Josef K - Classic or Dud

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well the homosexuals cd cost like $22 for a 3 cd pack so i can't really complain. also, the paul haig dance tune on crepiscule is great.

― creme1, Sunday, 22 April 2007 12:39 (seventeen years ago) link

The recordings are rather monochrome, but I always had hopes that they would have expanded their sound. I saw them live quite a few times, including I think their first gig (George Square Theatre with Scars, Another Pretty Face and The Visitors). They were kinda funny (in a smirking, aware of their own absurdity way rather than Laugh Out Loud).

They were much less austere than their recordings too, one gig I recall they all wore Kaftans and played a Doors Cover (strange days), using snippets of the United States of America album inbetwwen songs.

― Sandy Blair, Sunday, 22 April 2007 13:29 (seventeen years ago) link

Paul Haig has a lot of great songs amidst his solo career. It helps if you like electronic dance new wave music of course. Big Blue World, The Only Truth, Heaven Help You Now, Never Give Up-Party Party, Running Away, Blue For You are all pretty great. If you're looking for something a bit more Josef K in the solo stuff, check out the b-side Chance from the Heaven Help You Now single. It's pretty fast and angsty.

― dan selzer, Sunday, 22 April 2007 15:26 (seventeen years ago) link

yeah the 12" i've got is "heaven sent" on les disques du crepiscule. it's pretty choice new york sounding dance pop with diva backing vocals. i'd like to hear his stuff with billy mckenzie.

― creme1, Sunday, 22 April 2007 15:35 (seventeen years ago) link

check out the Rhythm of Life single here:

http://wiels.com/blog/index.php?entry=entry070126-013801

― dan selzer, Sunday, 22 April 2007 16:16 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan, my Chic comment was a reference to this one above:

"Josef K's pop imperfection, for me, was about listening to too much David Bowie and insufficient Chic."

I listen to Chic for dancing and revolution.

And right, there are a few good tracks on Astral Glamour left off the Morphius disc. But precious, precious few, way less than anyone will let on, e.g. that George Harrasment stuff on Astral Glamour is an unlistenable nightmare.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 22 April 2007 19:42 (seventeen years ago) link

speak for yourself! I love George Harrasment, spent many years trying to find a copy, never did. Lost a 100 dollar ebay bid for it. Ended up taping it from a friend. At least half of GH, while low-fi fragments, are beautiful little gems, stuff like ToTo Rello, Calvary, Yoghurt, I'd recommend to any fan of Syd, or Skip Spence or whatever. Then there's the Prestel/You're Not Moving single, Total Drop, the Vencerwemos tape stuff like Mad Bombers, Still Living in My Car and Pamela, and finally the Sir Alick single, Nursery Chymes and In Search of the Perfect Baby. None of that is on the Morphius CD, and much of it is essential, and as good if not better then what's on the Morphius CD.

Regarding the original Chic comment, I don't know, Josef K is just funky enough.

― dan selzer, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:37 (seventeen years ago) link

They were much less austere than their recordings too, one gig I recall they all wore Kaftans and played a Doors Cover (strange days), using snippets of the United States of America album inbetwwen songs.

Wow you don't know how many times I've been tempted to try that United States of America album. I even saw it on vinyl recently, like two times. Can't get away from that thing.

― Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:50 (seventeen years ago) link

Wait - is there a George Harassment Hyped 2 Death CD or what?

― Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 20:51 (seventeen years ago) link

Well, I was speaking for myself, Dan.

Bimble, George Harrasment is included on the Hyped 2 Death CD, maybe in its entirety. Dan would know this better than me. Low-fi fragments? Sure. Beautiful little gems? Not hardly, speaking strictly for myself.

And the United States of America album is pretty nifty. Even Joe Carducci liked it, largely because their rhythm section cooked. Still, you can live happily with just "The Garden Of Earthly Delights," their finest, rockingest moment.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 22 April 2007 21:20 (seventeen years ago) link

But WHICH Hyped 2 Death CD??? There's only about a zillion of them.

― Bimble, Sunday, 22 April 2007 21:24 (seventeen years ago) link

Hyped2Death the label. He's talking about Astral Glamour, the 3 CD Homosexuals set. I'm not going to convince Kevin that Toto Rello is beautiful, but those who haven heard it, I highly recommend it, and I'd hate to think anyone avoided it because somebody thinks it's an "unlistenable nightmare"!

