Orson Welles

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you're giving him way too much credit for the third man.

ethan, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Oh, _Snatch_ is just fine. Brad Pitt's anti-accent accent (AKA an accent so good it's impenetrable) is faboo. Heather Graham's was a bit ehh (but I liked _From Hell_). (Johnny is way too sexy to let such a thing like a crap accent get in his way.) Don Cheadle's accent in _Ocean's 11_ was a bit, um, interesting.

Orson Welles' late-in-life follies inspired one of the funniest bits shown on the most unfunny "Critic". (Something about frozen peas? It was funny.) His films are pretty good, too (even though _Touch of Evil_ seemed a bit ... disheveled. Or was that _Shanghai_? The one where he has a really fake beard? I saw one of those flicks in a film class after getting no sleep the night before.)

(_Shanghai_ had the funhouse mirror sequence, right?)

David Raposa, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The frozen peas thing was a running gag. By far the funniest thing ever to appear on that show, with the possible exception of the Siskel and Ebert episode.

Welles is classic all the way. His Macbeth is underrated and bizarre as well.

Did anyone read Simon Callow's biography? Seemed pretty snide in tone.

Justyn Dillingham, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Welles GOOD! Crap accents BAD!

Ned Raggett, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

his macbeth is SO GOOD.

ethan, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I was watching Touch of Evil the other day. Mag-ni-fee-cent, all the way. I'll bet the Coen Brothers must have watched it a thousand times...Anyway, don't know about his performance in Lady of Shanghai, but Welles in Evil is unmatchable. Totally steals the show from Heston (so does the Russian actor playing the slimy Mexican mob boss).

Too bad Othello is kind of patchwork, that would have been another great one had he gotten backed fully & up front to film it. I can appreciate Kane historically and for its technical finesse, but I don't really relate to it.

Joe, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Kane, Ambersons, and the rest are all classics, but especially make the effort to track down _F For Fake_. It's the last movie Wells directed and one of the greatest episodes of mindfuckery in ANY movie. One of my faves by far!

Chris Barrus, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Mmmm, Orson Welles

Did he really put dye in his swimming pool to catch guests who peed while swimming?

rosemary, Friday, 8 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

The Trial is also good. Agree with Chris on F For Fake.

Momus, Saturday, 9 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

'the trial' was produced by alex salkind. he produced 'santa claus the movie' also. welles would have starred.

richard john gillanders, Saturday, 9 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

Forget the movies (though most are great). Best thing he did was a series of interviews he did for BBC arena (I think) shortly before he died in '85 where he talks for about 4 hours about his life. Everything you could want from an interview, comedy, red wine, pathos, insight, wicked wit, backbiting. If there's a transcript available I'd love a copy, or better still a video/dvd of the programne.

Billy Dods, Sunday, 10 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

i videoed [sp?] this at the time, and probably still have the video, though whether it still plays or not i don't know (as for the red wine, as I recall viewers had to supply their own sadly)

mark s, Sunday, 10 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I also have the prog on tape, from its original showing, so I can't vouch for the quality (it's a little frightening to realise you still have vidtapes from the early 1980s, some of the unwatched!) But if you're interested, email offlist and I can prob. get a copy made.

Has anyone read the Callow bk on OW(and did they ever publish his vol. 2)? The Thomson, of course, is superb - I love the way that DT swings between being incredibly tough-minded and adoringly effusive.

Andrew L, Sunday, 10 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

It isn't frightening to me. It makes me *even more* bitter that my parents didn't have a VCR until 1991 ...

Robin Carmody, Sunday, 10 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

his accent is supposed to be rather good Emma

It is only 'good' when compared with Heather Graham's. It sounds kind of Australian, which who knows is maybe how eastenders sounded back then, seeing as how that's where the Australian accents derives from (so I'm told and it certainly sounds that way when you think about it). Apparently, the real life Depp character was from Dorset or somewhere but the studios vetoed this bit of obsessive detail-following on the grounds that it would be TOO WEIRD (for Depp or audiences, I'm not sure).

N., Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

That Dorset accent is horribly odd.

chris, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

when they're not trying to sound like cockneys of course.

chris, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

I am about to watch Citizen Kane in 1 hour......to be continued..

Honda, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

F is for Fake -- great mindfuck, partly because it appears that he's hellbent on deconstructing his own cinematic authority when in fact he's doing the OPPOSITE (viz. his locating himself in the editing room) - his capricious excursions and tangents from whatever loose plot there is only underline his ultimate control. especially vis-a-vis the half-naked girls who show up from time to time.

