Cardiacs: Classic or Dud?

yo
post the link to the fb page

righto!

There's also this Tim Smith benefit happening on May 7th in Portsmouth, UK :

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=192378400798658

Anyone got "The Rising Of The Lights" then? My copy turned up today. It's good! I wish I hadn't downloaded a load of live bootlegs back in '09 though, as it means I've lost some of the novelty of hearing these songs "fresh". Given that some of these tracks date back to when Bill was still in Cardiacs/Sea Nymphs, it's probably the closest we're going to get to new Cardiacs material for a while.

There's new North Sea Radio Orchestra imminent also.

New NSRO is the best yet!

gettin into Tim Smith's solo album, it's pretty damn great!! especially the last track.

^^^^I need to get this in its entirety, the songs on Youtube are fucking amazing

Speaking of which, I have a gift for you all, if you haven't heard it before. I would give this song 100 out of 100 and a big kiss. I wish there were entire schools of music based around exploring the mysteries of its method, rather than just William D Drake and Craig Fortnam and a few others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBdJDG0abUY

now if that don't stop yr day where it stands...

Kavus responded to a thread on a different board in which someone asked if Timmy's condition had improved:

Same as it has been for a few years, sadly. No signs of improvement but, heroically, he is very content and at peace with himself.

I cannot re-state enough that his mind is very much his own and as it has always been. He just no longer has the use of a body that will do any of the things you and I take for granted.

He is regularly around music and friends which is where he has always been the most happy.

As remarkable and inspiring a man as Tim was before the tragic events of 2008 so he is proving to be afterwards too.

His optimism, light and beautiful energy are still dazzling.

Tim receives many letters and testimonials from fans and admirers. I always pass on well wishes and love from everyone when we see each other.

Ironically, or perhaps as a result of his tragic accident (everyone loves a story, I suppose) interest in Cardiacs' music is at an all time high.

Cardiacs get played fairly regularly on BBC 6Music, many very well written pieces have been published and there has been a swathe of incredible cover versions appearing.

After years of being ignored, treated with derision and mocked it seems like the wider world is finally starting to realise what a musical visionary Tim really is.

To be fair, the last couple of years the band was active we did notice a massive sea change in concert attendances, interest and critical reception (even after the damning and cruel treatment they meted out in the 90's, the NME were referring to us as 'indie legends' which made Tim laugh), so who knows what would have happened had things carried on.

It's not worth thinking about though, it is what it is. Dwelling on stuff like that is the road to madness....

(someone asked if he ever considered doing a Cardiacs tribute tour)

Actually this and similar-ish plans have been suggested by a few people over the last four years or so.

One idea that we actually seriously looked into was a big gig with all of the last version of the band plus Jon Poole on second guitar, bringing on special guest singers from friends/fans for one or two songs including Mike Patton, Damon Albarn plus a load of the usual suspects closer to home (Claire Lemon, Sharron Fortnam, Ginger, Mike Vennart etc) Realistically this just proved to be a MASSIVE headache. We hashed over details for weeks, even reserved a night at the Royal Festival Hall, planned on showing films/ videos and having bands in the foyer etc. etc.

The logistics were just too much for folks like us. It would have been a massive undertaking that we just did not have the funding or resources to properly undertake. Given that the thing was meant as a fundraiser we realised that the whole event would cost far more than it could really raise. Let's remember: Tim and Cardiacs, actual visionary and the blazing music aside, are still very much a cult thing.

That's how we happened upon the idea of the tribute album. Again, that almost broke the core 'team' of Bic, Jo Spratley, me and Mark Cawthra. It was far, far more work and temper-fraying stress than we had expected. And thank God it was because the results turned out wonderfully and we managed to raise a fairly substantial sum for Tim from the proceeds.

So in terms of touring a 'version' of Cardiacs I don't think it would be right for a number of reasons. Mainly that Cardiacs really is all about Tim. The band has always consisted of his closest friends, people who 'get' and share his vision and obviously musically capable but, nonetheless, when you're onstage performing that stuff, whether he'd admit it or not, HE is the star of the show. It's his vision. His music.

It's not only the 'I'm not worthy' thing. I'm not going to be falsely modest, I felt very worthy being guitarist in the band and felt it was completely right to join. I also feel completely at home fronting Knifeworld, which is my music, but to take on that role, that persona...I couldn't do it. Nor could I try to shoehorn my own vibe into it. I know something like that can work with, say, The Magic Band, but as much as I love the music of Captain Beefheart/ Don Van Vliet, and I mean this most sincerely, he ain't no Tim Smith!

