They sold a forward who had gone shit on them and bought two cracking players,only spending a couple mill.actual decent bit of business.
― À la recherche du temps Pardew (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:06 (thirteen years ago) link
Potentially, yes it is. I feel they could be spectacular if they click.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:09 (thirteen years ago) link
It feels like Kenny's been watching Carroll's potential and thought he's got to have him at any cost because if he fulfils it he'll be the decade's defining player. Like signing Shearer and trying to get Keane, or Ferguson with Rooney. Plenty of counterexamples, depending on taste.
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:13 (thirteen years ago) link
like Duncan Ferguson to Rangers maybe
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:20 (thirteen years ago) link
I bet Kenny has nothing to do with transfers though? Damien got this thing on lock.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:23 (thirteen years ago) link
That is a massive massive "if" in Ismael's version of the reasoning. I quite believe it though. It's weird though, onimo and I were discussing in the pub last night how Celtic got a guy who scored more goals in the Championship last season than Carroll, presumably with a lot less effective service than would be afforded by Newcastle's other players, for only £2m. Is Carroll REALLY worth 17.5 Gary Hoopers, especially taking his, um, challenging behaviour into account?
― ailsa, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:32 (thirteen years ago) link
he is, liverpool made it official.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:34 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah, s'pose. And I *know* that that's just how it works, but it just baffles me sometimes when I sit down and actually think about it.
― ailsa, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:41 (thirteen years ago) link
I would recommend never thinking about these things. Personally learnt this is dangerous when Bent went for more than Henry a few summers back
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:43 (thirteen years ago) link
English player transferring between epl clubs = cheerio to the laws of god,man and nature.
― À la recherche du temps Pardew (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:57 (thirteen years ago) link
Henry's career has not exactly been stellar since that point though.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 11:58 (thirteen years ago) link
Carroll is inevitably going to end up at Spurs at some point in his career, before running down the clock at West Ham.
Great piece by Martin Samuel.
http://tinyurl.com/62n96wq
― isn't house rubbish and Pete W mental (Pete W), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 12:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Yeah he only won La Liga, was Barca's top scorer his first season and won the Champions League, broke the 100 barrier of international caps, played with potentially the greatest soccerballer ever...
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 12:06 (thirteen years ago) link
And then he went to shit. You don't spend enormous sums of money on players with only two good seasons left in them.
― Matt DC, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 12:21 (thirteen years ago) link
Thread really needs lots of people throwing around the word "amortization" as if they know what it means.
― Inspector Anthony Slade, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 12:25 (thirteen years ago) link
It means breaking up the amount over the length of a contract - not that hard to do 35/5=7m per year
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 12:28 (thirteen years ago) link
pete w i shake my little fist at you
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:05 (thirteen years ago) link
me: not sure what i think of this yethttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1352649/Martin-Samuel-Fair-play-Roman-75m-reaches-needy.html me: mostly 'o god' Sent at 12:55 PM on Wednesday Benjamin: mostly 'just no' me: yes'this given climate of money necessitates the need for more money' Benjamin: it inflates the market and so perpetuates the divide between those clubs that have and those that have not me: i.e. what you just said Benjamin: yesit's unbelievably boring me: i skimmed it and thought 'oh no trickle down' Benjamin: Chelsea were trying to live off their own resources and doing very badly so Abrahaovich just hit the CHEAT button me: 'that shit is predicated on there BEING mega-rich clubs patronising smaller ones'yes Benjamin: it's kind of admission of failure me: an admission that football is a free-market insanezone Benjamin: I only hope that UEFA stand firm by their financial fair play rules and boot Chelsea out of Europeyes me: :Dand it's also trying to say that the clubs are less venal than the organiserswhich may not even be true Benjamin: what will redress the gap between big and small clubs is to stop big clubs being able to throw around £70m that they don't have me: it's the TV companies who control the finances at an administrative level anywayexactlyit means that some money 'trickles down' but all players 'trickle up'and competition is stifled Benjamin: yescf Spanish League me: and the money that 'trickles down' merely increases the moneyand not the competition Benjamin: where much of inequality comes about from the fact that Barca and Real buy up all the other teams' good players to be in their reserves me: sellable assets mean sold assets Benjamin: yes me: hence, viva