come anticipate "the saddest music in world" with me!

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from the American Museum of the Moving Image:

On Thursday, April 29, at 7:30 p.m., Guy Maddin will be present for a Pinewood Dialogue following a preview screening of his acclaimed new feature THE SADDEST MUSIC IN THE WORLD. This screening takes place at the Chelsea 9 Theater, 260 West 23rd Street, Manhattan. Tickets are $18 public and $12 members. Click here to read Maddin's enchantingly eccentric production diaries in The Village Voice:
http://villagevoice.com/issues/0319/maddin.php.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 18:38 (twenty years ago) link

marcelled bobs! very exciting. when will this look come back?

kephm, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 18:52 (twenty years ago) link

I really enjoyed Twilight of the Ice Nymphs when I saw it with lauren, but I haven't seen anything else by him since.

hstencil, Tuesday, 20 April 2004 18:54 (twenty years ago) link

marcelled bobs! very exciting. when will this look come back?

i've been working on it for the past 4 years.

lauren (laurenp), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 19:03 (twenty years ago) link

I think even those around here who are unfamiliar with Maddin have to be suckers for the plot of "Saddest," which, because I'm procrastinating on a book review, I'll transcribe from the Music Box sked I have (Opens May 14, Chicago folks):

It's 1933 in Winnipeg and the Great Depression is in full bloom. To boost sales, beer baroness Lady Port-Huntly (Isabella Rossellini) announces a global competition to determine the saddest music in the world, and musicians across the globe pour into town to vie for the $25,000 prize. Broadway producer Chester Kent (Mark McKinney), with his amnesiac girlfriend by his side, represents the United States in the contest, but he soon finds himself embroiled in a family reunion as twisted as the competition himself.

m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 20:56 (twenty years ago) link

man, that sounds amazing.

Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 21:38 (twenty years ago) link

Hopefully it'll be a success. Then it can put a smile on the poor guy's mug:

http://www.usedwigs.com/graphics/maddin.jpg

m.e.a. (m.e.a.), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 21:57 (twenty years ago) link

Wow. Just got an email from a friend about this. I fully admit I don't know a thing about the film, but his band are playing here in London as part of the launch:

In London (UK) on May 5, Great Lake Swimmers will represent Canada in a melancholic idol-style musical contest to find "The Saddest Music in the World." Including a half-dozen bands from across the world, the competition marks the UK launch of celebrated Canadian filmmaker Guy Maddin's new film of the same title. The launch and competition takes place in London (UK) at the Café de Paris on Leicester Square at 8 pm on Wednesday, May 5.

I highly recommend his music. Yes, it is very sad. I will now school myself on Guy Maddin.

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 22:48 (twenty years ago) link

Dunno if Cafe de Paris is the best place for this launch, though...

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 22:50 (twenty years ago) link

I'd never heard of the guy before reading this thread, but I'm really excited now - this just seems rad!

Gregory Henry (Gregory Henry), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 23:29 (twenty years ago) link

Is this the movie where Isabella Rosellini has glass legs filled with beer?

Tracer Hand (tracerhand), Tuesday, 20 April 2004 23:33 (twenty years ago) link

Yes it is.

The current issue of Sight and Sound has a great feature with the most heartstopping stills. I was agog over my omelette as I perused them last Friday.

Jerry the Nipper (Jerrynipper), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 06:35 (twenty years ago) link

I saw this at the fest in Montreal last Winter. Very cold, fuzzy, withdrawn film: up to its neck in its strange, oldfashioned aesthetic. Not sad so much as light reflected off of sad - you wash yourself in the black-and-white of other peoples' small, sometimes silly, sorrows.

Sean M (Sean M), Wednesday, 21 April 2004 18:22 (twenty years ago) link

opening today, whoop!

lauren (laurenp), Friday, 30 April 2004 17:52 (twenty years ago) link

Just saw the London premiere last night. Winnipeg! Beer! Double-amputee sex! Yay!

Good film. Madden introduced it in his awkwardly nervous way. Mark and Maria were there too. We were given free Sleeman beer as we walked in (a not-so-good Canadian beer - they sponsored the premiere). This was a bad idea as almost everyone (myself included) needed to pee at some point during the movie...

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Thursday, 6 May 2004 07:44 (twenty years ago) link

But I didn't really enjoy the after-party:

The occasional and overwhelming urge to kill everyone around you

Rob Bolton (Rob Bolton), Thursday, 6 May 2004 08:20 (twenty years ago) link

Bah, it doesn't open here (Santa Fe) until June 11, and then at a crap mall multiplex that routinely shows stuff in the wrong ratio, but I'm still excited. Dracula never made it here at all.

