Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

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a factual inaccuracy (or two) would be something like this...

Aussie buddy Tom Morgan of Smudge wrote most of this record ['Come on Feel the Lemonheads'], and though I'm sure he made some nice money on the royalties for "Into Your Arms", he couldn't have been too happy that a druggie pinup boy reaped all the career-extending rewards.

anyone with either an internet connection or the album itself could tell you that (a) morgan shares co-writing credit with evan dando on 8 out of 15 songs and gets full credit on none, which is not the same thing as writing "most of the record" and (b) morgan had nothing to do with writing "into your arms," that was by another aussie, robyn st. clare, though maybe all those aussie pop geniuses look alike.

frankly, i don't think it's that huge a deal, but then again my name does happen to be...

fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:07 (twenty years ago) link

maybe all those aussie pop geniuses look alike

it's true! we all look like shabby longhairs

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:19 (twenty years ago) link

I find it genuinely odd that Chris seems to come up with such a wrong-headed position on so much music and yet he continues to engage with it - it's not just one or two albums or styles, it's everything. Is he just covering stuff like Missy Elliot and dance music because he's contracted to? What does he get out of it? (sorry Chris for speaking of you in 3rd person: what do you get out of it?)

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 September 2003 01:30 (twenty years ago) link

Does Chris ever cover stuff like Missy or dance music though? I think he's just wrongheaded about it on message boards. ;)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:08 (twenty years ago) link

This is really sad, guys. ;'(

John 2, Thursday, 25 September 2003 02:22 (twenty years ago) link

i tend to think that lots of the poking holes in chris otts facts is just playing into his game which is *like it even matters*. (these particular facts, not facts in general, obv.) but nonetheless would like to point out that chris didn't call KLF "grebo" per. se but rather said that the term grebo had been COINED to cover bands including KLF. which is to say that he attributed the "grebo" classification to OTHERS thus rendering it not a discussion of impressions but of historical fact (to the extent an argument over "grebo" is anything).

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:38 (twenty years ago) link

I think alex (who did initiated the fact checking) noted it was nitpicking

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:41 (twenty years ago) link

i think i too noted it was nitpicking, while also noting that i can avoid doing it no more than heat seeking missile can avoid seeking heat.

also, i try not to miss any chance to enter tom morgan and robyn st. clare into the discussion.

fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link

how can you mention those two and not nic dalton?

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 03:57 (twenty years ago) link

i wanted to mention nic, i swear to god, he just wasn't pertinent to that particular post!!! (i do try to be artful about these things!) but he wrote songs with evan too! and he wrote songs with tom too! and the new deezleteens 7-inch includes an unprecedented simultaneous cover of *both* sides of the replacements' first 7-inch! and there is no chance whatsoever that you will be coming across either of those 7-inches in your local used bin anytime soon!

fact checking cuz, Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:09 (twenty years ago) link

nice!

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:26 (twenty years ago) link

Who is Chris Ott?

Jester, Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:35 (twenty years ago) link

this thread is a trip. Was surprised to see Luna's "City Kitty" called monotonous b/c it's one of my fave songs ever, ever..

I'm enjoying the article, not for any one album critique in particular but because it gives me a rather neat snapshot of a particular span of time, from when I first discovered, uh, alternative via MTV's 120 Minutes and bought a couple of the records named (a Lush album, actually just found my old cassette of "Happy Days" by Catherine Wheel, "Honey's Dead," "Psalm 69," Sugar, Belly, etc.).. and then saw nearly all the rest of them either show up at my college radio station & get trashed mercilessly by the staff, or already on the shelves of the radio station, never getting airplay.

Thing is I no longer fret so much about what kinda music is cool & actually rebought a couple of albums I'd ditched because, you know, I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles, and I wish I could find my tape of "Harmacy" because "Beauty of the Ride" is another all-time fave of mine.

And who sells "Last Splash"? It never gets old! Nobody sells that! :)

daria g (daria g), Thursday, 25 September 2003 04:53 (twenty years ago) link

i had a copy of 'last splash' and gave it away. although i think 'title tk' is a work of genius, so take that for what it's worth. as for the article itself, i'm with Tim in that i'd rather see an article about rediscovered gems rather than this joyless exercise in trashing albums that the general public didn't really like in the first place. why would i be interested in the history of The Nixons if i will never buy one of their albums, and neither will most of my friends?

Dave M. (rotten03), Thursday, 25 September 2003 05:08 (twenty years ago) link

"Does Chris ever cover stuff like Missy or dance music though? I think he's just wrongheaded about it on message boards. ;)"

Well as I recall he did that Fischerspooner review and made that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse.

Tim Finney (Tim Finney), Thursday, 25 September 2003 06:36 (twenty years ago) link

While this is kind of off topic now, I think Royal Trux's Thank You, Shudder to Think's 50,000 B.C. and Superdrag's Regretfully Yours were slighted by that article and somehow omitted from their rightful place in the Top 50.

Bruce Urquhart (Bruce Urquhart), Thursday, 25 September 2003 06:52 (twenty years ago) link

more pics of Mrs Beckham pls

dave q, Thursday, 25 September 2003 09:28 (twenty years ago) link

I am not one to refuse Mr. Q:

http://www.ad.nl/images/posh.jpg

Nicolars (Nicole), Thursday, 25 September 2003 11:32 (twenty years ago) link

Dave Q gets what he wants in a few words! Chris Ott doesn't get what he wants after many! See, that's how to be confrontational *and* loved.

