chicago juke: dj nate, dj rashad [R.I.P. 2014], leatherface aka kaptain cadillac, dj roc &c &c

by "clumsy" i don't know if you mean the unquantized thing or the big-beat heaviness of some dubstep shit (which i hate).

but 'cmyk' is pretty straightforward rhythmically and not overly dude-ish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQoQirZwxE4

and i could see this working on a dancefloor here, maybe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0phGzrcTEE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDuznqhS6tQ

i think you can call a (relatively) old mala track and/or one of the first tracks pinch every produced "dubstep-qua-dubstep".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VrEkkI-y0w

^^ feminine pressure

pretty sure that 2562 track will read as very 'clumsy' to deej

dubstep from a few years back -

geiom ft. marita - reminissin'
pangaea - router
mr lager ft. alys be - tell me
mala - alicia
benga - e trips
benga & coki - night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBp0EyMhCwE

wait but this is a FOOTWORK thread

i am throwing out dubstep tracks that sound not rhythmically masculine, and if we're reading "masculine" as "not deep house" then at least no more masculine than footwork!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRnYY-sn1Rw

that's not a typo

rhythmically complex but NOT rhythmically masculine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3epmUGyBUf8

okay that's a bit masculine

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nK-sN_DDfk

ok pretty much disqualifies itself

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEjVC-zEbeM

pretty good except for the 4/4 part

posting in former juke-turned-dubstep thread that it seems sort of backwards to be making a point of forcing arguably progressive/forward-thinking/whachawannacallit music into a masculine/feminine duality

not to speak for deej, but i think he might be asking for dubstep could conceivably work in a u.s. club, i.e. not too abstract, aggressive, or strictly-for-the-heads nerdy?

why?

making a point of forcing arguably progressive/forward-thinking/whachawannacallit music into a masculine/feminine duality

I can see the issue with dualities but don't see why this would be more true of arguably progressive/forward-thinking/whachawannacallit music than anything else, can you elaborate please marc.

i think he might be asking for dubstep could conceivably work in a u.s. club, i.e. not too abstract, aggressive, or strictly-for-the-heads nerdy?

ok, didn't get that too clearly

I can see the issue with dualities but don't see why this would be more true of arguably progressive/forward-thinking/whachawannacallit music than anything else

i recognize it's probably just my opinion but using traditional heteronormative classifications for a lot of things comes off as antiquated to me - wherein applying these to anything progressive (can i take this wording back yet?) and whatnot seems especially at odds. though i realize there's already a long history of referring to characteristics like abstractedness as masculine. carry on.

back to clubbiness - it's frustrating how much crossover potential implied as a form of validity keeps coming up in this thread, but anyway i don't see why dubstep couldn't work in a club - but i'm under the impression most anything will work in a club. make it loud and throw some lights on and provide alcohol and aside from the wanting to hear something familiar, club-goers on the whole don't care do they?

the only time i've heard dubstep in the us to a non-head audience was kingdom, jubilee, egyptrixx, cubic zirconia, and some other dude downstairs at webster hall over the summer. it wasn't an "in the know" audience at all - hang-arounds from the hardcore band reunion show beforehand, local friends supporting, and curious normal-clubgoers walking in from the other room. it wasn't all dubstep but of course some tracks got in alongside all of the otherness that also isn't in much of a pop-friendly format. everyone had a great time for all of the lights/alcohol/don't care reasons above.

...and the fog machine (i hate fog machines)

(and also that was just the downstairs room and not megaclub-y at all)

quam just linked to this "prog juke" track by dj tmo

is this heading anywhere towards the wanting it to sound more like gabba someone mentioned?

Marc the issue I have is that it sounds like you're equating abstraction with progression (your desire to withdraw that term is noted though) which strikes me as more loaded than talking about stuff in terms of masculinity or femininity. But I'd disagree with your general point anyway not just because i'm loathe to use terms like "progressive": if we're talking about music doing something new, interesting, noteworthy etc there's no reason that this can't be done in the context of sonics that tend to code "masculine" (say, assaultive grooves) or "feminine" (say, singalong choruses).

As a general rule it's not any particular description of music that is outmoded, it's the chains of equivalence between those descriptions.

it sounds like you're equating abstraction with progression

yeah not all, was just up on the specific use of m/f but doubt that'll get anywhere in here.

okay tim if that's right then how do you work around "but that's what girls like" type of arguments

That's a chain of equivalence right there (albeit one that is also a truism): "feminine sonics" => "girls like this".