The IFC website for Saddest Music has the trailer and a few shorts available, including Sissy Boy Slap Party, which just made my morning. You can also enter a drawing for an all-expense-paid trip to Winnipeg!


brian patrick (brian patrick), Thursday, 6 May 2004 13:48 (twenty years ago) link

I'm seeing it tonight!!

A Nairn (moretap), Saturday, 15 May 2004 16:39 (twenty years ago) link

enjoy. i thought it was fantastic.

lauren (laurenp), Saturday, 15 May 2004 18:45 (twenty years ago) link

Bryan said I had to see this! So I'm going to try to catch a matinee this week. Oh, wait, they don't have matinees during the week. Dammit dammit phooey. Oh well. This had better be good!

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 15 May 2004 20:46 (twenty years ago) link

Whooooa, so hilarious and not at the same time. Yeah, def. see it. It's the best thing to come from Canada, better than Dracula: Pages from a Virgins' Diary.

A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 16 May 2004 01:26 (twenty years ago) link

I was kinda hoping I'd know more people in it. My friend Claire is the Spanish singer. It's a very Winnipeg film...feels like here.

Bryan (Bryan), Sunday, 16 May 2004 01:37 (twenty years ago) link

Really, that was your girlfriend?

What did she say Guy Maddin is like?

A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 16 May 2004 02:13 (twenty years ago) link

or, I mean just friend, but How did she get to do that?

A Nairn (moretap), Sunday, 16 May 2004 02:14 (twenty years ago) link

Oh yes. So Donut Bitch and I saw this last night. It was pretty great.

I have this big theory that if you studied film history up until the 70s right before Star Wars came out and the blockbuster mentality set in, and if you knew how technology would develop over the next few decades, that you would assume that by this point, most films would be like "The Saddest Music In The World". But I don't really know enough about films to really say that with any authority, so feel free to igonre it.

Anyway I will definately keep my eye out for other of his films.

Casuistry (Chris P), Saturday, 22 May 2004 05:18 (nineteen years ago) link

Saw it last night with Sarah, jaymc, and his gf. It was um good. It's too early in the am for vivid descriptions. My favorite parts were when he used lots of fast cuts (eg, all the musicians putting instruments in cases) and it got all crazy and blurry.

NA (Nick A.), Saturday, 22 May 2004 14:22 (nineteen years ago) link

A Nairn: Claire got the gig because she's a well known flamenca dancer here and Maddin tries to hire as many local people as he can. For example, the guy who played Roderick (Ross McMillan) is a wonderful local actor/writer/director. I don't think Claire got to talk to Guy much but he is well known here as being a very nice kinda shy man. I hope everyone who sees this at least finds it interesting.

Bryan (Bryan), Saturday, 22 May 2004 16:58 (nineteen years ago) link

I really want to visit Winnipeg now that I've seen this film. On December 21st, the saddest of the sad dark days, of course.

donut bitch (donut), Saturday, 22 May 2004 23:53 (nineteen years ago) link

This was the first Guy Maddin film I was able to see on the big screen, so that aspect alone was thrilling for me...the movie itself was great, with lots of small yet detailed nutty moments. Like when the father runs up the staircase with insane movements and facial expressions...or when the Serbian brother faints after his performance and then they slide him into the pool of beer, still limp. It's also kind of weird that the women often have exotic (mostly eastern European) accents in his films, but the men usually have indistinctive accents. And Maddin really knows how to use music and sound effects (and that low rumbling ambient noise) well in his shorts/movies.

Did anyone else think that the father looked like Darren McGavin (the father in A Christmas Story)? There was an eerie parallel when he held up the glass legs - kind of like the Christmas Story father and his fishnet stocking leg lamp.

Ernest P. (ernestp), Sunday, 23 May 2004 20:54 (nineteen years ago) link

Ha! I knew there was something rumbling around in my subconscious about that scene.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 23 May 2004 20:59 (nineteen years ago) link

"Nairn, why on earth did Saddest make you proud to be an American?"

No, it didn't really. I was just really funny: all the commentary on America and it's consumerism. Like Mark Mckinney paying all the other countries to help him out. And the line where he asks the girls from indian to play as eskimos. It is like how America sees all its minorities as the same. But really there are no American characters in it. Mark Mckinney is a Canadian that went to NYC and developed some showmanship. All of it is just the way others perceive Americans.