The United States of America record is great fun and I'd say there's at least a few other killer songs on there...The American Metaphysical Circus is where Broadcast learned how to sound, Cloud Song is pretty, and Coming Down is a killer rock/pop song that makes Stereolab weep.

― dan selzer, Sunday, 22 April 2007 22:16 (seventeen years ago) link

so,,,,,,about that Josef K--creme1, if you're still paying attention, here are the lyrics to Forever Drone:

we're shifting in to setting sight
the transatlantic motion flight
so much up here to pass by
are your ideas so hard to try
stormtime and other distraction drink some gin, soak the action
drive all winter, listen to noise
lights behind, yellow noise
i'm on this trip, it's so much fun
a depth of view it's never re-run
so much up here to pass by
are your ideas so hard to try
it's cold and time inside my car, never still till the next harbour
ambient drone from all around inside
our live that certain sound
ambient drone, soaking full
inside my ear i need a tool,
i'll act after fade away
don't need the cash, just decay

― nerve_pylon, Sunday, 22 April 2007 22:35 (seventeen years ago) link

Josef K is what I always wanted Joy Division to sound like. It really is cool how they're the flipside of the Orange Juice coin. What about the other postcard bands? The only one that comes to mind right now is the Associates, but I know there were others. Are they in the same ballpark as Josef K and Orange Juice?

― jposnan, Sunday, 22 April 2007 22:57 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't think there were any Associates releases on Postcard, they just get associated because they were scottish and on the same scene, as were the Scars, Boots For Dancing, Article 58, Flowers, Restricted Code, Metropark, Aztec Camera and most importantly, Fire Engines.

― dan selzer, Sunday, 22 April 2007 23:08 (seventeen years ago) link

Let's be VERY precise: George Harassment is included on the Astral Glamour CD released by Hyped2Death. I don't know if the entirety of George Harassment appears on Astral Glamour but if not, some of it definitely does. Ask Dan.

And Dan, I've just listened to "ToTo Rello" five times, three times on repeat, twice in a sequence of a few George Harassment songs. I admit it's pretty and would fit inoffensively somewhere on a mix-CD. But bookended by "Symphonic Thais" and "Yoghurt," it just sinks into inconsequentiality. At least "Calvary" has a sort of Suckdog campire caterwaul going for it. Not much in my book but still preferable to the faux-folk of "Symphonic Thais" and "Yoghurt." The former gets interesting with only nine seconds left (of a 1:30 track). On purpose, one imagines. But what's the purpose - to actively destroy pleasure? And "Yoghurt," sheesh! It sounds like a freakin' Brady Bunch demo. What is their to chew on in this song? Come on, dude - do you REALLY "highly recommend" a song like "Yoghurt?" It's really essential listening to you? Really?

That said, I do love most of the Morphius disc/disc one of the Hyped2Death.

And to bring this back to Josef K ever so slightly, Bimble, if you opt for the Morphius disc over the Hyped2Death set, you'll have extra $ left over to buy The Best of Chic Voulme 2 (Rhino 1992). A wise investment. Funkier too.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Sunday, 22 April 2007 23:15 (seventeen years ago) link

i don't remember...I'd have to look up a bunch of things, but do note that half of the vocals on the GH tracks that are on Astral Glamour were recorded by Bruno for the CD release, and you can pretty much tell. It's interesting, but doesn't always work.

But I love all 3 of the GH tracks you mention, and I highly recommend them! I've always loved Yoghurt, I don't know why, I don't chew on anything, I just love it, the melodies, the back-up vocals. It is absolutely essential listening to me, as someone who has considered the Homosexuals a favorite band for many years. But it's not essential like Prestel is. If someone owns the Morphius disc and has passed judgement on the Homosexuals without hearing Prestel, they don't know what they're missing. Yoghurt may not change their life, but Prestel, is as good or better then anything on the Morphius disc.

So I recommend getting the 3 CD set!