I think, no matter how good it was, it would always be a second rate version.
There's something that would be too difficult for me, and I suspect many of the band, emotionally about doing it too. Cardiacs was so much more than a band. For most of my adult life it, and the people in the wider circle around it, had been a family and a way of life..Hell, a way of BEING. It's been really hard just trying to move on and try to piece together a 'career' with Tim being inactive. Revisiting that without him may well break my heart.

Realistically, I just don't think the funding is available to expect a potential touring band to put aside six months of their lives to get this stuff up to snuff and tour it. And believe me, having done that for a few years this is as long as it takes, and that was with the advantage of having Alphabet HQ to live/record/rehearse and work in, which we no longer have. Funnily enough, we all have day jobs/ other groups/ families/ rent/ mortgages etc. There never was any money around Cardiacs. It really all was done for love.

Regarding the reissue of the albums:

Believe me, EVERYONE in and around the band would dearly love this to happen. I'm sure it will eventually but having spent a great deal of time going through the Dickensian legal labyrinth in which Alphabet is tied up I have walked away, as many others have, a weakened man. It will happen, it HAS to but please let me state that it's not us sitting on our hands, doing nothing that is preventing it.

In the meantime I can say that there will be a Songbook 2 of the tribute album. I have my hands completely tied up with recording the new Knifeworld album, rehearsing with Guapo, and a special exciting secret release for the label (Believers Roast) but once I have a shred of spare time the cogs will start to turn on this. We can promise some very interesting contributors!

just thought I'd pass it along!

Dominique hinted at a special secret something in this ballpark too, on top of his own brilliant 365 songs project.

It'd be sad if LSD was never released. But yeah, if OceanLandWorld, Mr And Mrs Smith etc all get a proper rerelease alongside the existing albums, that'd be just as good. I'd buy them all on vinyl and purchase a record player, for fuck's sake.

Would also like to contribute to the next songbook. I could do a poetic contribution to the liner notes! Ah, who knows.

I asked about LSD but he hasn't responded. My gut feeling is, Tim's parts were unfinished and he may never be well enough to do them. Either way I think everyone was surprised by how well the tribute album sold so I'd think that LSD would do quite well/raise a lot of cash should it ever see the light of day. If nothing else it's good to know he's taken care of !

Yikes! That all-star gig sounds totally wrong-headed. Patton and Albarn have no business being onstage with Cardiacs for starters. The others mean well but yeah, what's the point? All those bands that are supposed to sound like Cardiacs never do. Okay, like one Mr Bungle song and some bits of the Silver Ginger 5 album, which is the best Cardiacs related ephemera out there in my opinion. The rest eg. a lot of the ones on the tribute album sound a lot more like the Sea Nymphs than Cardiacs. Cardiacs are a fast, heavy, precise prog band with everything being hit as hard as possible, barked lead vocals and backing vocals shouted out in unison. Trippy keyboards, wispy atonal female backing vocals, echoey plucked strings etc. Yeah it's there in about 5% of their stuff but it's not what made them great.

I think it would be neat as a one-off show. I agree that Albarn isn't really in the same league (Patton I could kinda buy) but it could raise some cash for Tim and I think it would be a neat thing for the fans regardless. I do keep looking for Cardiacs-inspired stuff (there's even a thread for it) but as you say there's nothing really like them. Maybe albums like VDGG's Godbluff or say Magma's Wurdah Itah have the same heavy/complex vibes but nothing recent that I've found matches up to what Tim does.

Oh yeah, anything that Kavus is involved in (like Knifeworld or Monsoon Bassoon) is really a must have for the average Cardiac fan

Pawn Hearts is the most Cardiacsy VDGG album

Once turned down the opportunity to buy Black Leather Mojo in an HMV. Fucking idiot.

I think it's the most expensive single CD I ever bought. It was $35 as a Japanese import and that was HALF PRICE! From HMV too actually.

I would love a deluxe re-issue of HEAVEN BORN AND EVER BRIGHT, appended with lots of needless filigree, please.

that's the one Cardiacs album I would love to see remastered. it's a really trebly album and desperately needs some low end!

Wot, no revive for the Sing To God vinyl reissue? For shame!

Been pleasantly surprised by the number decent reviews this has been getting on the music blogs, although part of me does wonder where all this positive coverage was when the band were still functioning.