A Nairn (moretap), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:04 (nineteen years ago) link

i saw this,but i don't know what to make of it. i think i admired it more t han i liked it.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:30 (nineteen years ago) link

I have to say that I am really unsure of whether or not I want to see this. I am not in the mood for "wackiness" at this moment in time.

@d@ml (nordicskilla), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:33 (nineteen years ago) link

It's kind of too dark to be all that wacky. Even Mark Mckinney is not really at all like he usually is.

A Nairn (moretap), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:35 (nineteen years ago) link

it's definitely not just "wacky," but neither did it really sink its tenterhooks into me either--emotionally i mean. although the person i went with was a bit moved.

i mean, most critics say his self-consciously "antiquated" appropriations don't have a distancing effect, but i did experience them that way.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:40 (nineteen years ago) link

It's not wacky (although there are moments) nor is it emotional (though it, you know, it makes use of emotional material but it doesn't seem to have any interest in having you "feel" it, for the most part) -- it is, instead, artsy. In a good way. The emotional parts all come from fairly unexpected sources, and they're small moments.

For the most part, though, there are some great short-story-esque ideas, and some great filmic images and movements, and a lot of what might be a sort of postmodern pastichery -- as Nairn was talking about the way it treats the idea of "America", and you watch it unfold, and what it's saying is fairly obvious, but how it's saying it is really interesting.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:57 (nineteen years ago) link

i agree, and i think that adds up to a film that i was sort of indifferent to, on the whole.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 22:59 (nineteen years ago) link

Is there another movie that you think does some of that same stuff but better?

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:01 (nineteen years ago) link

no wait, not sure i agree that his visual style is as interesting as some make out.

it is nice that he uses rapid cutting in a way far removed from contemporary hollywood, at a time when most "art" filmmakers are using long takes.

but sometimes the cutting simply seems chaotic, capricious. there are only a few times in the film where there is really a powerful cumulative effect. the same almost goes for the different speeds, stocks, formats, etc. it almost verges on oliver stone-like "kitchen sink" stuff but maddin does ultimately have more discipline than that, and he has a very good sense of humor to boot.

(the conceit of the film IS hilarious and clever. and i like how the ethnic types in the contest were just that--not so much real people as the sorts you would find in Central Casting ca. 1933. remember "africa" being a country? and the "robust" spaniards?)

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:02 (nineteen years ago) link

i mean he's often compared to david lynch, which i think is wrong. lynch's ability to synch peculiar visual effects with emotional cues is uncanny. i don't think that's true of maddin.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:03 (nineteen years ago) link

I think I was actually really grooving on the fact that enjoyment of the film meant noticing the choices he had made in making it and deciding whether I would have made those same choices, or what those chioces might "mean", etc. I can't think of many other films that have had that effect on me.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:05 (nineteen years ago) link

I think I'm agreeing with you and saying that I liked the film more than, say, Blue Velvet because of all the things that you didn't like. I think "Saddest Music" would have probably been a less interesting movie if it had succeeded in being more emotionally, hm, "there".

(Though at the same time, there were unexpected emotionally resonant scenes in "Saddest", even though overall, that wasn't what it was about.)

(And actually, the only Lynch that I've deeply enjoyed -- and I haven't seen all that much -- was On The Air.)

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean yes, the cutting was capricious and chaotic at times, and in an "unsuccessful" way -- and I really enjoyed it. I liked not knowing whether the cutting was going to be "effective" or not -- it made it more surprising (and effective!) when it did work.

If that makes any sense.

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:11 (nineteen years ago) link

no, it makes total sense, and i can imagine appreciating the film for that. i learn a lot sometimes from films or records that i don't really like that much, for example.

maybe if i saw it again i'd discover that the editing was less capricious than i first thought. but i've had similar reactions to other maddin films.

amateur!st (amateurist), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:13 (nineteen years ago) link

Or, to put it another way, the capriciousness of the editing meant that I couldn't guarantee that "fast editing" would mean "exciting!!!" which broke the "rules" of cinema and broke my interpretive habits. Because there should be other reasons for doing fast editing. And sometimes it's because you've got a lot of stuff that you'd like to show in two seconds, you know?

