Search & Destroy: Sun Ra

''in the credits to the ra movie (remake: Queen of the Damned) is the name WILLIAM DHALGREN: this has always intrigued me''

Why?

THESE records shop has a rack fully devoted to Ra (one of the guys who runs it absolutely worships him). That's where i got that CD from. Google it, they run a mail order service.

In a similar vein, I recently got "Black Myth/Out in Space" - "Out In Space" being another electronic maelstrom, this time lasting almost 38 minutes! Believe me, not a CD for the faint-hearted!

I have to confess however that I'm not a tremendous fan of his so- called "great" albums from the mid-60's: "Magic City", "Heliocentric Worlds", "Atlantis". I think these albums are remarkable but I don't find myself listening to them very often - they're more to be admired than loved. Certainly, if you're looking for jazz don't look at the "Heliocentric Worlds" albums - these are probably the least "jazz" jazz albums I've ever heard, closer in fact to Varese or even Boulez.

I have to confess however that I'm not a tremendous fan of his so- called "great" albums from the mid-60's: "Magic City", "Heliocentric Worlds", "Atlantis". . . . Certainly, if you're looking for jazz don't look at the "Heliocentric Worlds" albums - these are probably the least "jazz" jazz albums I've ever heard, closer in fact to Varese or even Boulez.

I don't really like those albums either. (I have only heard one of Heliocentric volumes, but I own the other volume and the other two titles mentioned.) Have you heard "Other Planes of There"? The title track covers somewhat similar material to "Heliocentric Worlds" but is much warmer and less rigid sounding. I don't mind jazz that doesn't sound much like jazz, per se, but I share your lack of enthusiasm for these albums.

I enjoyed 'Exotic Forest'. A constant bassline but lovely 'middle eastern' blowing (cliche alert!) and rolling percussion. And whenever sun ra plays on that piano (he sounds like a classical pianist who had burnt his hands but was still able to play) the music would change direction.

Definetely need to listen more. There's much more but i need to go to sleep.

anyway, will get some more recs soon...

Generally when I read that something sounds "middle eastern" in a published review, I find that it either sounds only very vaguely middle eastern or it doesn't sound middle eastern at all. (For instance "Circe" from "When Sun Comes Out" doesn't sound like anything a middle eastern singer would do, though the liner notes describe it that way.)

I'll try to track some of this stuff down (yet some more for the record pile but I need to visit the 'world music' section at tower anyway).

I don't care much for Flamenco singing, which sounds to me like degenerate Arabic singing (not that I am saying it really is, but to my Arabicized ears, it kind of sounds that way); but I do like the guitar. Where I take salsa classes, there is also a Flamenco dance class. The teacher's husband is a guitarist who plays for the class. When I first heard him playing I was amazed by how good he is. I did kind of a double take, like, wow, this guy is actually really good, not just the teacher's husband who happens to play a little guitar or something. In fact, do you know much about Flamenco guitar, because that's something I'd be interested in hearing recommendations for? (I probably should get off my butt and be daring and go to a little bar at the edge of what used to be the barrio, where this guitarist sometimes accompanies his wife, etc.)

yeah...i've looked into flamenco guitarists but I can't remember any names (i think there was a webpage somewhere, I suppose I feel a thread coming).

If not, could somebody hurry up and do it?

there WAS a bootleg about a year ago but i was assured this was official. i don't really know what to believe with rough trade cos it all depends who you speak to. try the scot with the beard. i assume you went to the covent garden one with the tramps and the cheese and the skaters and whatnot

if all fails i'll dub it 4 u

yes, I went to the covent garden shop.

muhaha in that case i will get a another copy and flog it on eBay

High points from "Live at the Wonder Inn": a performance of "Angels and Demons at Play" and "How High the Moon." The latter, of course, is just the sort of "material in a traditional jazz vein" I was talking about, but I like it nevertheless. I think I like this song now. I notice that during much of "Spontaneous Simplicity," someone is playing a clave rhythm. I have heard something close to the clave rhythm before in Sun Ra songs, but I don't think I've ever heard it played this overtly.

The sound on "The Majestic Session" is a little more problematic. When the music gets loud and all musicians are playing simultaneously, the distortion is pretty bad. It's a pity, since the energy is definitely there. I like Sun Ra's solo at the beginning of "Velvet," though it's hard to make it out. I haven't quite sorted through the four pieces titled "Majestic" 1-4. I think my favorite is the 4th.

I like the CD as a package (aside from the nasty adhesive which doesn't want to come off). The liner notes are good, and there are some very cool photos from the Wonder Inn. (For a more adequate review, check the one somebody who knows a lot mroe than I do posted on amazon.com.)

how about all of the supposedly 200-odd el-saturn lps out there that aren't re-issued ? anybody got some saturn vinyl they'd like to mention ? ok, recommending these odd small-run bootleg type lps would be pointless, but if everyone here had one real el-saturn piece of vinyl, it might be a different one from anyone else's here, hopefully

200+ privately issued lps -- some very limited, issued casually at gigs from the '60s to the '80s -- let's hear about the ones that haven't made it to the re-issue process and maybe may never re-appear -- made it into anyone's collection ?

how about it ? not s/d, more a special swap meet on saturn ?
some el-saturn record that you and possibly you alone might be able to say something about ..

I'm not a collector of rarities. There is too much that is easily available which I haven't gotten to (not just for Sun Ra, but in general).

Space is the place, what else?

Singles is an invaluable reference.

Solo Piano (Vol. II) (a.k.a. St. Louis Blues) is a revelation.

