Madness: Classic Or Dud?

Did I mention that it's supposed to be a concept album about madness?

I actually can't stomach their cover of this. Labi Siffre's original is just so immaculate.

But they have many good singles (especially Our House), and I am a Two-Tone fan in general.

My overall answer to the original question is obviously HUGE CLASSIC! First favourite band ever, yes!

Rise and Fall is a beautiful LP, to be sure, and quite unexpected in the context of their career.

My favourite is "Seven". By then, they had slowed down a little and started writing a larger number of sophisticated songs. At the same time, there was still some left of their ska roots, and they didn't sound that much like a typical Langer/Winstanley thing. "Grey Day" is the best song they ever wrote IMO.

That being said, "Rise & Fall" was a great album too.

the back catalogue is chocka with some drop dead classics.

i'd add my vote to rise and fall and 7.

but then this was my 1st fave band .. and remained so for many many years. i still love em despite rarely listening to them these days. though the forthcoming ska based album sounds like it could be fun.

extra spooky, since i watched the greatest hits dvd and 'take it or leave it' with the band/director's commentaries on just the other night.

gosh.

i always assumed the band was effectively powered by chris/lee/mike

never expected The Boy to leave the gang first after Barso returned ..

I just saw them over the weekend. I had no idea they were in the states and touring.

They were outstanding!

i love madness. i really fucking love them. why do i never listen to them these days?

Every time I listen to them (which isn't nearly often enough) I keep thinking I should listen to them more. Then I don't.

These guys sucked

Tory turncoat scum, the lot of them.

They are Tories because.......??

I mean, if all traditional typical English working class culture is Tory these days, then the future of Labour seems black if Labour has to rely upon the votes of immigrants only....

stick to the music geir. Please.

then the future of Labour seems black

Is this a Norwegian pun?

Anyone who says "dud" is the nemesis of fun,

They played at the 50th birthday party of the Conservative Party treasurer. They had a choice.

I've been waiting for this from Dom for years. Strange, this moment just arrived now.
And naturally, Dom's wrong.

There isn't a great deal of fun in the later works of Madness.

If you are speaking post-comeback, no.

Dom is Rong. Suggs was good on the Paul Morley thingum last night. Last couple of Madness albums (pre split) were bleak in places, but still great records...

You feeling Suggs as a Virgin Radio drivetime DJ, big man?

I'm feeling killing Suggs for those twatting fish finger adverts.

Shows you how bad that Morley thing must have been if Tory Suggs was the best he could manage.

I heard Johnny The Horse quite unexpectedly the other day and it stopped me in my tracks, I had forgotten how poignant and terribly sad the lyrics were.

As are many many Madness songs to be fair ..
Check out Time For Tea.
Seriously dark
(Kids playing hide and seek and suffocating in a fridge)

*) is Madness videography watching thread a viable thought?? maybe not, I dunno

i recommend watching the DVD with the commentary on, very dry and hilarious

are you coming with me is another dark gem, about a friend of theirs succumbing to drug addiction. and blue-skinned beast is all about dead soldiers coming home from the falklands in body bags.

This is pretty dumb, but I'd nearly forgotten that such things as "DVD with commentary" are a thing. Must hunt down one of those, yes,thanks for tip!

Cosign the DVD commentary

Been revisiting Madness - singles are still great, but in terms of albums, the debut One Step Beyond... was the masterpiece for me. I actually couldn't get into Rise and Fall - though I appreciate the lyrics and ambition, musically a lot it just didn't work for me. I'll hang on to it and revisit it again, but at the moment, some of it sounds overly arranged with very little that's melodically engaging. "Tomorrow's (Just Another Day)" and "Our House" were excellent though.

I realised a few months ago that The Sun & The Rain is one of my favourite songs, full stop.

Rise & Fall has always been my favourite, though latterly Keep Moving has definitely creapt up to neck and neck. The Liberty Of Norton Folgate is absolutely their 21st Century masterpiece, and I think it stands up there with their very best without any caveats, the title track especially. Indeed, I think the post-reunion albums have been incredibly strong, and packed with deep cuts. When I was working on the reissues last year, stuff like this absolute gem would regularly get lodged in my head, and refuse to shift.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO1B2YxNgNc

The Sun & The Rain is absolutely one of their greatest. I used to sing it to my daughter at bed time - it's magnificent.

I realised a few months ago that The Sun & The Rain is one of my favourite songs, full stop.

A few years ago I also realised this

Were I to able to compile such a list, then a top 50 song ever of the all times

.. and from reports of their show in halifax last week, it still is featured in their live sets.

