chicago juke: dj nate, dj rashad [R.I.P. 2014], leatherface aka kaptain cadillac, dj roc &c &c

yeah, though w/night slugs i'd probably say that their old booty bass and ghetto house influences are more important than any contemporary genre - and while as a label it can seem magpie-ish, i don't think any specific producer really is - and it's what links their seemingly disparate sounds that's more important. i know bok bok's tended to go with the "just call it HOUSE" line recently w/r/t there still not being a proper genre name for them (admittedly this makes a ton more sense re: his dj sets than his productions)

actually yeah the stuff the NS crew grew up on is a way better summation of what they're about than the stuff that's within their orbit now. grime, booty bass, ghettotech, r&b, 90s house.

Actually the Night Slugs stuff I actually like is the stuff that edges much closer to straight house. I don't think they need a genre name because it's not actually a genre, there's too much variance in the beats.

post-dubstep is another matter but isn't relevant here.

Uhhh, wrong Matt, juke-inspired post-dubstep is pretty much that whole scene's big new development of 2010.

(give or take james blake stannery)

This is by far the best example (though it's not like it's a field crowded with classics):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utvgs27fT4U

I was actually talking about the floatier end of post-dubstep - Subeena, James Blake, Mt Kimbie etc. But yeah point taken about Ramadanman, although I think of him as dubstep proper even when he isn't.

just a quick question: has there ever been a worse name for a dubstep artist than Ramadanman? is he the standard bearer?

He's increasingly recording as Pearson Sound now so maybe he agrees. Possibly overcompensating, seeing as Pearson Sound sounds like one of those places audiophiles go to buy very expensive hi-fi systems.

Apparently he's phasing out the name in favour of Pearson Sound. Good move. ha ha xpost.

I was actually talking about the floatier end of post-dubstep - Subeena, James Blake, Mt Kimbie etc. But yeah point taken about Ramadanman, although I think of him as dubstep proper even when he isn't.

I think that the notion of IDM tendencies and dancefloor tendencies being obviously separate from one another is dead and buried at this point if it ever really was true - and it's relevant that ultimately the single most important IDM in terms of longterm impact is probably early Black Dog, which was still dancefloor friendly, albeit fitfully so . The spectre of IDM is much more diffuse nowadays, and rarely inhabits anything fully, more typically relationally.

yeah ramadanman reaaaaaally doesn't like that name (and nor should he)

ha xps

I think what deej was going for there was 'lol dubstep is just IDM with a different name you stupid Brits with your several genres' but I for one didn't greatly care to engage with that

ramadanman prob thought he was being hilarious when he came up with his name.

not just that i knew it, its just funny that its treated like a huge discovery & i dont really see any exciting new music being created from this discovery. im glad that yall are helping it to sell other places

its not about new exciting music being 'created' from this 'discovery' (though if anything like that does happen its prob going to take a while before the uk regurgitation of juke becomes its own thing rather than a weird knockoff/tribute version of it), its just about these guys getting a bit more attention, maybe a bit more cash, and maybe some more bookings around the world. i mean, what do people want labels to do? only sign up artists from a scene that has only just come into existence and reject it if its been going more than a few days? if i had heard this 3-4 years ago i still would have been interested in it. it just so happens that even if it is belated, now theres a bit more attention being given to this stuff (for better worse, but hopefully better) than there was previously, where it wasnt even particularly well known outside chicago, as far as i know. anyway, much rather someone like mike paradinas/planet mu getting behind this than someone like diplo (who has created some real bangers yes, but still deserves some suspicion). dont see how its any diff from when house/techno was newish and you had comps 'introducing' those sounds. in a way its kinda cool that for all the 'nothing stays local' anymore fearmongering about the net, this stufff has only just started getting an international foothold.

anyone know if mike p was into juke pre-footcrab (which is quite tepid btw and suffers from those synths being too nice and tasteful - not even halfway as invigorating drumwise compared to juke proper)? did he know about it already or did that just send him hurtling towards it?

its just funny that its treated like a huge discovery

lord forgive us for not being up on all regional genres from the day they were created

I think what deej was going for there was 'lol dubstep is just IDM with a different name you stupid Brits with your several genres' but I for one didn't greatly care to engage with that

yeah the word "dubstep" gets thrown around as a strawman so much (cf whiney's "i don't believe anyone really listens to dubstep" steez - pretty much why i can't take him seriously as a critic). irony is that i never bloody liked it much in the first place - i'm just not so allergic to it that i have to tar either the stuff that's come after it or its pop moves like "katy on a mission" with some Serious-Faced Strawman brush.