Presumably it's http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&uid=11:11:51|AM&sql=Bcnez97u7krat

'Strange Strings' is relentless acoustic noise, it does not let up. It's what I was hoping 'Atlantis' would sound like.

'Secrets of the Sun' is probably my favorite of the early stuff, where they're still caught between big band traditional playing and free form.

I remember hearing a version of "Astro Black" (presumably from the album of the same name) that sounded better, but this was back when I was a teenager, and my recollection is pretty vague after 20 or so years of not hearing it since.

ah that makes (a little) more sense, thanks

however many extra box sets they got sold out in minutes, I looked 45 minutes after the email and they were gone

https://sunrastrut.bandcamp.com/album/swirling

this is fabulous!

Does anyone know anything about this book? http://artyardrecords.co.uk/its-after-the-end-of-the-world-by-gerald-jenkins/

sweet new single with 2 unreleased tracks

https://sunrastrut.bandcamp.com/album/sun-ra-quartet-featuring-john-gilmore-the-sky-is-a-sea-of-darkness-when-there-is-no-sun-to-light-the-way

My Egypt 1971 CD set finally showed up this week, it’s great so far. Really digging the weirdo synth stuff at the end of the first disc.

I didn't realize Marshall Allen still lives in the Sun Ra house in Germantown!

https://whyy.org/articles/jazz-legend-after-house-partially-collapses-gets-help-from-philanthropist-neighbors/

The fact that he still lives is already notable.

Unexpected Sun Ra update:

They're selling a 3CD complete album set in Edinburgh Woollen Mill for £4.99

Super-Sonic Jazz (Saturn)
Jazz by Sun Ra (Transition)
Jazz in Silhouette (Saturn)

Their James Pringle cardigans are nothing to sniff at either

Visiting Paris, seeing them Sunday night!

Sun Ra's house now a Philadelphia historic landmark
https://www.phillyvoice.com/sun-ra-house-philadelphia-historic-landmark-designation-germantown-arkestra/

Marshall Allen is still incredible at nearly 100. See them if you can!

Saw them open for Parquet Courts in 2018 - between both acts, it was one of the best shows I've ever seen.

"Sleeping Beauty" is one of the greatest compositions in any genre ever.

Sun Ra's Full Lecture & Reading List From His 1971 UC Berkeley Course, "The Black Man in the Cosmos" (Open Culture) : https://t.co/IdxXCyF2MS pic.twitter.com/nDKC3XWth2

— reaktorplayer (@reaktorplayer) July 29, 2022

Does anybody remember what year Sun Ra played Brixton Academy in the early to mid 80s. I thought I would find it with a simple google search but not finding a gigography that stretches back that far. Seeing listings for Academy cutting out in the late 80s.
Have been hoping i might be able to find out what he/they were playing. Should still be in a period where they were playing some really great space funk but also when he was doing gigs based in a more classic jazz style. I have some recordings from the time of the latter but do think I prefer the former.

according to setlist.fm he played there on 15 June 1984.

this Facebook post also refers to it.

this ad for it suggests the set style -- GLC always there w/the funk!:

Sun Ra headlines 3 days of jazz, funk, Latin, African and more... NME, 26 May 1984. #NME #MyLifeInTheUKMusicPress #1984 pic.twitter.com/cCeiZHfjRr

— nothingelseon (@nothingelseon) December 11, 2019

He played The Venue in Victoria Street (near Victoria Station) in 1982 and again in 1983, and the Fridge (Brixton) in 1985 -- with yrs truly reviewing lol (do not read if you hate me/want to post this on worst-music-writing-of-all-time thread etc)

Live! Sun Ra! The Chills! Three Johns! NME, 23 November 1985. #NME #MyLifeInTheUKMusicPress #1985 pic.twitter.com/eGILcKEka3

— nothingelseon (@nothingelseon) July 28, 2020

(@nothingelseon is a good resource for nme and mm ads, there's another guy who does pages from sounds)

ok thanks
Seems like it must have been a good one.

@dubdobdee wuz there: in the Fridge w @SunRaUniverse : (finding chaos under the sleek hood of taste &) "They pretend to indiscipline...they work for their fun here...it's the way it has to be." https://t.co/1HOByFZe0A

— Don Allred (@0wlred) August 27, 2022

Great review Mark! That Chills review was a stinker tho

I'm hoping that someone somewhere might have the audio of that night in June 84 cos I don't think I've seen it in the time I've been torrenting. Which is like 16 years.
Have heard some of his more classic jazz sets from the time which are pretty good and wondered to what extent a particular lineup of the band changed the sound o fa tune from 30 years or more earlier. Assuming that it was largely the same lineups playing the deep space funk and these standards etc anyway. Like if experience playing other musics put new slants on interpretation etc.
Do prefer the deep space funk but the standards and other older songs were done pretty well anyway.

I think I was still thinking that he was a pretty out free jazz player at the time so may have shaped my hearing of the set if he didn't get weirdly out. But have listened a lot more widely since. I think I enjoyed the set but probably didn't think it was quite up to like Say or the noisier parts of live at Montreux or something. So would love to get to listen back

https://www.library.upenn.edu/events/kislak-stacks/collecting-sun-ra

Zoom event tomorrow (Oct. 20 noon) with John Szwed talking about assembling an archive of Sun Ra recordings.

Thanks for sharing!

Marshall Allen interview - 100 years young this year!

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2024/feb/02/a-man-cannot-learn-without-discipline-jazz-guru-marshall-allen-on-life-with-sun-ra-and-turning-100