Jean-Luc Godard: S and D

I think you're making it out to sound more like a conspiracy theory than it is. His point is that if you mention stuff like that you get labelled as an anti-semite. Which is basically what's happening on this thread.

snowy yr a fucking retard, i wasn't even joining in the chorus of antisemitism accusations (tho u have to be rather obtuse not to detect the vein of ~polite~ cultural/poetical antisemtism befitting a franco-swiss haut-bourgeous high modernist of his generation)....rather i was showing the inadequacy of his rhetorical methods in these kinda areas where, you know, actual reality has to be considered (see also the etymology of 'antisemitism')

His point is that if you mention stuff like that you get labelled as an anti-semite. Which is basically what's happening on this thread.

― Gukbe, Wednesday, 17 November 2010 20:09 (25 minutes ago)

just like someone would get called a racist if they enumerated the white women who have been raped by black drug addicts, even if their stats are 'true'

wrt jlg, it's not an ~accusatation~ like he's going to be prosecuted, it doesn't attenuate the greatness of his work imo but it is kinda dispiriting

ya exactly - and i'm kind of shocked aerosmith doesn't "get" this - tell me who brings up "the jews"' ties to "finance" who isn't peddling something

People who are saying that anytime you say that Jews wanted to make money you get called an anti-semite?

You saw the film, didn't you slocks? Did you find it anti-semitic? (not trolling or baiting, just curious)

http://www.misterteacher.com/alphabetgeometry/obtuse%20angle.gif

It might have been obtuse but was it anti-semitic?

no, i haven't seen his new one yet

the vein of ~polite~ cultural/poetical antisemtism befitting a franco-swiss haut-bourgeous high modernist of his generation

tell me who brings up "the jews"' ties to "finance" who isn't peddling something

― google street jew (s1ocki), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 8:48 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

isnt this kindof a "the jews killed jesus" argument?

we are not talking about a gibson- or richards-esque freakout revealing a white-hot core of hatred at the heart of a seemingly normal human being.
we are talking about a notoriously anti-hollywood dude, saying some shit in an interview about the jews who founded hollywood which, while maybe not a 100% accurate reflection of the historical truth, is also hardly an elders-of-zion-level crazy paranoid distortion of said truth.

awesome benchmark brah

I'm maybe even willing to defend his "ah but what does 'anti-semite' even mean???" dodge, because I think at a certain point one has a right to question what, exactly, his self-appointed prosecutors have put him on trial for, in whose name, and what they're trying to prove by it.

he's on trial now? jesus, though, seriously, what the fuck? 'in who's name' was gibson being called an anti-semite, huh? i guess he's 'on trial' for being an anti-semite and people are 'trying to prove' he is an ant-semite in the name of... decency? idk this feels pretty basic.

but I mean tbperfectlyh, I don't know what the hell kind of non-'anti-semitic' answer you can give to a question like "are the jews for diversity?" — "oh yeah, those dudes love diversity! it's cuz their rootless cosmopolitanism has deprived them of any authentic sense of cultural belonging, so now they find themselves drawn, like moths to a flame, by whatever's most appealing in all the other real cultures!" so I guess maybe I blame the interviewer.

not a great question but im pretty sure it's possible to answer it without being anti-semitic.

and the stuff about blacks seems like even more of a non-issue... or is anyone here going to seriously dispute either the existence or the wrongheadedness of the "hey, look, now y'all have the same opportunities to spend money on shit that we do! everything's groovy!" ideology?

― undervalued aerosmith memorabilia I have appraised (bernard snowy), Wednesday, November 17, 2010 6:50 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark

...

he "black guy in a watch" line that would be super-offensive if he wasn't OBVIOUSLY USING IT AS A RHETORICAL STAND-IN FOR OPPOSING VIEWS WITH WHICH HE IS ENGAGING IN DIALOGUE

ha, ha, 'engaging in dialogue', sure

this is like the business class edition of the ronaldinho bottle opener thread

if you don't see it, yr not gonna see it

there was a time when I would have seen it, now I don't, I guess this is just some personal baggage shit but it's hard not to want to proselytize until everyone is converted

t whiney I appreciate yr '...' — sometimes that really is the best response to the legacy of colonialism!

haha i thought i was arguing with the "original" aerosmith this whole time

I've kept thinking Shakey is Whiney recently too :/

~the perils of metasnark...~

(feel sorta bad now — killin' two reputations with one stone!! — even though I didn't 'do' anything and the confusion has now been resolved I still have this weird inexplicable guilty feeling — oh god maybe I really am him!)

pretty sure u are him

didn't check this thread till now; whoa; s1ocki otm

trolled so hard by godard

lamp i made a joke that is basically identical to your username on twitter a couple weeks ago!!

haha i posted a "magi.gif" on a bros facebook but i tht it wld be 'too conceptual' for an ilx dname

do i follow u? probably not..

will be in MTL next month btw

wow this is p off-topic hmmmm

the rothschilds are lizard ppl

lol

when and for how long? let's get a drink

doing a thing on the 9th iirc then staying for the weekend. will webmail when it gets closer

do it

ps are you an actual lamp

So this is going on:

Bernard-Henri Lévy
Part 1
Part 2

Also, a take by Hollywood Jew

http://www.newwavefilm.com/images/jean-luc-godard.jpg

I just finished the MacCabe book. It was decent, great in parts, but mostly unsatisfying. I would like to read a Godard autobiography!