blackpoolhaha Benjamin: ho ho me: chelsea did that toocf parker, sidwell etcyeah we got roman's moneynow we're in league onethe money culture DOESN'T save clubsit merely inflates prices Benjamin: yes me: hence more money is put to use on buying fewer players Benjamin: yes me: now we buy players for fairer pricesin the lower leaguesand it's much betterwe're not continually blowing our wad on flopsin the end, the money culture forces clubs to gamblerather than slowly build Benjamin: yes me: arsenal and spurs are better than most at doing this Benjamin: eg. Bent, Bentley, Modric me: but even they have their momentsyes Benjamin: yesthat's why I was worried about a £30m bid for Rossi me: you dodged a bullet Benjamin: he is pretty goodbut...Spanish League is crapAguero I would have more confident with me: "Suppose you are one of the Manchester council workers losing a job, but also a Manchester City supporter. This will be a thoroughly miserable time for you, with perhaps one small pleasure: the hope your team could win the league." Benjamin: though he's small me: o_Ohow fucking condescending Sent at 1:06 PM on Wednesday Benjamin: yes me: "Remove the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Inter Milan and Chelsea from the competition, insert Bolton Wanderers or Sunderland instead, and see how long its popularity endures with supporters, sponsors and television companies.After all, who doesn't love the Europa League? Thursday night, Channel Five."die, martin samuel Benjamin: the free market's fine in football and in life if you consent to having an incredibly boring existence me: yes, one ruled by the inevitability of submission Benjamin: where the rich have no fear of losing what they have and the poor have no possibility of bettermentbut get the lie that they too could become big me: this is why american sports are better-organised Benjamin: yesthough they have the problem of a certain randomness what with the draft me: that's great though :Dyou're talking to someone who would love a bit more randomness at charlton, crisp owl or nowe have signed BWPand he is scoringso i guess that'll doBenjamin: maybe but it makes developing a club difficult me: haha yeah I supposethere has to be a balanceliving off fair means Benjamin: yes me: and getting in players through scouting and trials Benjamin: yesBarca realised it first and then Arsenal me: there needs to be more of a bond of loyalty between players and clubs - contracts are too idolised Benjamin: i'm not sure it's strictly a finacial thingit also helps ability me: you don't hear about barca players' contracts Benjamin: the problem is it takes many many years to come through me: yeah Benjamin: not that Barca aren't blameless or anything me: of course notthey have the TV rights of an entire leagueat their mercy Benjamin: I think part of the other problem in spain is that English football has much mroe of a history of competition whereas Spain does notit makes is hard to implement change because a lot of the population simply don't care that much me: so it's accepted that only two teams will ever really win. so it's an overhyped scotland Benjamin: yesthat's the other thingwhole leagues have fallen aprt me: whereas english football is slowly choking the smaller clubs Benjamin: Dutch, Scottish me: yeah Benjamin: Italy is a bit differentit's much more their fault me: the bigger leagues have squeezed the smaller oneswell italian players usually prefer to play in italyso there's at least a governable elementit's not all free-market savagery Benjamin: maybe the problems there are that stadiums are crap and that calciopolli really hammered a lot of the big clubs me: in a way, the italian parochialism fits what a 'football club' should be Benjamin: maybethough less racist me: a localised means of gathering the townsfolk behind a common causehey, there are a few really left-wing clubs in italy yknow Benjamin: yes but.. me: anyway, osasuna beating rmad shows that the magic is still there, sometimesit will just eventually founderunder the might of hard cashthis is why the cliche of 'real football' in the lower-leagues has some truth to it Benjamin: yes though that's not without it's own problemsNotts CountyLeedsCrawley me: yeah well that's what you get when you let people pour money into football clubs rather than let the club grow organicallyclubs should get their money from the attending fansideally, there shouldn't be money at all and we should live in a big hippie communewhere football clubs are arranged by loyalty and bond of wordand where fernando torres wouldn't have to fake new words of excitement when he moved'i just wanna play with this lot now'weeps openly Benjamin: yeshttp://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/writers/sid_lowe/archive/see articles 3,4,5 me: are they related Benjamin: yes me: excellent Benjamin: although I think you should read them 5,4,3
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:22 (thirteen years ago) link
wd like to add that you don't hear abt barca players' contracts because they're obviously ALL fucking enormous and what is interesting about that? players go there to have the best of every world except credible competition. much prefer the youth-system barcelona to the global-hegemony barcelona
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:31 (thirteen years ago) link
sid lowe is whipping me up into a righteous froth that I was already heading towards
I'm all for EITHER absolutely savage free-market, no artificial barriers to entry and investment, OR a set-up along US lines with more even distribution of resources. And given a choice, I'd prefer the latter.
