British Right-Wing Pundits

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Talking of crackpots, get a read of the Scottish Christian Party manifesto:

9. Prisons
The Scottish Christian Party believes that the much needed extra prison
capacity should be purchased from developing countries for the purpose
of catering for Scotland’s medium Security Prisons. This should take the
form of building state of the art prison facilities in developing countries
that wish to host Scottish Prisons.
Advantages would include:
1. Less overcrowded prisons, cheaper costs and greater efficiency
2. More resources at home to look after our worst offenders properly
3. More economic trade instead of aid handouts to developing
countries
4. Raising prison standards in developing countries by example and
the provision of expertise.

onimo, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:17 (sixteen years ago) link

They say this is no different to setting up call centres abroad.

onimo, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:17 (sixteen years ago) link

'by any 20th century standard'

what now?

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:18 (sixteen years ago) link

do they have less sway cos the most emotive right / left battles have been "won"? ie the unions, the acceptability of prejudice? i think they are "learning" from the american's clarkson's whole schtick is provication isn't it, look how angry i can make these daft eco-nuts!

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:20 (sixteen years ago) link

Between 1980 and the present the whole political spectrum in the western world has been drifting rightwards back into liberalism (with certain conservative tendencies)

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:20 (sixteen years ago) link

british journalism is more frivolous and clubbable than US journalism. all UK hacks know each other. this probably isn't so much the case in the states.

yes ed i know. but the idea that liberalism is the worst the 20th century right has to offer is batshit insane. as is the idea that welfare capitalism was some kind of 'left'. even without factoring in the fact that at the start of the century liberalism was kind of... left-wing.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:24 (sixteen years ago) link

outsourcing prisons to eastern european countries in the EC - who will be the first New Labour or Tories?

djmartian, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:26 (sixteen years ago) link

Send 'em all to Botany Bay.

I think for historical reasons the U.S. has this strong libertarian streak (ie right to bear arms etc.) coupled with a strong religious/puritan streak. Put the two together and they coelesce into a very strong, very dynamic right-wing culture that simply doesn't exist in the UK. And that's why rightwing pundits don't have so much sway. I mean David Cameron would be quite a bit to the left of most Democrat candidates.

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:27 (sixteen years ago) link

I mean David Cameron would be quite a bit to the left of most Democrat candidates.

Not where it matters he isn't

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:29 (sixteen years ago) link

Rightwing pundits have an absolute fuckload of sway, party politics is an irrelevence here. Ask White Van Man what he thinks about asylum seekers.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:29 (sixteen years ago) link

I would say that liberalism was progressive not left- wing per say. And whether or not you think 'welfare capitalism' is of the left or not, the centre is to the right of even that now.

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:30 (sixteen years ago) link

xpost to Tom D.

Where it matters? Well for a start I'm guessing Cameron's not going to dismantle the NHS in any fundamental way. Can you imagine a serious Democrat candidate proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare?

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:32 (sixteen years ago) link

british reactionary right is xenophobic and defensive rather than on constant attack like the americans?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:32 (sixteen years ago) link

Where it matters? Well for a start I'm guessing Cameron's not going to dismantle the NHS in any fundamental way. Can you imagine a serious Democrat candidate proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare?

We'll see how good that guess is when he wins the next election. Cameron isn't proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare either, we've already got it. Cameron is only "radical" when it comes to wearing a wind turbine on your head or cycling backwards on a bicycle made entirely of radishes

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:35 (sixteen years ago) link

You sure you're not mixing up David Cameron with John Otway?

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:38 (sixteen years ago) link

And Wild Willie Whitelaw?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:38 (sixteen years ago) link

upthread are you dudes talking economic or social liberalism? or both?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:41 (sixteen years ago) link

both

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:42 (sixteen years ago) link

xpost

Sure, Cameron didn't come up with free healthcare! But the political climate is such that he'd have a hard time getting rid of it. Which underlines my point about the political background being skewed more leftwards in the UK, despite years of Thatcher/Blair.

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:43 (sixteen years ago) link

"Cameron isn't proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare either, we've already got it."

well except for things involving teeth or eyes, ie the only two things i ever go in for...

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:44 (sixteen years ago) link

just going to say

Alan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:45 (sixteen years ago) link

We'll see how hard a time he has getting rid of it, it'll be less hard than you think once he persuades the middle classes it's in their interest (xxpost)

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:46 (sixteen years ago) link

Well, I think if it were politically possible to get rid of the NHS, it would have already been done. Anyway, doesn't Cameron have a disabled kid or something. He probably uses the NHS more than the average Tory.

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:49 (sixteen years ago) link

They are getting rid of it already, piece by piece

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:49 (sixteen years ago) link

um guys the nhs is already on the way out...

xpost!

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:50 (sixteen years ago) link

BUT immigration is the no 1 concern of uk voters! apprently. maybe my first hypothesis was v v wrong.

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:21 (sixteen years ago) link

Not according to the most recent polls.