One thing the reviews haven't mentioned is what the mastering is like. The CD version suffered from serious mid-nineties brickwalling (although not as bad as HB&EB), so I'll be curious to hear if this new release "fixes" any of it.

have already given the DiS reviewer a bit of shit (in a nice way) for only giving it 9/10 - but his and I'd imagine many reviewers' perspectives are going to be unversed - a veritable pondsworth of neophytes, innocently unaware of what is to be unleashed, and then word-strung, agog and running dangerously low on plausible 'x on speed!' canards amidst and after the immersion

his review conveyed the giddy jerk of Cardiacs introduction quite well, I thought

anyway, my postman is being SLOW, either that or ABC is

Has anyone actually managed to pre-order this?

yeah, by ordering on the morning it was released, m8

It looks like I could have pre-ordered it on the 7th but it's actually going on sale on the 14th. As it's limited to 200 copies I'll just give up hope of getting a copy right now.

aw

my CD copy is currently out on loan, in fact - need to make sure I get that back at some point

spent more on this album than on all other recorded music combined over the last maybe 2 or 3 years? but then it is the greatest album ever so

Rehearsal version of An Ant has randomly popped up. Maybe my least liked early Cardiacs tune, I never really found Jim cute, before this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0yTGM4D1io

^i liked this

ANYWAY, is this a good idea?

fuck it, at some point I'll do a Cardiacs & Affiliated ballot poll and I don't care how many of you vote

― Ƹ༑Ʒ (imago), Friday, October 17, 2014 1:24 AM (0 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

coz, like, XTC are the second greatest English pop band of all time and their poll has me itching for the grand show

How about a boring normal poll of the live albums? Mostly proposing this cos I have a couple of opinions on it.

we can do that as well :)

special garage vs mares nest vs rude bootleg vs um some other bootleg? or am i missing one

Cardiacs Live. Plus discussion of bootlegs, radio bits etc

this is where I get all weepy about the single bootlegged live recording of Dream Dress that's on Youtube, right

Certainly you are welcome to do so. I guess we could just have that discussion here but it would lack the drama & focus of a poll thread.

But yeah, I'd vote in a big poll thing to make up numbers. Never actually done that before - couple of times I started to then after 15 mins I was giving it "fuck lists".

the trouble with a live albums poll is that I wouldn't know whether to vote for the Garage Concerts or Mares Nest - there are overwhelming ideological reasons to vote for either - and would collapse in a mess of glorious indecision

HOWEVER

a ballot poll could have the following sections:

a) Studio albums of Cardiacs & anything Tim Smith has been a principal songwriter in (Sea Nymphs, Mr & Mrs..., Spratleys Japs)
b) Studio tracks of Cardiacs & anything ditto
c) Live albums (name your favourite only)
d) Studio albums of the Cardiacs extended family (define as you like)
e) Studio tracks of the Cardiacs extended family

to be unveiled in the order a-c-d-e-b

and yeah I mostly subscribe to 'fuck lists' but the opportunity to really engage with Autechre and XTC in the last few weeks has been gladly taken tbh - who knows whom this exercise might inspire!

No "favourite Cardiac" then?

we can't let Jim even in with a chance of winning so no

I think (a) should be anything with the Cardiacs name on it and Spratleys etc go under (e) or (d). Not sure you'd need both (d) and (e) actually. Just (e) would be good.

Maybe. But then Spratleys, Sea Nymphs would have the unfair advantage of Tim Smith's songwriting! There's a grey area between Cardiacs-except-in-name and stuff that's completely different. Spratleys is definitely the one I'd most keenly try to argue under the Cardiacs banner, Oceanlandworld as well come to think of it. Some of the songs on those two albums are as brilliant as anything he's done, and (almost) as Cardiacsy

You're probably right that d) is unnecessary though, much as I'd like to proselytise the NSRO at enormous length

You can still do that though.

Also feels like there needs to be space for the radio sessions and bootlegs...they are in the canon. Maybe just add that to the live albums portion?

Yeah, that seems fair.

Oceanlandworld....ah man. It's such an astonishing record. Nobody's bloody heard it. It's completely amazing. It both anticipates and betters all of Britpop, too - This Grounds Town contains all of Blur and then some

(and it's, like, one of the album's comparatively weaker tracks)

See if anyone else weighs in on this after dawn breaks.

that sea nymphs peel session is pretty essential

Juts piping up to say bring it on! :)

Must fix those juts, come to think of it.

I've been listening to The Sea Nymphs as I have been commuting this week and it never ceases to delight and amaze, I'd love for some learned person to recommend me some related Classical music (other than the obv).

don't think anyone has pushed the Satie paradigm in such interesting directions other than Smith and Drake tbh, but I too would be delighted to hear of a counterexample

I mean, Chilly Gonzalez kinda starts from the same musical base but heads in an altogether far more mundane direction, and sometimes does rubbish raps over it too lol

Stars in Battledress, maybe?