Platini's plans are a fudge that don't get to the heart of the problem, which is the reward structure of the Champions League, which is the 'money culture' encapsulated.
― isn't house rubbish and Pete W mental (Pete W), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:35 (thirteen years ago) link
Well the clubs who win the most will make the most money will pay the best wages will get the best players because they do so they can win the most.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:36 (thirteen years ago) link
I just really hope Chelsea win the CL asap and Roman subsequently says 'ok game over, hope u had fun', would be fitting
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:40 (thirteen years ago) link
nah, one taste of it and you want it every year, who am I kidding :(
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:41 (thirteen years ago) link
Ideal situation sees RA celebrating his win by setting John Terry on fire.
― James Mitchell, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:42 (thirteen years ago) link
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:36 (5 minutes ago)
this logic may seem immutable to you, but to me it traduces what a football club should be
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:42 (thirteen years ago) link
I think our culture of having the manager run everything is a big problem. It is fine when it is Moyes or Wenger and they will never be fired but most managers have 6 months to prove themselves and so fuck it, spend all the money to try to prove yourself and not care about the youth system/bring in your own coaches and new scouts and physios etc. etc. - Lyon got it right in part because they would just tell the manager that morning that X is coming and that Y (Y can equal a new signing or promoted yut) wouldn't be in training anymore and he was to get back to working out the best tactics for that weekend.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:43 (thirteen years ago) link
What was the figure in Why England Lose... there is a 98% correlation between wages spent and league place, while fuck all correlation between transfer spending. Also helps that Barca can spend so much on wages when you get yr Xavi for free and not for £70m like he'd cost on the market.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah well, clubs should be in a perpetual slow-build-and-simultaneous-realisation loop - arsenal do that pretty well and don't tend to bully other clubs with their cash AS MUCH as some of the others, but they still wield it when they 'have to'
a good youth setup should be mandatory for every football club. it should be the lifeblood.
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:47 (thirteen years ago) link
and other cliches
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:48 (thirteen years ago) link
I like the idea of the 18 smaller Spanish clubs colluding to lose every single game against the big 2 as a means of protest. Even if that means no Osasuna 1-0 Real Madrid
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:51 (thirteen years ago) link
'I just really hope Chelsea win the CL asap and Roman subsequently says 'ok game over, hope u had fun', would be fitting'
You know, I'd kind of be happy with that too. What happens, happens.
― isn't house rubbish and Pete W mental (Pete W), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 13:54 (thirteen years ago) link
arsenal do that pretty well and don't tend to bully other clubs with their cash AS MUCH as some of the others, but they still wield it when they 'have to'
Can you give me... 1 example to back this up?
All clubs should have an academy and when in 10 years the Bundesliga is untouchable as the best league in the world making the most money and being watched by the most people winning the most trophies, everyone might sort their shit out. But probably not.
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:02 (thirteen years ago) link
Spending up to £10m oa time on Southampton schoolkids not really in the business plan of most clubs.
― Stevie T, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:05 (thirteen years ago) link
Barca wages aren't that insane.messi makes loads,but less than your tevez,terry,rooney etc. in epl afaik.xavi,iniesta a step down.puyol,pique another step down.busquets and valdes again,whatever.
Only reason they have insufficient competition is a) they're amazing, b) mou is no pellegrini,lol.
― À la recherche du temps Pardew (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:33 (thirteen years ago) link
messi is on £275k a week and is the highest earning footballer in the world
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:36 (thirteen years ago) link
competition is more than 1 other team
the top 2 have no competition at all, and none feasible
also lol
arsenal buy youngsters, yeah - it's still flashing the cash, although in mitigation these youngsters know they'll get a thorough football education and probably tell themselves with some truth that they're going for aesthetic/footballing reasons
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:38 (thirteen years ago) link
that said, you can get a thorough if less-heralded football education at any professional club
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:39 (thirteen years ago) link
I don't see what is bullying about the Theo transfer though? Southampton wanted (/needed - lol finances etc.) to sell, set a price and we were one of many clubs to do so?
