. Fab really just needs to get on a run of remixes, break into the Khaled circuit or some shit.

i mean the question isnt why should we avoid aesthetics 'indie kids' like, its what aesthetic strains are being ignored and why and what are the motives and who benefits from this situation xp

its not like we havent witnessed this shit happen so i dont get whats so hard about it to understand. why diplo? right place right time, played the media game, had ACCESS to the media game. does anyone here really think that hipsters in socal couldnt wait to hear about this guy who plays mashups at parties in philly?? well, once they heard about it in urb they did!

i guess if youre ultimately asking me how hipster rappers get to know media types, i really dont know. is that a poisonous relationship? probably, but, like i said, i don't think that this "small" group of people have that much of an influence over rap discourse so i dont think its as drastic, esp wrt the canon, as you're making it out to be