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:23 (sixteen years ago) link

Being tough on immigration didn't do Michael Howard much good last time round did it?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:23 (sixteen years ago) link

... and wasn't Cameron one of those responsible for that policy?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:25 (sixteen years ago) link

parties don't campaign on 'number one concern of voters' in general but the voters who will swing the election, ie middle england blah blah blah.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:25 (sixteen years ago) link

Middle england (according to the polls) cares about health and house prices.

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:30 (sixteen years ago) link

healthy and house prices

fixed

onimo, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:31 (sixteen years ago) link

what on earth could their problem be with house prices!? they are winning that war. it would be interesting to know the nature of middle england's concern w. health -- taking my parents as barometer of same, their problem isn't exactly lack of service but quality of it: hospital bugs etc. a move by the tories towards increased private provision probably wouldn't phase them too much.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:48 (sixteen years ago) link

their kids getting on the property ladder?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:49 (sixteen years ago) link

Having to live near poor people?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:52 (sixteen years ago) link

are the right wing pundits repping for "middle england" thou? as dom points out Littlejohn is, or at least was, the voice of white van man. all the big scares of recent years have focused on working class fears as much as middle england haven't they?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:02 (sixteen years ago) link

the fact that homeowners who actually rent their houses from the bank think theyre rich overnight and are spending the paper money they dont have?

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:05 (sixteen years ago) link

Ha ha, who cares about "working class fears"?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:06 (sixteen years ago) link

Difference between white working class fears of immigration and middle England fears of immigration? Straightforward difference of economics vs culture?

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:08 (sixteen years ago) link

also theres a sense that rightwing british pundits dont really believe that much in what they right, so it all comes off a bit geezer down the pub, who says one thing one minute and another the next

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:08 (sixteen years ago) link

a decent education system in this country might mean people writing right instead of righting write

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link

If nothing else, the French election campaign makes me feel nostalgic for the days when one party stood for something and another party stood for something else, clearcut with no ambiguity and no chasing after the same limited and overrated floating electorate.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:09 (sixteen years ago) link

perhaps with a decent university system that keeps the poor out, some of them may even write correctly

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:10 (sixteen years ago) link

"the fact that homeowners who actually rent their houses from the bank think theyre rich overnight and are spending the paper money they dont have?

-- 600, Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:05 PM (4 minutes ago)"

lol 8080

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:11 (sixteen years ago) link

There are a lot of rent-a-rightie types on the op ed pages of the Times who you know cynically knock out 500 words of half-hearted spleen on the turn of a dime and really don't give a toss one way or the other - stand up Stephen Pollard, Ross Clark, Mick Hume and Rosemary Righter, which latter name could have come straight out of Kingsley Amis.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:12 (sixteen years ago) link

oh i think mick hume cares a lot. he's sinister fucker with a scary team.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:18 (sixteen years ago) link

Since when was Mick Hume on Sinister?

Still, never trust an ex-Marxist.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:23 (sixteen years ago) link

i think saying they don't actually believe what they're saying is a bit dangerous. cf that thread about melanie phillips and the missing WMDs.

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:53 (sixteen years ago) link

I've said this before elsewhere on ILE, but Peter Cook used to write a fervently right-wing column for the Daily Mail in '76-8. He said he didn't agree with a word of it but he thought that was the kind of writing the editor of the Daily Mail wanted, and it paid good money. Most notoriously, he gave a scathing denouncement of punk rock which he'd written with Malcolm McLaren the night before.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:56 (sixteen years ago) link

Just a friendly sieg heil each morning,
Helps to make a better day.

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Saturday, 16 March 2024 09:12 (one month ago) link

isn't she Australian?

This is Dance Anthems, have some respect (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 16 March 2024 09:17 (one month ago) link

Serbian and Australian not a great combination tbh.

man in suit and red tie raising his fist (Tom D.), Saturday, 16 March 2024 09:22 (one month ago) link

xp as I said, diaspora. Chetniks march in the ANZAC parade and their flags have shown up at tennis matches. Let’s just say they’re not too worried about the association.

Roman Anthony gets on his horse (gyac), Saturday, 16 March 2024 09:31 (one month ago) link

I know, just saying that when a white immigrant to the UK starts coming out with anti-immigrant rhetoric then yeah it is really very obvious as regards racist (barely) subtext. notable also that her only big hit was a cover version of a Turkish hit.

This is Dance Anthems, have some respect (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Saturday, 16 March 2024 11:23 (one month ago) link

three weeks pass...

https://www.ft.com/content/2bd751aa-e2bf-4ab6-a3d5-38fb5b571833

It is hard to establish cause and effect. Wars are so frequent that one can always be tied to a chronologically adjacent invention. Still, the west’s Long Peace more or less maps on to the stagnation that Cowen and others describe. And it is possible to theorise how war might serve as a stimulant. First, the trauma forces the imagination into new and strange places. Second, the resulting ideas are easier to sell because the ruling ideas are so tainted with blood. Third, the violence itself often gives rise to some kind of technical innovation.

