― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:00 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:02 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
The basic song style shouldn't change, while the backing track should always use new technology to create exciting modern sounds.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:05 (twenty-one years ago) link
― M Matos (M Matos), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:06 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:08 (twenty-one years ago) link
The part that's slightly annoying -- and this is constructive criticism, Geir -- is when he pops into a thread on hip-hop or something and restates his objections to it. I mean, Geir, I think many of us understand the way you look at music -- it's not hugely complicated or anything -- and we can just take it as given that you wouldn't like hip-hop. It's interesting to hear your take on different things, but it can sort of rile people when you just say "this is bad" and go on arguing that for a while. It's sort of rude, you see, because it's disrespectful of their opinions: we know certain stuff doesn't fit your criteria, but it basically hurts people's feeling when you just say it's "bad," instead of thinking about what their criteria are and why they might like or dislike different things.
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:17 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:18 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Cozen (Cozen), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:19 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
"shakespeare's sister": because it doesn't.
― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
Even the part about his mother?
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:24 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Burr (Burr), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ned Raggett (Ned), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
"Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols has leaden verse melodies that "go" nowhere, and a drawn-out, "anthemic" chorus with no rhythmic or melodic tension leading up to it or taking place within it. VERY VERY BORING! http://www.geocities.com/alfonzobelushi/vyvscumbagcollege.jpg
― Sam J. (samjeff), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
He just forgets that everyone has a different set of qualities that excite them like that. He's confused his feeling with a universal feeling. We all privately think like Geir. We all search out music that conforms to a particular set of standards that we have set up (even if we don't realize it, and haven't set out to identify EXACTLY what these standards are). The only problem is that he is trying to impose his standard upon our tastes, and upon all music.
Okay, sorry, that was really muddled.
(Apologies, Geir, if I am offbase)
― Melissa W (Melissa W), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Curt1s St3ph3ns, Saturday, 5 April 2003 20:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
I don't think I'm willing to accept that. < /deliberate unreasonableness>
― Martin Skidmore (Martin Skidmore), Saturday, 5 April 2003 20:15 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 5 April 2003 20:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Adam A. (Keiko), Saturday, 5 April 2003 20:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
Yes = crap.
― Burr (Burr), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
For instance, since this is R.E.M. day - in "Stumble" (the last song on "Chronic Town"), the second half of the verse bassline throughout most of the song is all one note, with a dip to a slightly higher note at the end of the phrase (bum-bumbum-bumbum-bumbumBUM). But then, at the end of the song (after the beatnik/be-bop bridge), the bassline changes, just slightly - it's still mostly that same one note, but now it jumps to a different, even higher note at the end of the phrase, and in a slightly different place: bum-bumbum-bumbum-baBUMbum. This used to KNOCK ME THE FUG OUT.
I mean, cripes, the Velvet Underground. The scratchy-guitar/ringing-guitar/piano/bass melody of "Waiting for My Man" is one of my favorite things.
I guess Geir's disparagement of the blues, though (except that "first" 12-bar song) shows that indeed a rigid structure of repetition does nothing for him. But, boy, it sure describes a lot of the music that makes me loopy.
― Sam J. (samjeff), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:20 (twenty-one years ago) link
bad melody: pretty much any progressive rock. For example Yes' Roundabout. It's just too complicated and has more than three chords. Which makes it suck. Switching key changes too often completely ruins the consistancy of the melody. A nice predictable and simple melody is always better.
― A Nairn (moretap), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:26 (twenty-one years ago) link
O GAWD! i lurrrrrve this sentence!
― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:30 (twenty-one years ago) link
― jess (dubplatestyle), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:38 (twenty-one years ago) link
is that your theory, jess? ;-)
― t\'\'t (t\'\'t), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
ii. Hmm, a bad melody... This is harder to do, as I have a tendency to forget bad melodies. One I detest is the Beatles' "Long and Winding Road". I guess it's easy to pick on Paul McCartney, since he's penned so many brilliant tunes, but this one really isn't. It's just like the title says: long and winding. As anyone who has driven on such a road can attest, the experience is not pleasant. I think this is a good example of how an attempt to be "classical" can lead a good pop songwriter astray. This seems like an attempt to write a long, complex melody, but it ends up connoting nothing so much as grim determination, like a marathon runner nearing the finish line, but for the listener it's much easier just to reach for the skip button.