I LIKE Ministry & recently discovered how Depeche Mode are utter genius (and did plenty of brilliant songs well after 1990) & Lush & Belly have some great singles

Daria G just became Dan's and my closest friend.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:00 (twenty years ago) link

No kidding! I was about to be all "DARIA WILL U FAEK MARI ME CUZ IM ALREDDY MARIED AND MY WIFE WOOD KILL ME LOL OMG"

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:14 (twenty years ago) link

Well as I recall he did that Fischerspooner review and made that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse.

Tim, yeah, as soon as I typed that I did think, 'oh, Fischerspooner.'

scott pl. (scott pl.), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:18 (twenty years ago) link

that the term grebo had been COINED to cover bands including KLF.


...which is still wrong.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:26 (twenty years ago) link

grebo

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:31 (twenty years ago) link

(haha they list KLF as a grebo band sorry Alex)

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:32 (twenty years ago) link

YIKES I'M NOT A GOTH I'M GREBO LOOK AT THESE BANDS!!!!!!!

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:33 (twenty years ago) link

Clearly, Chris Ott hasn't cornered the market on "being wrong."

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:34 (twenty years ago) link

grebo is the stupidest genre name since camden lurch

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 25 September 2003 12:41 (twenty years ago) link

"The home of a typical Grebo comunity"?

s1utsky (slutsky), Thursday, 25 September 2003 13:01 (twenty years ago) link

"Well as I recall he...madee that astonishing observation wrt Royksopp and microhouse."

I can't help but smile...

johnypants, Thursday, 25 September 2003 13:45 (twenty years ago) link

i'm not gonna read all this shit

mcwop23, Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:27 (twenty years ago) link

i already did. :(

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:33 (twenty years ago) link

well, i just did!
xpost

UPDATE: DAMN YOU JORDAN!!!! NOBODY steals my lame replies!

Francis Watlington (Francis Watlington), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:51 (twenty years ago) link

no, i must be the one to kill the thread!

(or else i'll start thinking i'm losing my touch)

Jordan (Jordan), Thursday, 25 September 2003 14:56 (twenty years ago) link

This thread won't die so easily.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 16:12 (twenty years ago) link

I love the pitchfork and Chris Ott is so hot and i hate all you fuckers who diss them but shot all the people who like them!!

Brooke Hardy, Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:04 (twenty years ago) link

You shot all the people who like Pitchfork? An odd way of showing your support and appreciation, that.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:08 (twenty years ago) link

it's a joke alex

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:13 (twenty years ago) link

I'm aware of that.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, 25 September 2003 17:14 (twenty years ago) link

I wish I knew who Brooke Hardy was. Is this British humor.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Thursday, 25 September 2003 19:35 (twenty years ago) link

"Throw ya neck out/Throw ya back out."

For what it's worth, Ott probably turned a couple kids onto Ministry. For that I can forgive most any flaws.

ben welsh (benwelsh), Thursday, 25 September 2003 19:39 (twenty years ago) link

interesting article. one point .. is erotica by darling buds really that common in used bins in USA .. tis indeed a rare sight in uk, and if seen should be grabbed straight away.
also .. klf = grebo. not musically by any stretch of the imagination, but didn't they work with Extreme Terror Noise @ Brits and jim cauty was definitely part of the Megadog/Crusty movement along with Youth which was like a goa trance dance side to the whole Grebo thing .. n'est pas ? and GBOA did an acid house album as well .. so there were connections ..

mark e (mark e), Friday, 26 September 2003 08:08 (twenty years ago) link

I don't really want to intrude, but I just wanted to say thank you... to actually believe that Pitchfork has more readers than spin is really funny, and I will cherish that for quite awhile.

Daron Gardner (Daron Gardner), Friday, 26 September 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link

to actually believe that Pitchfork has more readers than spin is really funny, and I will cherish that for quite awhile.

To ‘clear that up,’ in August, PFM had more unique hits than Spin has monthly subscribers. (But this, of course, does not mean that PFM has more readers because that stat doesn’t take into account Spin’s newsstand sales, comp list recipients, and that multiple ppl read each circulated copy of a magazine.)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 18:56 (twenty years ago) link

Aside from that, unique hits are not the same as unique users. And unique users are the best comparison to print readership. If you come to a website on two different days, that counts as two unique hits (if you come back to the same website on the same day, ie during the same browser session, that's just one hit.) Comparing hits to print readers is like saying that every day I open the magazine counts as an extra reader.

The website I work for gets around 20 million unique hits a month. And it has around 6 million users a month. Big difference.

auditor, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:04 (twenty years ago) link

I can't believe no one's mentioned Worthington's Law, the more money you make, the better you are. This translates into all areas where more of something (readership) = better!

Andy Beckerman, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

Oops--600,000 users a month! Even bigger difference.

auditor, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, sorry, I did mean unique users/viewers, not hits. (thx, auditor!) This tricky Interweb terminology! (I should leave this marketing/business stuff to other pitchfork types who are more familiar with that end of things...)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link

And I'm guessing these comparison figures don't take into account all the people who go to spinmagazine.com either, right?

chuck, Friday, 26 September 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link

most people just go to pitchfork cos they forgot the web address for suicidegirls anyway

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:56 (twenty years ago) link

And I'm guessing these comparison figures don't take into account all the people who go to spinmagazine.com either, right?

No, of course not. I'm not trying to manipulate these numbers to 'prove' PFM is bigger than Spin, just explaining in the face of this confusion and derision the root of that claim (and why, yes, it is flawed). (And I'm probably being defensive in the process, but I personally don't find anything healthy about these sorts of pissing contests. I'm more than happy to defend the site when I think it's being unfairly characterized, but floating misinformation as proof of PFM's size and 'superiority,' I don't find to be helpful to altering the site's image. That's not meant to be a slight toward Chris. We just approach things differently.)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:14 (twenty years ago) link


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