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:40 (thirteen years ago) link
It's bullying - the fact they 'needed' to sell is indicative of a football culture where bullying is not just endemic but mandatory
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:43 (thirteen years ago) link
anyway I bet Nasri cost a packet
huh? its a sign of being badly run and getting relegated while still paying top level wages and building a stadium they couldn't afford
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:44 (thirteen years ago) link
messi is on £275k a week
woah. And low, low taxes to boot
Also, who or what is 'benjamin' and why isn't he/she/it posting here? Could be Carroll to darragh's Torres
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:46 (thirteen years ago) link
he/she/it is my best friend and is quite wary of messageboards so I wouldn't bank on it. will tell him about ILF though, he may approve. although do we really need another spurs fan?
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Hm, fair point.
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:48 (thirteen years ago) link
Is he Irish as well? Or a proper kosher fan?
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:49 (thirteen years ago) link
yeah he has refused :( but you still get his gchat wisdom now and then, he's got this thing about not commenting to the internet personally but is cool if I quote him
he's got irish blood yeah!
― acoleuthic, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:50 (thirteen years ago) link
me: i posted our conversation to the 'I Love Football' messageboard and now someone's requested you start posting there :D Benjamin: well I won'ti'm afraid me: hahai had thought so Benjamin: due to the 'no comment on the internet' policy me: ah well Benjamin: but feel free to upload my wisdom me: that will be no problem Benjamin: nowfor the real discussionlet's kick blacks out of football
a sad loss
― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, 2 February 2011 14:52 (thirteen years ago) link
hahahahahaha
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 15:03 (thirteen years ago) link
Obv figures are based on conjecture as cronaldo is widely reported as best paid footballer and afaik yaya toure,who didn't always get a game for barca,gets paid more than any of their players at city. Alves going the same way for same reason in summer.
Lj spanish football has only just became such a tiered system between top tier and rest.couple of years,hardly scotland yet.
― À la recherche du temps Pardew (jim in glasgow), Wednesday, 2 February 2011 16:47 (thirteen years ago) link
Does Carroll still have to live with Kevin Nolan?
― if there is a King Kenny, apparently he is huge into slapstick. (a hoy hoy), Friday, 4 February 2011 13:44 (thirteen years ago) link
Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.
― System, Thursday, 10 February 2011 00:01 (thirteen years ago) link
a new challenger appears...
any truth in the rumour jonjo shelvey posted a pic of his jonjo on twitter
― frogbsclovetofu (cozen), Thursday, 24 March 2011 20:55 (thirteen years ago) link
lol "a new challenger appears"...can hear the bad synth brass in my head
― Ask Nult What Your Country Can Do For You (Local Garda), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:04 (thirteen years ago) link
So glad Suarez started well.
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:29 (thirteen years ago) link
http://search.twitter.com/search?q=jonjo+shelvey
― frogbsclovetofu (cozen), Thursday, 24 March 2011 21:32 (thirteen years ago) link
MrJoebangles_: lol jonjo shelvey put a pic of his tallywacker on twitter... LAD
Carroll needs to sort it out obv.
― I am Newgod (a hoy hoy), Tuesday, 3 January 2012 11:36 (twelve years ago) link
Bah, doesn't matter. Skilful players are all very well, but it's hard to beat having a big, fearless, bone-headed guy to line up behind. You want to try it sometime.
― Ismael Klata, Tuesday, February 1, 2011 1:11 PM (1 year ago)
― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Saturday, 28 April 2012 20:06 (twelve years ago) link
how'd i miss this un
― diafiyhm (darraghmac), Saturday, 28 April 2012 20:16 (twelve years ago) link
big andy's first prem half-season was pure thrills and no snooty revanchism can ever take that away so ner imo
― r|t|c, Saturday, 28 April 2012 21:21 (twelve years ago) link
its the final sideswipe at a hoy hoy that makes it, imagining a counterfactual where wenger sold rvp and bought pogrebnyak
― Ms Tum-Bla-Wi-Tee (nakhchivan), Saturday, 28 April 2012 21:27 (twelve years ago) link
and the winner is... luis? idk really, both were p lol
― tell me more (a hoy hoy), Monday, 17 June 2013 07:46 (ten years ago) link
yeah, you called it
― Ismael Klata, Monday, 17 June 2013 08:26 (ten years ago) link
Coutinho/sturridge next pls
― should we bin tapping? (darraghmac), Monday, 17 June 2013 08:39 (ten years ago) link