― o. nate (onate), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:44 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Lord Custos Epsilon (Lord Custos Epsilon), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:45 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Pashmina (Pashmina), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
You've just defined prog.
― Burr (Burr), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
ii. (will come back to this part later; can't think of anything now)
― Jody Beth Rosen (Jody Beth Rosen), Saturday, 5 April 2003 21:50 (twenty-one years ago) link
The whole song feels like someone presenting a children's television show, wheeling out a big box and going "oooo, kids, what do you think is in the box?" And then the box opens and it's the puppet sidekick, OBVIOUSLY, and if you're like five and the puppet sidekick is really cool there's an element of satisfaction in that -- but when the puppet sidekick is a fucking plug-ordinary McCartney vocal that WOW AMAZING basically just fits the chord under it, you sort of want to slap the hell out of him for acting all David Copperfield when he whips it out.
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 22:33 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Saturday, 5 April 2003 22:36 (twenty-one years ago) link
Maybe you need to make an effort not to look for the working if you're musically literate (unlike me).
― N. (nickdastoor), Saturday, 5 April 2003 22:52 (twenty-one years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Sunday, 6 April 2003 01:09 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Scott Seward, Sunday, 6 April 2003 02:43 (twenty-one years ago) link
And where did I see that I am against rhythm?
Rhyuthm should be present, I only feel it is unimportant and shouldn't dominate too much.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 6 April 2003 09:29 (twenty-one years ago) link
It is fairly obvious that somebody who has done theoretical music studies for years and years is clearly musically superior to somebody who just picked up a guitar yesterday (no point arguing here, because this is an objective fact!), and who out of the two is most likely to write complex songs with lots of chords?
Paul McCartney, however, also has written a couple of really bad songs, "Helter Skelter", "Yellow Submarine", "I'm Down" and "She's a Woman" being the worst.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 6 April 2003 09:34 (twenty-one years ago) link
― mark s (mark s), Sunday, 6 April 2003 09:49 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Sterling Clover (s_clover), Monday, 7 April 2003 16:59 (twenty-one years ago) link
Geir has supplied a telling insight into the limitations of his own listening habits: He is incapable of seeing anything in music BEYOND THE SURFACE. A blues song to him is three chords, case closed. That a beat might have meaning (or completely transfigure a melody); that a simple three-chord song (say "Learning the Game" or "This Must Be the Place") might be capable of complex, even profound, effect -- all this is simply beyond Geir's capabilities. I don't know is Geir likes movies but if so, I'll bet he hates Jean Renoir, the Lumieres, Ozu, Ford -- artists who create depth from the simplest of images, the most modest of camera setups -- as surely as he hates Louis Armstrong, Bo Diddley, and Stax/Volt. (I can practically hear him complain about the lack of ideas and editing in Le Crime de Monsieur Lange, compared to Dune.) In short, Geir has no idea how music (at least 20th-century music) works.
― Burr (Burr), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:04 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
― James Blount (James Blount), Monday, 7 April 2003 17:11 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben Williams, Monday, 7 April 2003 17:51 (twenty-one years ago) link
― dave q, Monday, 7 April 2003 20:31 (twenty-one years ago) link
― nabisco (nabisco), Monday, 7 April 2003 21:21 (twenty-one years ago) link
"White Car in Germany" by the Associates has a jaw-dropping melody. The opening root-5th-octave synth bass line leaves you wondering whether the song is in a major or a minor key. It settles seemingly into a major key when the lead synth enters with the chorus(although the ever-present opening synth dribble (not the bass line) occasionally hits a flat 2nd, adding a lot of strange tension), but the opening vocal begins with a minor figure, coinciding with a similar shift in the backing track. The first time I heard this, I found it very odd and disorienting; it was hard to grasp the melody at first, but when I did I was floored. Another cool thing is the way that MacKenzie begins the third line of the verse on a major 2nd.