My first true musical love as I'm sure I've said here and elsewhere; I do believe a part of the appeal was how they seemed (truthfully or not) to be a nactual ~gang~ (yknow like the Beatles appear in Hard Day's Night etc).

A few years ago I read some biography, and loved a bit about their particular deal/model for songwriting royalties: Half would go to the credited writers/composers of a song, half would be split equally between all seven, the premise being that arrangement was about as important for success as words + melody.

An especially good deal for Chas, there.

A few years ago I read some biography, and loved a bit about their particular deal/model for songwriting royalties: Half would go to the credited writers/composers of a song, half would be split equally between all seven, the premise being that arrangement was about as important for success as words + melody.

Strangely, this was pretty much the Band's split as well, but not as well-known (hence the myth that none of them except Robertson got much in the way of publishing royalties)..

An especially good deal for Chas, there.

Co-wrote "Our House"! And others. In fact, after Mike Barson left, he was virtually the main songwriter in the band.

Yeah, Chas has songwriting credits all over all of their albums, certainly more than Mark (who nevertheless wrote my favourite Madness song), and as Tom says, really stepped after Barson left.

stepped up.

Yes, but I’d imagine he did far less practical arranging on other members’ songs than the ppl who played instruments?

(Suggs obv wrote scantily, but there’s a lot of interpretation in his phrasing / enunciation / application of ineffable Suggsitude)

Speaking of that, it seems to me that over time, Chas increasingly took on himself a role as custodian of ther Madditude – yes, in particular in combo with Suggs – the "grinning malevolence" that they have (quite rightly I think) identified as their true spirit. I just rewatched the Julian Temple live video thingy from the Norton Folgate era; early on there's a segment with the two in a graveyard in the night, which felt like a reference to the "It Must Be Love" video, where Carl and Lee spring forth to take measurements of Suggs as he stares into a grave (itself quite a striking, dark detournement of the line "I never thought I'd miss you half as much as I do").

Yes, but I’d imagine he did far less practical arranging on other members’ songs than the ppl who played instruments?

Smash played trumpet.

(Suggs obv wrote scantily, but there’s a lot of interpretation in his phrasing / enunciation / application of ineffable Suggsitude)

Suggs wrote tonnes of Madness songs! Two songs on the debut, seven songs on Absolutely (inc Baggy Trousers), four songs on 7, five songs on Rise & Fall, five on Keep Moving, five on Mad Not Mad, three on wonderful, four on Norton Folgate, three on Oui Oui Si Si, five on Can't Touch Us Now...

The Julien Temple thing circa Norton Folgate was very much Chas's idea.

(ta for keeping the thread honest stevie, and apols for hasty posting on zing - I mean that the others play on nearly every track, vs less-frequent trumpet, and Suggs wrote less than a frontman is often assumed to do... ofc the range of writing credits, and variety of writing collaborations amongst members, is one of the most remarkable and admirable things about the group!)

Yes, everybody contributed to the songwriting ... and wrote (or co-wrote) good songs!

*hands out menus* are you ready to order?

I misquoted above, it was "comic malevolence", not "grinning". More fitting, not quite as sinister. This level that is perfectly possible to ignore and only see the fun surface, without there being anything wrong with that.

Madness have this in common with another of my favourite bands: Stump, which are also clearly Not For Everyone. I totally get why one might be allergic to what can be perceived as mere gratuitous zanyness and unwarranted quirk; but for me, as I've mumbled on here on occasions, I find Mick Lynch a fantastic lyricist, employing a multitude of poetic means to give real character to different songs, not least that which could be called "comic malevolence" ("Chaos" could have been written with that phrase in mind). It was a massive YES. MAKES SENSE. THANK YOU moment for me when I read in the recent Whatever Happened to the C86 Kids? book that he was a huge Madness fan.

I also just recently realized (and yeah I know this is the kind of thing that aging guys always go on about with the Beatles etc) that at the release of The Rise and Fall, Suggs had not yet turned twenty-two. Yikes.

Track from the new record, v Barzo sounding (to me)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EmfBzpefz0

That is indeed a Barso song.

My two faves off this are Suggs's ones, the opening Theatre Of The Absurd, and If I Go Mad. The latter really reminds me of Mad Not Mad-era b-side Call Me, which I always loved.

while they rarely step out of their comfort zone these days, they really know how to present themselves now.
their online/video/social media presentation has been fantastic for years.
oh, and had to really dig deep to find 'call me' (disc 3 of 'the business') !
not sure i have ever heard it before, but yeah, its clearly from the MNM era.