Doctor Who: Classic or Dud?

Why did Young Dumbledore continue to uphold the 'Christmas Tradition' of letting KJenks out every year once he knew she only had a week to live? Wouldn't it make more sense to a 10 year old boy's brain to give her a week with Old Dumbledore instead?

He didn't know she only had a week to live until the Marilyn party. At that point they stopped letting her out and he told the Doctor to stop bothering and started to turn into dickish old Dumbledore.

I mean we don't know how much young Dumbledore knew about all of that beyond "I grow up into an evil monster". I sort of missed the bit when the Doctor put him back though.

When Young Dumbledore appeared at the end (the whole Ghost of Christmas Future bit) he finds out the whole story about her before any of it started (that was him from the first time they met). So he willingly denied his later self extra time with her by using it up on their Christmas Eve trips - even the ones where he was too young to FEEL THE LURVE.

Actually, that means when she tells him (on their last Christmas Eve trip) it shouldn't affect him because he knows already.

the audience just hasn't seen the bit where the doctor goes back and changes that

Top Rusty handwaving, that.

it's Moffatt's handwave!

I guess the kid at the end now has to leave everyone locked up all thos years bcz he knows 4003 people will die otherwise?

No, I meant your handwave - Moffatt didn't even attempt to explain it.

Where were the Time Pterodactyls from "Father's Day"?

It's less handwaving and more "don't look at the problem and pretend it doesn't exist because 99% of your audience doesn't care". He's already had two Amy's running around together.

Still, the kid has to keep letting Katherine Jenkins out because a) if he doesn't she has no emotional resonance for his future self and the Doctor's plan falls apart b) the Doctor keeps coming back and encouraging him and c) he is a child with an evil father and no friends and you do not deprive a child with an evil father and no friends of his one bit of fun and adventure at Christmas. Also the level of resolve required in later years would be frankly beyond any teenage boy.

If 99% of your audience doesn't care then don't put in in-jokes like the Christmas Eve numbered 4 featuring the pair of them wearing long scarves. We did this in the Rusty era too, that you can't simultaneously say that continuity doesn't matter at the same time as putting in lots of jokes 'for the fans'.

Why do I put myself through this every time? Maybe I should just stick to watching The Aztecs.

Bah humbug? :)

No, I meant your handwave - Moffatt didn't even attempt to explain it.

It's a Moffatt quote.

(his attitude generally towards the story was clearly illustrated in the bit with the non-existent fish nipping at Smith and mini-Gambon going "shurrup and just enjoy it!"*)

you can't simultaneously say that continuity doesn't matter at the same time as putting in lots of jokes 'for the fans'.

of course you can! a mildly amusing in-joke for someone who spots in in the two half-second bits it's on screen doesn't require EVERYONE to have read a dozen Virgin Adventures.

* admittedly this attitude (re Christmas capers particularly, though RTD cranked it up all the time) was inherited from Rusty, on whom I hated it and felt insulted as an audient, whereas I am happy to go with it for Moffatt bcz a) I like the tone of his stories much better and b) his holes are small things that you might as well ignore if you go in wanting to have fun, whereas Rusty's were enormous, stupid, and horrible that would snap you out of being able to have fun v v often.

I enjoyed but I was so tired that the fact of the fish themselves really annoyed me in a "Oh come on" way.
I'm going to rewatch bc I drifted off in a couple of parts.
So that singing lady really does sing like that irl?

^^ I also enjoyed aldo's nitpicking moany attitude on Rusty thread's bcz I agreed with him there, but wish there was a 48-hour aldo moratorium on Smith-era threads bcz he harshes the general buzz that I now want to let settle before thinking back over them too much. tl;dr = Veg otm in previous xpost, lol

^^ although I did see this one 9 days ago and had a lovely few days of "that was fun" before rolling nitpicks around in my head and waiting to rewatch on tx

When did Gambon's actual brain change, because how you think shouldn't change your brain pattern (if that's how it works)?

btw i don't think this happened? what i understood from the action was that bcz baby-Gambon became a different kind of person after hanging out w K Jenkins and the Doctor, so his dad didn't consider him a fit successor and chose someone else for the controls to be isomorphically bonded to.

why the controls were nevertheless still in his living room (why it was still his living room), though, no idea.

No, the Doctor specifically says it doesn't work because Old Dumbledore isn't the same man any more because the plot has changed him.