Arguably if we're talking "heteronormative" wouldn't it be boys who would like music that sounds female?

Anyway whether saying "but that's what girls like" is a bad thing or not depends on the context I would have thought? I don't even know the implication of its usage in isolation.

Maybe a different example would be illuminating:

If you describe something as "gay music", it might be:

1) music made by gay people
2) music that sounds like gay people
3) music that is liked by gay people

Now all three might apply, but alternatively only one or two of these things might be true, e.g Antony and the Johnsons is gay performer, who also sounds gay, but his fanbase probably isn't especially gay.

Whereas Kylie is someone who has a massive gay fanbase but is not a gay male obviously: to the extent that her music "sounds gay", is it because the music directly expresses qualities we associate with gayness, or is it that her music sounds like stuff we associate with gay fanbases? Probably a bit of both.

It's easy and (for the sake of convenience) not obviously wrongheaded to simply collapse these distinctions, but I hope my general point, being that such categories aren't exactly monolithic, is clear.

regardless of whether this choppy bass futurism is ripe/appropriate for being assigned a gender, i think e.g. rustie & deej have different ideas about what it shld be aiming for, & therefore i'm just guessing, but maybe deej isn't going to come round to this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlUY9BNl7lY

Re: dubstep being unsexy triphop.

http://www.factmag.com/2010/12/09/stream-juke-lynchpin-dj-rashads-new-album-just-a-taste/

In the spirit of the thread, new Rashad album up for streaming.

i was kinda hoping to be able to read "deej reacts to dubstep" over my lunch break. maybe that should be a separate thread?

lol no i like it in this one

i didnt get a chance to listen last nite

i really want to know what you think of martyn, 2562, shed and other detroit techno dubsteppers

prolly not much but still, bid for blab and all that.

come on deej

listen to some dubstep

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/RG0AremvLck?fs=1&;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RG0AremvLck?fs=1&;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

:(

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG0AremvLck

:)

I've not been on the boards long enough to know what a deej is or why we want to feed him dubstep in a juke thread but I'm guessing he's American and loves hip-hop dispite its many cliche's in 2010 and we wanna win him over with some killer UK material! I'm all up for that kind of fun and games. Have some Guido...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWcdwq2URSU

i love 'wut' so much and feel bad for the snarky 'uk diplo' post. it's a valid comparison in relation to the b-more thing but until bok bok appears in a cunty blackberry ad i'll withhold judgement.

back on topic: i tried to listen to the dj nate album on the bus and it made me feel a bit ill. the rhythms didn't add up! #gettingold

gonna get into this stuff this weekend

I would just like to point out that that DJ Rashad album I posted upthread is absolutely A++ high quality.

"the rhythms didn't add up"

i feel like this sometimes. its also weird hearing these hard stuttering beats with a romantic vocal sample on top of it. the moods dont fit.

The last Rashad record is immense, I'm addicted to the Gil Scott Heron 'Home Is Where The Hatred Is' sampling/remixing 'I'm Gone' at the moment, the bass is ridic.

The DJ Spinn 12" that just came out on Planet Mu is seriously good.

I just saw this vid today too lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTGP5M3Z9u8

^yeah it's great

not that it's more than like 25% a juke record but did you get the Murderbot album yet...? I'm p sure I like it on some level, it just might need a few more listens before I figure out how superficial of one

I've not heard the record yet no, I've never been that into Murderbot but I dig the track in the video so I'll have to check it out at some point.

I didn't really like the way Rashad flips his samples, sounds lazy - like on the Grace release, the way he uses Roy Ayers - You Send Me. You can't really lose with a sample like that anyway, I mean - we're talking 24 carat gold, but Rashad doesn't really add much. Then again, what it does do is make a Roy Ayers track footwork-able, it's about function?

I'm just looking forward to an RP Boo release.

not strictly footwork but worth a listen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4n2miFAn7M

i just picked up 15 early house/rave 12"s from murderbot on discogs.

yeah i cant decide how i feel about the rashad ghettophiles albums either. its cool to hear those samples in a footwork setting, cos that by default makes it diff/fresh than if it was just some hip hop producer looping them up for the millionth time, but imo he doesnt really do enough to them to make them feel totally integrated into the beat. it feels weird, like the samples running normally then the beat comes into take it off course. after a while you get used to it but im still not totally into the juke tracks that sample old soul/funk songs so liberally. sometimes it just sounds awkward too! like that dj spinn ep on planet mu, i think he samples a stevie song, and it just sounds weird to hear that kind of material made into footwork lol.