― dan selzer, Sunday, 22 April 2007 23:25 (seventeen years ago) link

Postcard didn't really have a signature sound. Aztec Camera played acoustic folk-pop. Their first album, "High Land, Hard Rain," is a classic. The main member, Roddy Frame, was a bit of a musical prodigy who wrote killer songs and played guitar like an adolescent Django Reinhardt. Postcard also put out a single by The Go Betweens which can easily be found on any number of anthologies. In addition, there were several bands that signed to Postcard but never released anything: The French Impressionists, Bourgie Bourgie, and the Jazzateers. The French Impressionists played a new-wave style cocktail jazz several years before Sade hit the scene. All their stuff has been re-issued on LTM. I've never heard Bourgie, Bourgie or the Jazzateers.

― leavethecapital, Sunday, 22 April 2007 23:27 (seventeen years ago) link

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=78121857

― dan selzer, Monday, 23 April 2007 00:13 (seventeen years ago) link

thanks for that link dan. it was good to see the tam dean burn clip - he's my favourite living scotsman. sorry to momentarily go off topic but next sunday in glasgow should be quite an event - james chance is playing his first ever scottish gig and all four members of the fire engines are going to be in attendance. i'm looking forward to eavesdropping in on the conversation when they meet.

did bourgie bourgie really sign to postcard? wasn't postcard over long before they even formed?

― stirmonster, Monday, 23 April 2007 04:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Postcard did start up again at some point, wasn't one of the Nectarine No. 9 releases on a 90s version of Postcard.

― dan selzer, Monday, 23 April 2007 05:11 (seventeen years ago) link

Bourgie Bourgie were on MCA and appeared a couple of years after postcard were putting out records. There were a couple of bands
- The Bluebells were another one - that were kinda postcard, in that Alan Horne was associated with them - but didn't actually put out postcard singles. I used to see Alan and Paul shopping in Byres Road safeways all the time, though not since its changed to a Sommerfields... Not surprising really its rubbish.

Erm anyway, I'm not all that keen on Bourgie Bourgie, sure Paul Quinn has the vocal chops and the music was kinda well made (wasn't it the bloke who was in The Leopards?)... but the Sade-ish cocktail jazz goes too close to that Glasgow 1983-4 sound from the Precious Organisation bands like Love and Money, Hue and Cry, Del Amitri, the Wets etc. and I never liked that much.

― Sandy Blair, Monday, 23 April 2007 07:18 (seventeen years ago) link

yup, sommerfields on byres road sucks. i have never seen alan horne in there but have bumped into the odd blue niler, pastel and bluebell in there before i deserted it in favour of m&s. that precious organisation sound was thee sound of (then) young glasgow when i moved here and boy did i hate it, but for some reason i always had a soft spot for bourgie bourgie's 'breaking point'.

― stirmonster, Monday, 23 April 2007 07:48 (seventeen years ago) link

Oh I like Quinn's vocals in Breaking Point (and Apree Ski... not so much careless) but here's a thought experiment that will ruin it... listen to it and pretend its Pat Kane singing. Actually don't do that to Breaking Point... try it with careless, its less of a loss.

There was quite a significant split in the Glasgow music seen around then, places like Henry Afrikas / Rock Garden / Nicos / that piano place under the building next to Charing Cross would have the fledgling Dels, Hue and Deacons - and a quite a few others, Hipsway, bathers etc...

Against that were the folks starting to come through in the wake of the Pastels, playing at places like Daddy Warbucks, Fury Murrays etc.

I'm not suggesting that the scenes didn't meet, Glasgow didn't have enough venues to have such scenes isolated. But my theory (which I just made up right now) is that both were Postcards fledglings.

― Sandy Blair, Monday, 23 April 2007 12:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Postcard Mark II put out some good things. I've still got a Nectarine No. 9 CD that's quite good. Postcard's Vic Godard album, "The End of the Surrey People" is a forgotten classic. Someone should re-issue that ASAP. Wasn't their also some Horne connection with Davey Henderson's post-Fire Engines band Win?

― leavethecapital, Monday, 23 April 2007 23:54 (seventeen years ago) link

I think most of the Win stuff came out on London and Virgin, though it seems like some early releases were on a label called Swamplands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Win_(band)

Time to update wikipedia as Henderson now has a single out as The Sexual Objects.

― dan selzer, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 00:37 (seventeen years ago) link

So, the consensus from the thread is that my vague boredom with Josef K comes more from only hearing Young and Stupid and some C81 track than from any lack of talent on their part?