If that's a genuine Moffatt handwave then megalulz@that, he's even lazier than Lawrence Miles thinks he is.

ps lol Geordie LaForge

― Stay J0rdan Fresh (sic), Sunday, December 26, 2010 2:27 AM (5 hours ago)

Mary Worth to thread, she would know what to do.

pretty sure Moffat's lazy when it comes to anything that isn't about the different narrative possibilities of time travel. it's his silly, contrary response to Rusty's technobabble ie "big, flashy, lighty thing", as opposed to some nonsense about reversing the polarity of the quantum electrodimensional charge or wtv. Hell he even pokes fun at himself for doing it - we're clearly meant to take the kid's side and think the shark just liked Abigail's singing as opposed to the Doctor going on about her voice having the right frequency.

I dunno, Moffatt-era plotholes would annoy me if they were on any other season/tv show but I'm not really bothered by them for some reason. Maybe it's cause even at his darkest, he seems to write primarily for kids and thus looks at small details with a "the kids aren't going to care, why should we?" attitude. plus sometimes i suspect he puts them in just to annoy aldo(s).

didn't see why this couldn't have had a bit more amy or rory btw - it was a bit boring with the Doctor not having anyone to exchange zings with.

Kid who played young Michael Gambon was a good little actor, I thought.

didn't see why this couldn't have had a bit more amy or rory btw - it was a bit boring with the Doctor not having anyone to exchange zings with.

Yeah! Not sure I agree with your statement, but making Rory really prominent midway through last season was a great move.

Rory listed in the opening credits for the first time I noticed.

Why was Rory in a Centurion suit, again?

Bc he was a part of that trap that the aliens made using Amy's memory and then he became a real boy (also he protected Amy for like a thousand years or something?)

I just forgot there was never a part where they went home and changed into regular clothes, I guess?

he was wearing regular clothing at the wedding iirc which happened afterwards so idk

Why was Rory in a Centurion suit, again?

Honeymoon hi-jinx.

Yes, strongly implied they were wearing what they were for sexing shenanigans and nothing else.

Yeah, was sexytimes fun (was sort-of explained when they came out of the honeymoon suite)

xpost

didn't see why this couldn't have had a bit more amy

this was a major shortcoming

I thought we all decided we hated Amy?? Maybe that doesn't apply when she's in the kissogram outfit.

Kind of hate her character bc of the timey wimey weirdness and flighty annoyingness.... but she's ridiculously cute

I thought we all decided we hated Amy??

we decided nothing of the sort

I really liked this--first properly Christmassy Christmas special, nice lines for Matt, loves me some Gambon, the kid was very good, clever time travel twist on Dickens--ya boo sux to those who didn't like it; that is all

Have noticed the repeats on BBC America have LOADS of really intrusive edits.

Funny that, I've always assumed the rationale behind the episodes being 45 mins was to allow them to fit into an hour slot with ad breaks.

Does BBC America have ad breaks?

BBC America has ad breaks approximately every two minutes (I exaggerate, but they are seriously often). It's terribly disconcerting when BBC programming is chopped up, if you're used to the British lack of adverts.

The cuts are annoying, too - in the Kylie Xmas episode, the bit at the end where they fail at getting her out of the fireball is excised completely. Lazarus Experiment on in about five minutes, so will check for dumb edits.

Did anyone watch the Doctor Who 'Proms' thing with the music and stuff at Royal Albert Hall? It was corny as hell but I enjoyed it.

So that singing lady really does sing like that irl?

yes she does

Pretty amazing pipes for a little gal!

BBC America has ad breaks approximately every two minutes (I exaggerate, but they are seriously often). It's terribly disconcerting when BBC programming is chopped up, if you're used to the British lack of adverts.

The cuts are annoying, too - in the Kylie Xmas episode, the bit at the end where they fail at getting her out of the fireball is excised completely. Lazarus Experiment on in about five minutes, so will check for dumb edits.

― tl;dr swinton (suzy), Tuesday, 28 December 2010 01:55 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

so is this how they combat online piracy or

I really liked this--first properly Christmassy Christmas special, nice lines for Matt, loves me some Gambon, the kid was very good, clever time travel twist on Dickens--ya boo sux to those who didn't like it; that is all

― buildings with goats on the roof (James Morrison), Monday, 27 December 2010 10:37 (Yesterday) Bookmark

Not a big Gambon fan but otherwise OTM. What wasn't to like? Felt like one of the best nu-Who episodes so far, Christmas special or otherwise.

I like how the bearded Doctor looked like the Geico Caveman yet still inexplicably hot.

Kind of a lesser "The Girl in the Fireplace," though? I got a very dark vibe underneath the sentimentality.

Ooh yes. Good call there.

guys: i thought this over, and i really, really liked the episode. flying shark was perfect calculated nonsense, and the singing was just loverly.