Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

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There was a KLF/grebo connection in that Bill Drummond produced Zodiac Mindwarp, but otherwise it's conventionally off the mark...

― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:18 (twenty years ago) link

Actually, Celtic Frost were the jazz band. Except when they were dub metal. And anybody who ever heard "Crazy Horses" knows the Osmonds were one of the heaviest *metal* bands ever, except for "One Bad Apple," when they were Justin Timberlake. And why on earth would I care what morons in Williamsurg think, anyway? Except when I DJ there, I mean.

― chuck, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:22 (twenty years ago) link

crazy horses rule.. REVIVAL STARTS NOW?

― st tremaine, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:26 (twenty years ago) link

this is still my favorite chris ott website.

http://www.bigcworld.com/

― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:50 (twenty years ago) link

ohmigod

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:51 (twenty years ago) link

this one is pretty good too.

http://www.wens.com/airstaff/chris_ott.aspx

― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:54 (twenty years ago) link

actually, this is my favorite.

http://www.footbag.org/newmembers/profile?MemberID=40543

― scott seward, Wednesday, 24 September 2003 21:58 (twenty years ago) link

you are a genius after all

― David. (Cozen), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:00 (twenty years ago) link

Chuck, while it may be provocative and even enlightening to assign an usual genre classification to a band and then explain your reasoning, I think the point is that just throwing out a genre name considered incorrect by most readers will cast the critic's credibility in doubt (for those readers) - and with good reason.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:08 (twenty years ago) link

that or maybe it'll force them to actually think about music and how it sounds and works regardless of what the label's marketing dept says

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:09 (twenty years ago) link

Maybe, if it's truly an interesting choice, presented in an enlightening way. But I don't think most run-of-the-mill reviewers tossing off genre names, whether "right" or "wrong," inspire much deep thinking.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:16 (twenty years ago) link

This thread is missing only one thing: trife.

― Matt Helgeson (Matt Helgeson), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:20 (twenty years ago) link

most run-of-the-mill reviewers don't do anything right (it's what this whole thread's about)(ott's an extremely run-of-the-mill reviewer)(cf. 95% of music blogs)

― cinniblount (James Blount), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:30 (twenty years ago) link

Well good, we agree.

― Sam J. (samjeff), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:33 (twenty years ago) link

These are the best threads. This is the best bit: "Ott's comebacks are so breathtakingly LAME that...God...I'm overcome with this weird desire to field him some insults just so he won't look like such a nine-year old."

― Eyeball Kicks (Eyeball Kicks), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 22:34 (twenty years ago) link

And everyone wonders where the Onion came up with such an outlandish concept for that article last week.

― ham on rye (ham on rye), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:48 (twenty years ago) link

NOBODY wonders that!

― M Matos (M Matos), Wednesday, 24 September 2003 23:49 (twenty years ago) link

harriet wheeler shouldn't ever get a red sticker.

― keith (keithmcl), Thursday, 25 September 2003 00:57 (twenty years ago) link

a factual inaccuracy (or two) would be something like this...

Aussie buddy Tom Morgan of Smudge wrote most of this record ['Come on Feel the Lemonheads'], and though I'm sure he made some nice money on the royalties for "Into Your Arms", he couldn't have been too happy that a druggie pinup boy reaped all the career-extending rewards.

anyone with either an internet connection or the album itself could tell you that (a) morgan shares co-writing credit with evan dando on 8 out of 15 songs and gets full credit on none, which is not the same thing as writing "most of the record" and (b) morgan had nothing to do with writing "into your arms," that was by another aussie, robyn st. clare, though maybe all those aussie pop geniuses look alike.

frankly, i don't think it's that huge a deal, but then again my name does happen to be...

― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:07 (twenty years ago) link

maybe all those aussie pop geniuses look alike

it's true! we all look like shabby longhairs

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link

I find it genuinely odd that Chris seems to come up with such a wrong-headed position on so much music and yet he continues to engage with it - it's not just one or two albums or styles, it's everything. Is he just covering stuff like Missy Elliot and dance music because he's contracted to? What does he get out of it? (sorry Chris for speaking of you in 3rd person: what do you get out of it?)

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:30 (twenty years ago) link

Does Chris ever cover stuff like Missy or dance music though? I think he's just wrongheaded about it on message boards. ;)

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:08 (twenty years ago) link

This is really sad, guys. ;'(

― John 2, Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:22 (twenty years ago) link

i tend to think that lots of the poking holes in chris otts facts is just playing into his game which is *like it even matters*. (these particular facts, not facts in general, obv.) but nonetheless would like to point out that chris didn't call KLF "grebo" per. se but rather said that the term grebo had been COINED to cover bands including KLF. which is to say that he attributed the "grebo" classification to OTHERS thus rendering it not a discussion of impressions but of historical fact (to the extent an argument over "grebo" is anything).

― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:38 (twenty years ago) link

I think alex (who did initiated the fact checking) noted it was nitpicking

― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:41 (twenty years ago) link

i think i too noted it was nitpicking, while also noting that i can avoid doing it no more than heat seeking missile can avoid seeking heat.

also, i try not to miss any chance to enter tom morgan and robyn st. clare into the discussion.

― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link

how can you mention those two and not nic dalton?

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link

i wanted to mention nic, i swear to god, he just wasn't pertinent to that particular post!!! (i do try to be artful about these things!) but he wrote songs with evan too! and he wrote songs with tom too! and the new deezleteens 7-inch includes an unprecedented simultaneous cover of *both* sides of the replacements' first 7-inch! and there is no chance whatsoever that you will be coming across either of those 7-inches in your local used bin anytime soon!

― fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:09 (twenty years ago) link

nice!

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:26 (twenty years ago) link

Who is Chris Ott?

― Jester, Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:35 (twenty years ago) link

this thread is a trip. Was surprised to see Luna's "City Kitty" called monotonous b/c it's one of my fave songs ever, ever..

I'm enjoying the article, not for any one album critique in particular but because it gives me a rather neat snapshot of a particular span of time, from when I first discovered, uh, alternative via MTV's 120 Minutes and bought a couple of the records named (a Lush album, actually just found my old cassette of "Happy Days" by Catherine Wheel, "Honey's Dead," "Psalm 69," Sugar, Belly, etc.).. and then saw nearly all the rest of them either show up at my college radio station & get trashed mercilessly by the staff, or already on the shelves of the radio station, never getting airplay.

Thing is I no longer fret so much about what kinda music is cool & actually rebought a couple of albums I'd ditched because, you know, I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles, and I wish I could find my tape of "Harmacy" because "Beauty of the Ride" is another all-time fave of mine.

And who sells "Last Splash"? It never gets old! Nobody sells that! :)

― daria g (daria g), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:53 (twenty years ago) link

i had a copy of 'last splash' and gave it away. although i think 'title tk' is a work of genius, so take that for what it's worth. as for the article itself, i'm with Tim in that i'd rather see an article about rediscovered gems rather than this joyless exercise in trashing albums that the general public didn't really like in the first place. why would i be interested in the history of The Nixons if i will never buy one of their albums, and neither will most of my friends?

― Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

"Does Chris ever cover stuff like Missy or dance music though? I think he's just wrongheaded about it on message boards. ;)"

Well as I recall he did that Fischerspooner review and made that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse.

― Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 September 2003 06:36 (twenty years ago) link

While this is kind of off topic now, I think Royal Trux's Thank You, Shudder to Think's 50,000 B.C. and Superdrag's Regretfully Yours were slighted by that article and somehow omitted from their rightful place in the Top 50.

― Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Thursday, 25 September 2003 06:52 (twenty years ago) link

more pics of Mrs Beckham pls

― dave q, Thursday, 25 September 2003 09:28 (twenty years ago) link

I am not one to refuse Mr. Q:

http://www.ad.nl/images/posh.jpg

― Nicolars (Nicole), Thursday, 25 September 2003 11:32 (twenty years ago) link

Dave Q gets what he wants in a few words! Chris Ott doesn't get what he wants after many! See, that's how to be confrontational *and* loved.

I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles

Daria G just became Dan's and my closest friend.

― Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:00 (twenty years ago) link

No kidding! I was about to be all "DARIA WILL U FAEK MARI ME CUZ IM ALREDDY MARIED AND MY WIFE WOOD KILL ME LOL OMG"

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:14 (twenty years ago) link

Well as I recall he did that Fischerspooner review and made that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse.

Tim, yeah, as soon as I typed that I did think, 'oh, Fischerspooner.'

― scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

that the term grebo had been COINED to cover bands including KLF.

...which is still wrong.

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:26 (twenty years ago) link

grebo

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:31 (twenty years ago) link

(haha they list KLF as a grebo band sorry Alex)

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:32 (twenty years ago) link

YIKES I'M NOT A GOTH I'M GREBO LOOK AT THESE BANDS!!!!!!!

― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link

Clearly, Chris Ott hasn't cornered the market on "being wrong."

― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:34 (twenty years ago) link

grebo is the stupidest genre name since camden lurch

― the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:41 (twenty years ago) link

"The home of a typical Grebo comunity"?

― s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 25 September 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link

"Well as I recall he...madee that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse."

I can't help but smile...

― johnypants, Thursday, 25 September 2003 13:45 (twenty years ago) link

i'm not gonna read all this shit

― mcwop23, Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link

i already did. :(

― Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:33 (twenty years ago) link

well, i just did!
xpost

UPDATE: DAMN YOU JORDAN!!!! NOBODY steals my lame replies!

― Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:51 (twenty years ago) link

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