Tracer Hand, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

You sound like you've heard my accent, Chris!

Robin Carmody, Monday, 11 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link

one year passes...
http://www.leenite.org/thecritic/graphics/orsndead.jpg

Dada, Sunday, 7 December 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link

Green Pea-ness!

Prude (Prude), Sunday, 7 December 2003 06:15 (twenty years ago) link

one year passes...
I'm watching F for Fake right now. it's really great, slurry and embarrassing and overcooked, and the art = lying conceit, well: no shit. i can't for the life of me imagine what the original venue or reception of this was supposed to be! it's like welles said: "i will make a shitty documentary that will blow minds when broadcast on the late night television of a compressed and unhappy future" it feels like it's been on for six hours; i could watch it for another twelve.

g e o f f (gcannon), Sunday, 15 May 2005 08:29 (eighteen years ago) link

mmm, yes...they're even BETTER when you're dead!

(uh, x-post by about a year and a half)

joseph (joseph), Monday, 16 May 2005 03:53 (eighteen years ago) link

'F for Fake' is super awesome, I imagine you're watching the new Criterion edition of the film? Make sure you check out the extras on disc 2, specifically 'One Man Band'. I taped that off of BBC telly around '95 and was totally mesmerized by it. When I bought the Criterion discs the liner notes hinted that 'One Man Band' was modeled after 'F for Fake' in that it was full of trickery and outright lies. Watching it again now on the DVD, I can now see (some of) the lies, but the sheer genius of the man can not be denied. And hats off to Oja Kodar for making a film that does him justice.

retort pouch (retort pouch), Monday, 16 May 2005 04:18 (eighteen years ago) link

I love F For Fake. The first cinematic blog?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 16 May 2005 06:01 (eighteen years ago) link

wait...F for Fake is on DVD now? i specifically wrote criterion about this last year and they said they had no plans of working their magic on that one and i ended up just buying it on VHS. those lying bastards...

waxyjax (waxyjax), Monday, 16 May 2005 07:16 (eighteen years ago) link

Any sign of The Immortal Story coming out on DVD?

Marcello Carlin (nostudium), Monday, 16 May 2005 07:24 (eighteen years ago) link

the Criterion Fake is about the most scrumptious thing imaginable. I watched nearly all of it the other night while fighting a head cold, it was PERFECT.

Matos-Webster Dictionary (M Matos), Monday, 16 May 2005 07:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Any sign of The Immortal Story coming out on DVD?

Not that I know of, but Turner Classic Movies is showing the film THIS WEDNESDAY (May 18th) at 11:30pm Eastern.

Either get your VCR ready or find someone who has TCM.

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:10 (eighteen years ago) link

the Criterion Fake is about the most scrumptious thing imaginable.

! I must get this.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:13 (eighteen years ago) link

Between L'Eclisse and F for Fake, Criterion have been covering some heavily coveted bases this year for me. What's next, I have to wonder: a Marcel L'Herbier box set?

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:17 (eighteen years ago) link

His best film, at least post-RKO, might be "Othello."

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:36 (eighteen years ago) link

Saw F for Fake last night on IFC and holy fucking fuck, the man out-Godarded Godard.

Michael Daddino (epicharmus), Monday, 16 May 2005 16:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, Orson.

retort pouch (retort pouch), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:27 (eighteen years ago) link

fermented in the bottle

The Sensational Sulk (sexyDancer), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:39 (eighteen years ago) link

Oh, Orson: Part 2.

(Does his "sellout" material need any defense anymore? It's all priceless.)

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:48 (eighteen years ago) link

Genius, that last one. "What is it you want, in the depths of your ignorance?"

slightly more subdued (kenan), Monday, 16 May 2005 18:59 (eighteen years ago) link

Get ready. Criterion's working on Mr. Arkadin and it's rumored to include something like 3-4 diff. versions of the film.

I wish someone would get on Falstaff/Chimes At Midnight quick. That's a great, great Welles film.

Jay Vee (Manon_70), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:03 (eighteen years ago) link

I Tivo'd F is for Fake yesterday and will check it out this week.

Does anyone remember when Orson Welles was on Moonlighting?

Scott CE (Scott CE), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:07 (eighteen years ago) link

I do!

slightly more subdued (kenan), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link

Criterion's working on Mr. Arkadin and it's rumored to include something like 3-4 diff. versions of the film.

Last I saw on Wellesnet, Rosenbaum was expressing disappointment that this wasn't the case. (Of course, that was months ago.)