Should I see La Chinoise?

― adamrl (nordicskilla), Monday, 9 January 2006 17:54 (4 years ago)

anyone else read this?

The way he's phrasing these things are pretty stupid and baiting, but again, I don't see any problem with asserting that early Hollywood Jewish moguls were interested in commerce (as opposed to art). fwiw I think the fact that they were Jewish has no real relation to any of the output other than the Hays code and the deliberate attempts to 'Christianize' their output to ward off the government and anti-semites who think they're indoctrinating the nation. I don't think the fact that they were Jewish informs their desire to make money. On the flip side, I don't think the fact that they were Jewish meant they were using their films to create an America they could fit into. I don't think that makes me anti-semitic though.

― Gukbe

sorry if this was covered already but "early Hollywood Jewish moguls were interested in commerce" is meaningless because EVERYBODY in hollywood is interested in commerce and it creates this notion that only jewish folks in hollywood are interested in money as opposed to all the other non-jewish people in hollywood (if they actually exist because as we know JEWS run hollywood!)

omar otm

I read the MacCabe book two or three summers ago. I found it fairly involving, but I don't remember a lot in the way of specifics--except maybe that MacCabe had a professional relationship with Godard (maybe they collaborated on a script? I don't remember). It's only been the past couple of years where I really started to like certain Godard films (and even loved the look of a something like Made in the U.S.A., which I otherwise found silly), so I'd probably get even more out of the book today.

Boy I hate being on the wrong side of an argument, especially one that I feel pretty ambivalent about in the first place.

I used "early Hollywood Jewish moguls" because that's what the interview was talking about. Godard was being questioned about the charges of anti-semitism and what he's said. Nobody's laid out the charge that of everyone in Hollywood, it was only the Jews that were interested in commerce. The discussion began by excluding everyone else.

As to the notion of saying anything at all about early Hollywood Jewish moguls, I quoted above from the Center for Jewish History. There was also a book published a few years ago about them. It's hardly anti-semitic or politically incorrect to discuss these men in these terms. They're often celebrated for their achievements by the Jewish community. As I've said before, I'm not convinced that the fact that they were Jewish had very much to do with their success, eye for crowd-pleasing stories, or business acumen, but they're not being singled out by an anti-semitic Other.

Obviously Godard's views on Jews is complex, even ghastly with its connotations. I'm just not entirely convinced that this particular interview is damning evidence of his anti-semitism as compared to what's come before.

xpost

i'm not looking to build a case here, all i know is that interview really skeeved me out

ftr (again) not really defending Godard here. genuinely was curious as to what it was that really got to people which turned into trolling accusations etc...

i think that was spelled out upthread -- multiple times

there's just this really curious thing that happens when a whole bunch of people in a business are trying to make as much money as possible, some of whom happen to be jewish, and the ones who get singled out as the ones trying to make the money are specifically the ones who are jewish.

i'm not sure that's what is happening here but obviously i've said that multiple times

Godard at 80:

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/2600

Will be showing the class four minutes of this this morning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4LWwhFJoUw

As I've mentioned before, it was two or three decades of general puzzlement (and annoyance) for me before I was able to get anything out of Godard. I now find things like the coffee-cup detour here very moving. "When the future is more present than the present..."

http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/mickey-mouse-birthday2.jpg

still haven't got round to reading 'godard at 70', mind

Tried to watch Histoire(s) du Cinema again last nite; gave me a headache. :/

but stevie, it brings to an end the identifiably european culture that began with dante!

is that a colin mccabe quote?

yes

it's kind of funnie because for eliot, on whom maccabe is supposed to be an authority, that homogenous, one european culture that began with dante was ended by the english civil war/british civil wars, or by the forces that caused it/them; anyway, that's what he's alluding to, i suppose

sensibility keeps on getting more dissociated every gd year

saw big col trying to int jlg onstage at the nft abt 10 years ago, prob the most excruiating encounter between admirer and object of devotion i've ever witnessed

godard seems to bring that out in people. the new yorker's richard brody interviewed him back then and apparently it was insanely awkward -- afterwards, they ended up in the same restaurant, but pointedly jlg and amm both ignored brodybro. who went on to write a very long biography of godard.

very long and very fawning, i should say: he got very upset when people used bits from it (you can guess to what prejudice they pertained) to attack godard