True, there are other reasons to tar "Katy On A Mission" </kneejerk tim>

I thought "Watch My Feet" was the moment people discovered juke anyways.

most ppl viewed watch my feet as a novelty record afaik

i thought juke was a regional hip-hop subgenre when "watch my feet" came out (à la hyphy or jerk or whatever) - even keke palmer had a footworking song on her album! i didn't realise until last year that it was more of a club genre that isn't particularly mc-based.

btw footcrab and dumbshit become 10 times more impressive if you play them pitched up.

anyone know if mike p was into juke pre-footcrab

pretty certain he was yeah - I don't think he discovered it for himself in any especially privileged way (ie fanboy on the internet) but I seem to recall reading that he's been bugging out on footwork for the best part of a couple of years maybe. I mean if you try and think how long it actually takes to put something like the Nate album together, from first point of contact (NB one of Mike's colleagues described Nate as "a nightmare" to work with lol), I'd assume it was in the works since before the start of this year... could be wrong tho

Yeah here we go http://blog.bleep.com/2010/08/12/mike-paradinas-introduces-juke-house/

that mix thats linked on that page is seriously good. one of the best ive heard actually.

in the comments someone says theres some european juke djs/producers called nightmare juke squad. sounds like horrorcore. though id rather hear some european guys take juke into more of a gabba type direction than dubstep producers remoulding it into the (somewhat boring) dubstep aesthetic.

joy orbison is a much more annoying name than ramadanman imo

they should both have 'lol!' at the end of their names

i thought juke was a regional hip-hop subgenre when "watch my feet" came out (à la hyphy or jerk or whatever) - even keke palmer had a footworking song on her album! i didn't realise until last year that it was more of a club genre that isn't particularly mc-based.

― lex lex lex lex lex on the track BOW (lex pretend), Monday, December 13, 2010 5:16 AM (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

juke isnt really a club genre as much as it is a genre for kids under 21 who cant get into club, fyi

& yes i was just doing the lol dubstep = idm thing

also whiney's wrong that 'no one listens to dubstep,' of course, but thats exactly the problem

this tarring of all the different strands of dubstep with the same boring brush is a bigger problem

shame its only dubstep guys that seem to have picked up on this - would much rather hear grime producers respond to juke.

Real talk.

dubstep isn't IDM, it's trip hop for the 10s

lol i thought that was disco edits

another uk version of juke (and it's 160 bpm...those ramadanman tracks talked about up thread slow it down to 130ish): http://oomk.tumblr.com/post/2190370393/zomby-digital-rain-we-want-moah

i'm totally unsurprised that dubstep producers would gravitate towards this stuff. beat-wise, there are more similarities than differences...the syncopation/sense of clave in the drums, high bpm with half-time backbeats, etc.

close, deej. disco edits are the big beat of the 10s.

dubstep isn't IDM, it's trip hop for the 10s

maybe, but trip hop for the 10s >>>> trip hop for the 90s

trip-hop was awesome and "trip-hop for the 10s" is nothing but a positive

yes and no

prefer trip hop from the 90s -- at least tried to sound vaguely sexxy

exception: that jamie woon track (original version) is still my shit

of interest to people into that jamie woon track: creep ft. romy madley croft (from the xx) - days

sexiest dubstep track was flylo + thom yorke

the thing abt the jamie woon track of course is that it doesnt sound like dubstep at all

nor does james blake, mt kimbie, etc etc

dubsteps a lot of different things. some of it's the trip hop of the 10s, some of it is the drum n bass, some of it the electro and some of it the detroit techno.

^

(that jamie woon track is basically 'burial doing pop/house' to me)

"dubstep" as a single central thing pretty much doesn't exist as it did 4-5 years ago, and there are a bunch of rather interesting reasons for that - but anyway, saying "[x] sounds like dubstep" in 2010 doesn't really tell me much about what that thing sounds like.

indeed non-londoners cottoning on to dubstep in 2010 could be compared to non-chicagoans cottoning on to juke in 2010

dubstep iirc basically describes any awkward stilted song w jabbing bass frequencies that stoners listen to. the clumsier the rhythm the more 'dubstep influence'

can we consider my trolling here 'argument trolling' & not 'personal beef' trolling? just fyi

disprove me of my stereotypes

deej i'm guessing you don't like the whole flylo/brainfeeder beat scene either?

i am familiar with dubstep stoner listener stereotypes, we've had them here for years. they're lame. tarring every kind of music that's vaguely linked to the genre with that brush is just inaccurate though.