Some might say the melody's shortcoming is its resemblance to a line that should be played on a synth -- rhythmically, this might be a fair judgment, since the chorus is pretty much all quarter notes, and the verses aren't that much more complex -- but this only illuminates its strengths more clearly. MacKenzie's vocal is so amazing, too, in terms of delaying lines ever so slightly, shading the stately melodic line with vibrato, etc., that you hardly even notice the melodic line's rhythmic simplicity. In fact, I only noticed it just now when I was trying to come up with something to say about it.
(For other good melodies, see also -- well, pretty much anything by Rankine/MacKenzie ever.)
2. Bad melody
The melody of Richard Marx's "Right Here Waiting For You" is incredibly dull and lifeless. The same criticism about the melodic line's too-simple rhythm could be leveled here; the difference is, Marx actually sounds like a synth -- scratch that, a $40 Radio Shack Casio if it had a "creamy-voiced tool" setting. He just goes from one note to the note closest to it on the scale -- no leaps to create interest/imply striving/falling/whatever. The first "I will be right here waiting for you" actually ends on a 5th after climbing stepwise down the scale! It's the limpest thing ever.
― Clarke B., Monday, 7 April 2003 21:23 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Ben Williams, Monday, 7 April 2003 21:25 (twenty-one years ago) link
Not Level 42. Dunno too much about Kajagoogoo, but I have the impression they got more musically complex after Limahl went solo.
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― sqwurl puhlise (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:47 (twenty-one years ago) link
Meet the 80s....
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 22:48 (twenty-one years ago) link
Good melody - "The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down"so perfect that any change kills it for me (see Joan Baez). Still, the arrangement and performanceare vital icing on the cake; any rendition by pro-tooling sessionsists would sound awful.
Bad melody - 75% of all Jim Morrison vocal melodies. TheDoors still kick ass, of course, but for different reasons.
Re: "Meet the 80s..." true, but it _was_ the decade of Firehose, Talking Heads, and _Skylarking_, all of which had organicproduction. It was a tough decade, though, and a lot of great songwriters produced sonically shitty product.
― skwirl plise (Squirrel_Police), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:01 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 7 April 2003 23:03 (twenty-one years ago) link
― brian badword (badwords), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 04:12 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Adrian Langston (Adrian Langston), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 08:07 (twenty-one years ago) link
awaiting return of mark s.....
― Snowy Mann (rdmanston), Tuesday, 8 April 2003 10:42 (twenty-one years ago) link
― Baaderonixx says DANCE!! TAKE A CHANCE!!! (baaderonixx), Thursday, 27 October 2005 15:03 (eighteen years ago) link
Revive! Ain't nothing like the good old days...
― Embarchie, Friday, 25 January 2008 23:37 (sixteen years ago) link
I don't see the point in clubs for indie fans at all. At least clubs where you are supposed to dance. Indie fans don't dance.
― Geir Hongro, Wednesday, 10 December 2008 14:18 (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink
― Seanadams Molloy (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 14:33 (fifteen years ago) link
he meant 'can't' - these language barriers...
― Yentl vs Predator (blueski), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 14:35 (fifteen years ago) link
Indie fans don't dance, they just pull up their pants and do the rockaway
― Seanadams Molloy (The stickman from the hilarious 'xkcd' comics), Wednesday, 10 December 2008 14:36 (fifteen years ago) link
No, it is just yet another evidence that (melodic) pop will always remain better than rock.― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Saturday, 5 April 2003 19:41 (eighteen years ago)
Correct, but English melodies are about a hundred times inferior to the Arabesk pop of müslüm gürses. Listen to Tanri istemezse and you will realise that the entire corpus of white pop music is not nearly melodic enough. and that is just one song. Key changes mask a lack of talent.
― RobbiePires, Thursday, 14 October 2021 20:58 (two years ago) link
12 tones are too mathematically limited. To have absolute melodic supremacy you need complete resolution, and 12 tones do not fully resolve.
― RobbiePires, Thursday, 14 October 2021 21:07 (two years ago) link