― I eat cannibals, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 02:13 (seventeen years ago) link

The consensus, yes. But I say run with your boredom all the way to Chic.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 02:18 (seventeen years ago) link

Kevin, man, I'm already a Chic fan, this is something I feel you failed to take note of through perhaps no fault of your own.

My opinion is if people don't like Josef K's Young & Stupid, they've missed the best Josef K release out of hand. Might as well give up.

― Bimble, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 02:22 (seventeen years ago) link

Ok, I guess I'd have you over for dinner knowing you liked Chic and Josef K.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 04:01 (seventeen years ago) link

I disagree. If you don't like Young and Stupid...if you don't like It's Kinda Funny and Sorry for Laughing and the Missionary...I don't think you're gonna change your mind when you hear everything else.

But the fact that it bores you doesn't mean they don't have talent, or that it's too bad they don't sound more like Chic. It means YOU DON'T LIKE JOSEF K.

― dan selzer, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 04:10 (seventeen years ago) link

I didn't say they didn't have talent; but it IS too bad they don't sound more like Chic. This is something you couldn't say of Change or High Fashion.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 04:26 (seventeen years ago) link

Dan - you don't know the SWAMPLANDS label? A major label-distributed effort by Alan Horne and pals, not only did they release the best material Davy Henderson ever worked on (possibly short of "Candyskin"), but one of the best "Postcard-ish" releases ever in the James King & the Lone Wolves 12", plus among the best Edwyn Collins and Paul Quinn efforts - and the James Kirk "Memphis" 12" was pretty swell too. A nearly perfect label! And I've never heard the John Cale-produced JK & the LWs album - said to be the most satisfying Postcard-related music ever.

― deedeedeextrovert, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 04:30 (seventeen years ago) link

I'm still not quite sure what you're talking about. I understand you may want Josef K to be more dancey. That's fine. I don't listen to Josef K for dancing, or DJ Josef K for dancing. What this has to do with Change and High Fashion, I'm not sure. They are DANCE bands! Josef K was an angsty post-punk band. Some artists mixed those two things amazingly well. Josef K didn't, and neither do Chic, Change or High Fashion.

Don't know about Swamplands but I'll look into it. Am I the only person who prefers Meat Whiplash to Candyskin?

― dan selzer, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 04:35 (seventeen years ago) link

No, I'm with Kevin, here, actually. There's one particular really deliciously funky Josef K song that I always wished there was a little more in the Josef K catalogue to go along with. I think it's Heart of Song.

Change do indeed sound a lot like Chic, I've never heard of High Fashion, but will give them a listen.

― Bimble, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 04:53 (seventeen years ago) link

I don't know...despite "post-punk" and "disco" being two of the major interests of mine, and despite often loving when they mix, I feel like I prefer not to force it, and particularly with the angst of some post-punk, I like that it's not quite funky. I used to play Josef K, Manicured Noise, Boots for Dancin, Fire Engines, etc in dance sets but it usually didn't work. I stick with ACR and She is Beyond Good and Evil when I try to get some uk post-punk in my disco sets.

― dan selzer, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 05:06 (seventeen years ago) link

The Josef K I remember listening to was definitely an angsty post-punk band. But it was also a funky (or "funky") one like a lot angsty post-punk bands. Vaguely "We Are All Prostitutes" or "Hungry So Angry" though I never heard anything that could match those two. Unless senility has set in, Josef K sounded to me like a dance band of the Hurrah's variety.

― Kevin John Bozelka, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 05:09 (seventeen years ago) link

For once we agree. I can imagine people dancing to Josef K in the way they'd pogo and freak out to other angsty angular stuff or the way I imagine Hurrahs to have taken place. We Are All Prostitutes and Hungry So Angry are a bit more disco/funk, while She is Beyond Good and Evil and Do the Du destroy dancefloors.

― dan selzer, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 05:15 (seventeen years ago) link

two years pass...

Bimble was right about "Young And Stupid". Brilliant Peel sessions, singles tracks and other odds and ends make this essential, frenetic post-punk listening.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 23 April 2010 00:29 (fourteen years ago) link

Oh, and anyone want to suggest a best-of Paul Haig's post-Josef K material? I like the bits I've heard on various compilations.

― Gerald McBoing-Boing, Friday, 23 April 2010 00:47 (fourteen years ago) link

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