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:12 (eighteen years ago) link

Or maybe it was Rosenbaum who was assauging someone else who claimed this wasn't the case. I dunno. Chasing down info on upcoming Criterion releases is stultifyingly annoying.

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:13 (eighteen years ago) link

i saw this on IFC (at what? 2 am?) which was running this "Z Channel weekend" thing, in tribute to an early cable cinephile network that I had never heard of; the doc on THAT was itself really interesting, 70s cokehead rebel hollywood stuff. they were playing all kinds of movies that would have been/were broadcast on it.

g e o f f (gcannon), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:31 (eighteen years ago) link

Did Anyone Else See This IFC Doc on the Z-channel?

Eric von H. (Eric H.), Monday, 16 May 2005 19:37 (eighteen years ago) link

i REALLY need to see "f for fake." actually i am way behind on welles in general. i think all i've seen is kane, touch of evil, lady from shanghai (which is awesome), othello, and... i think that might be it. no, i've never seen ambersons.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 16 May 2005 23:50 (eighteen years ago) link

i really wish "chimes at midnight" were easier to see.

i was reading recently about how as soon as those really bombastic deep-focus shots became identified as "wellesian," he stopped using them.

Amateur(ist) (Amateur(ist)), Monday, 16 May 2005 23:52 (eighteen years ago) link

poor old orson

RJG (RJG), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 00:01 (eighteen years ago) link

Those wine commercial outtakes are tragic, but I can't stop watching them. "muuaaaAAAAH the Frensh shampagnegnnh."

As I understand it, Orson was on some kind of medication that reacted badly with alcohol, so after a few takes - I imagine he had to imbibe the wine at the end of each take - he was incoherent. Then again, the director's voice seems to indicate they were only on takes one, two and three, so maybe he did show up to the set absolutely trousered. I guess we'll never know. Still, awful to see such a great man laid so low.

Some of my favorite Welles performances were on The Dean Martin Show, of all places. The sketch/dance routine with Dean, Orson and Jimmy Stewart at the hairdressers makes me weep with laughter every single time I watch it.

retort pouch (retort pouch), Tuesday, 17 May 2005 00:20 (eighteen years ago) link

one month passes...
"AHHHHH the French" is a punchline in my house. As is "What is it that you want, in the depths of your ignorance?"

I saw F for Fake for the first time last week, and I'm still thinking about it. The way it's edited is so goddamn brilliant. I keep remebering the sequence when the painter is denying that he ever signed a painting, and instead of just cutting to the biographer saying that he did, he lets the camera sit for a long moment on the biographers expression, purse-lipped, not even wanting to comment on a fact so obvious. "Of course they were signed."

Paunchy Stratego (kenan), Wednesday, 13 July 2005 20:19 (eighteen years ago) link

This thread never really got off the ground: TS Rudolph Maté vs. Russell Metty

Isinglass Ponys (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:00 (three years ago) link

I actually haven't seen The Stranger, that may be the case, but some gems in Russell Metty's subsequent work:

Ride the Pink Horse
Magnificent Obsession
All That Heaven Allows
Written on the Wind
A Time to Love and a Time to Die
Touch of Evil
Imitation of Life
Spartacus
The Misfits

flappy bird, Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:02 (three years ago) link

xp Hey now!

flappy bird, Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:02 (three years ago) link

No love for his previous work such as Bringing Up Baby?

Isinglass Ponys (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:07 (three years ago) link

Good lord how the f did I miss that one

flappy bird, Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:08 (three years ago) link

You and Nick Pinkerton both.

Isinglass Ponys (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:17 (three years ago) link

Interesting story I just saw about the studio bringing in Metty to shoot some additional scenes for The Magnificent Ambersons while Welles was out of the country. Welles was annoyed but liked his work which is why he hired him for The Stranger.

Isinglass Ponys (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 27 August 2020 05:22 (three years ago) link

three months pass...

Orson Welles talks to Andy Kaufman about his character Latka on Taxi. pic.twitter.com/laMMceFhp6

— Reconsidering Cinema (@coenesqued) September 27, 2018

I’ve watched this clip at least 20 times in the past week and the zinger welles lands on kaufman around the 20 second mark cracks me up every time. kaufman looked so wounded

k3vin k., Thursday, 10 December 2020 20:02 (three years ago) link

one month passes...

That time Orson Welles almost made a noir thriller with Lucille Ball: https://crimereads.com/orson-welles-lucille-ball-and-the-greatest-thriller-that-never-was/

edited for dog profanity (cryptosicko), Thursday, 4 February 2021 19:34 (three years ago) link

Some interesting tidbits in there about shared DNA between this script and Kane: As it happened, Mankiewicz didn’t hate everything Welles had dreamt up for Smiler. The script opened with a newsreel recounting the life of the Hughes-like heavy; Mankiewicz found the idea clever and kept it in Citizen Kane.