In The Third Man, Orson Welles’s character observes that, while the warring states of the Italian peninsula gave us the Renaissance, serene Switzerland produced the “cuckoo clock”. (Harsh on Rousseau and Le Corbusier, that.) The film came out in 1949. A human lifetime later, he could be describing the entire western world. I am writing this on a MacBook that is much the same as the laptop I first owned a generation ago. People watch episodic TV shows, as they did in 1990, even if they do so on-demand. We who dine out most nights wait, in vain, for a new direction in the restaurant world. I now see all this sameness as the (dirt cheap) price of prolonged peace. I have no certainty that a war would be a creative stimulus, just a nauseous feeling that we are due to find out.

"our s
Obviously reactionary nutters have been writing "our society needs a war" ever since 1945, but it feels like there is a coordiation of drum-banging recently with all the conscription stuff. It's pretty chilling how desperately some people want to see Britain nuked in our lifetimes.
The above is obviously risible clickbait but I think it does lay bare some of the hidden arguments behind the acceptable liberal ones.

glumdalclitch, Monday, 8 April 2024 14:05 (one week ago) link

Who wrote that?

Hunky Tory (Tom D.), Monday, 8 April 2024 14:06 (one week ago) link

Janan Ganesh, sorry here's an archive link

https://archive.ph/XyWWZ

glumdalclitch, Monday, 8 April 2024 14:09 (one week ago) link

dying at 'in vain'

plax (ico), Monday, 8 April 2024 14:11 (one week ago) link

That Janan is breathing ought to be enough reason to bring back the guillotine.

xyzzzz__, Monday, 8 April 2024 15:11 (one week ago) link

the national service act can conscript those aged between 18-41, Janan is 42!

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Monday, 8 April 2024 15:19 (one week ago) link

i was gonna say "the new fash are deeply into cosplay militarism" but of course we can take out the "new" from that. it's a central pillar of fascism full stop. if it looks a little more ridiculous now than it did in the 1920s maybe that's just because people can see thru their shit a little more clearly

Bitchin Doutai (Noodle Vague), Monday, 8 April 2024 15:22 (one week ago) link

What the fuck are pro-conscriptionists even imagining? Land battles in eastern Europe? What year is this?

It's like the end of Vile Bodies when were back in the world 1914 in exactly the same conditions, just 15 years later.

glumdalclitch, Monday, 8 April 2024 15:37 (one week ago) link

*world of 1914

glumdalclitch, Monday, 8 April 2024 15:37 (one week ago) link

Ugh. Fucking chickenhawk.

steely flan (suzy), Monday, 8 April 2024 16:14 (one week ago) link

the third man line was bullshit that welles made up during filming. i wonder how many people have died due to that scene and the idiot warmongers who think it's fact.

formerly abanana (dat), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 10:56 (one week ago) link

The parenthetical right after basically acknowledges it’s bullshit! Not to mention that most normal people would agree that lime is not the hero of that film

subpost master (wins), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 11:07 (one week ago) link

Would you really feel any pity if a few million of those dots stop moving — forever?

vodkaitamin effrtvescent (calzino), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 11:31 (one week ago) link

Yes, it's a glib self-serving line by a glib self-serving character in movie. Also have we all forgotten the Affair of the Sausages?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affair_of_the_Sausages

Hunky Tory (Tom D.), Tuesday, 9 April 2024 11:39 (one week ago) link

i wonder how many people have died due to that scene and the idiot warmongers who think it's fact.

I think it's 0 fwiw

Daniel_Rf, Tuesday, 9 April 2024 12:37 (one week ago) link

what about this one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjpkoPEn0cI

difficult listening hour, Tuesday, 9 April 2024 14:39 (one week ago) link

A pile of free copies of The Critic has started to appear every month in the reception area of my work. Usual names on the usual themes. Woke agenda in universities/BBC/civil service. What is wrong with being elitist? Diary pieces that begin "To the theatre..." Cartoons of men on desert islands. Is there a bottomless well of this stuff? Like someone saw a gap in the market between The Oldie and The Spectator, to fill with more mid-brow right-wing STUFF, printed on paper with a nice cover. Who buys it? Who funds it?

fetter, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 13:14 (six days ago) link

Who buys it? maybe those who think of Private Eye as too woke thesedays...

Mark G, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 15:57 (six days ago) link

lmao at "Cartoons of men on desert islands."

𝔠𝔞𝔢𝔨 (caek), Wednesday, 10 April 2024 16:01 (six days ago) link

isn't the Critic funded by Jeremy Hosking? With the money he had left over after giving millions to Laurence Fox and Andrew Bridgen.

it always seems to me that the cartoons in the Spectator are better than the cartoons in Private Eye despite a lot of them being by the same cartoonists - I always wondered how many of the cartoons that appear in the Eye are ones that the Spectator has already rejected? Do cartoonists save their best stuff for the Spectator because they know the Eye's standards are lower?

soref, Wednesday, 10 April 2024 17:54 (six days ago) link


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