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Friday, 5 February 2021 13:32 (three years ago) link

one year passes...

Examining the Magnificent Ambersons preview comment cards.

https://www.wellesnet.com/magnificent-ambersons-previews/

Precious, Grace, Hill & Beard LTD. (C. Grisso/McCain), Friday, 11 March 2022 20:18 (two years ago) link

“We do not need trouble pictures, especially now… Make pictures to make us forget, not remember.”

O_o

nobody like my rap (One Eye Open), Saturday, 12 March 2022 00:50 (two years ago) link

The David Thomson bio from '95 included several of them, including that comment. Ugh.

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 12 March 2022 01:21 (two years ago) link

Give the people what they want and you will most probably end up with crap.

SQUIRREL MEAT!! (Capitaine Jay Vee), Saturday, 12 March 2022 01:32 (two years ago) link

That theory was most recently discussed on the Kinks-post-1970 thread.

Halfway there but for you, Saturday, 12 March 2022 02:10 (two years ago) link

RKO decided to preview the film in Pomona, a middle class community 30 miles east of Los Angeles at the Fox Theatre following a showing of the Dorothy Lamour musical The Fleets In.

i swear to god. what were these ppl thinking?

(The Other) J.D. (J.D.), Saturday, 12 March 2022 02:25 (two years ago) link

"Bury the bastard."

So who you gonna call? The martini police (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 12 March 2022 02:26 (two years ago) link

one month passes...

Has this been posted anywhere yet?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOmYEssdXg8

Johnny Thunderwords (James Redd and the Blecchs), Thursday, 5 May 2022 20:29 (one year ago) link

one year passes...

The Trial is getting Criterioned:

https://www.criterion.com/films/28115-the-trial

Ned Raggett, Thursday, 15 June 2023 15:58 (ten months ago) link

Finally! (Great, great movie.)

fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Thursday, 15 June 2023 16:21 (ten months ago) link

Indeed.

the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Thursday, 15 June 2023 16:21 (ten months ago) link

Eureka/Masters of Cinema coming out with a limited-edition 4K of Touch of Evil in September.
https://eurekavideo.co.uk/movie/touch-of-evil-limited-edition-box-set-4k-ultra-hd/

TO BE A JAZZ SINGER YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO SCAT (Jazzbo), Thursday, 15 June 2023 16:28 (ten months ago) link

Oh and HERE'S a little tidbit from a friend yesterday on FB who would know:

Today I received the very good news from UCLA Film & TV archive that Paramount is scanning the remaining nitrate footage of It's All True so that it can be preserved! More updates to follow.

Ned Raggett, Saturday, 17 June 2023 17:16 (ten months ago) link

Saw this yesterday, Orson doing Shylock on the Dean Martin Show

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59sNCF80C70

four months pass...

I've been watching Chimes at Midnight again in memory of Keith Baxter, and during Criterion's commentary, James Naremore mentions that one reason Welles probably left for Europe was his politics, something Hollywood would not have liked post-WWII and Naremore says he believes Welles would've been in a lot of trouble had he continued making films in Hollywood like he did at RKO during the height of the Red Scare. Never thought of it before, but he's probably right - brings to mind what people said about the Replacements in the wake of the new Tim reissue, in that things probably turned out for the best. (i.e. had Tim become a massive hit, it's doubtful the band members would've handled it well).

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 October 2023 01:59 (five months ago) link

(He does add that J. Edgar Hoover did indeed have a file on Welles and kept an eye on him as well.)

birdistheword, Thursday, 19 October 2023 02:00 (five months ago) link

one month passes...

On Talking Pictures just now, a 1972 version of "Treasure Island" starring Welles as Long John Silver - based on an unfinished screenplay by Welles, though he asked for his name to be taken from the credits. Story of the film here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treasure_Island_(1972_film)

Didn't know this even existed tbh.

Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 December 2023 18:06 (four months ago) link

... his voice was dubbed... by Robert Rietty!

Free Ass Ange (Tom D.), Saturday, 9 December 2023 18:11 (four months ago) link

why the fuck was welles so into jesus franco anyway

seems like whenever the spanish were involved first thing welles said was "oh well we need to get jesus franco in on this, then, nobody knows more about spain than him"

i'm just saying he might have been better off with rich little. is all.

Kate (rushomancy), Saturday, 9 December 2023 20:23 (four months ago) link


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