Casuistry (Chris P), Tuesday, 25 May 2004 23:22 (nineteen years ago) link

the stuff with people putting instruments in their cases was cool.

amateur!st (amateurist), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 01:04 (nineteen years ago) link

i sort of wanted this to add up to more, but i really enjoyed it as a tone poem.

stockholm cindy (Jody Beth Rosen), Wednesday, 26 May 2004 03:58 (nineteen years ago) link

woo hoo!

g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 28 May 2004 03:18 (nineteen years ago) link

woo huh?

amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 28 May 2004 03:24 (nineteen years ago) link

i liked it. now i'm going to go have a drink.

g--ff (gcannon), Friday, 28 May 2004 03:25 (nineteen years ago) link

That this movie didn't have a "point" was one of the best things about it!

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 30 May 2004 02:12 (nineteen years ago) link

what does that mean?

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 30 May 2004 03:40 (nineteen years ago) link

That a film need not add up to some greater point or meaning to be good and/or enjoyable?

miloauckerman (miloauckerman), Sunday, 30 May 2004 03:51 (nineteen years ago) link

but why should it be good simply because it "doesn't have a point"?

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 30 May 2004 04:05 (nineteen years ago) link

(x-post)
Surely, but that line of reasoning won't hold with a movie that references roughly 83 cinematic eras/styles and has a clear political undercurrent.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 30 May 2004 04:06 (nineteen years ago) link

there is a difference between saying a film needn't have a "point" to be good and saying a film is good because it doesn't have a "point."

the latter idea would be asinine if i had any idea what it meant for a film to have a "point."

amateur!st (amateurist), Sunday, 30 May 2004 04:07 (nineteen years ago) link

What it means is, the movie could have been "meaningful" in a dozen obvious ways -- it could have really brought home the relationship between the brothers, or between Roderick and his wife, or it could have been a KitH-style comedy, or it could have been a thorough investigation of the politics of the era, or a look at politics in the 30s or the meaning of sadness or the differences between Canada and the U.S. -- but it didn't. It used all of that stuff to make the film, but the film wasn't made to make any of those points.

It's just a film.

I like that.

This is in no way my favorite movie ever but I'm finding it really interesting that the reasons people have been dismissing it are the same reasons I enjoyed it.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 30 May 2004 07:10 (nineteen years ago) link

I mean:

There are several singularly uninteresting back stories brought forward

But yeah, back stories are almost always uninteresting. Characters, plots, these are all uninteresting. They are shells upon which the interesting stuff hangs. And it's nice when they're treated as shells.

Casuistry (Chris P), Sunday, 30 May 2004 07:11 (nineteen years ago) link

I understand the reviewer's point, but in my opinion, this is probably the most entertaining full-length Maddin film from start to finish, tied maybe with Gimli Hospital. I love Careful and Archangel, but both of those movies require a lot more patience.

Ernest P. (ernestp), Sunday, 30 May 2004 16:21 (nineteen years ago) link

five months pass...
Now on DVD with a few shorts, making-of, featurette, commentary, etc.

>"Saddest Music" would have probably been a less interesting movie if it had succeeded in being more emotionally, hm, "there".<

Funny, I found the final scene with Chester banging on the piano quite moving both times. As Maddin said, he figures it all out a few minutes late... (btw, Chester is named after Cagney's character in "Footlight Parade," and Mark McK said he had to restrain himself from "doing Cagney" throughout.)

Maddin has said he's fascinated by the use of "dead" styles and genres, which is why he uses pastiche to make personal films. He also cites Lynch as a major influence.

Jonathan Rosenbaum's fine review:

http://www.chireader.com/movies/archives/2004/0504/051404_1.html

Dr Morbius (Dr Morbius), Wednesday, 17 November 2004 14:27 (nineteen years ago) link

guy maddin is in chicago tonight i believe. i won't be there (he still leaves me kind of cold), but just thought i'd let everyone know.

amateur!!st, Wednesday, 17 November 2004 21:21 (nineteen years ago) link

This movie has only declined in my mind, but Cowards Bend the Knee is spermarrific.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 18 November 2004 05:53 (nineteen years ago) link

I do need to see this again.

Casuistry (Chris P), Thursday, 18 November 2004 07:01 (nineteen years ago) link

Sissy Boy Slap Party >>>> Saddest Music

I think amateurist was pretty much OTM with his comments upthread. There were only a few really touching moments near the end (with the brother), and the 'inventiveness' of changing visual forms from shot to shot wore off pretty quick. The set design was incredible (esp. the father's house all grown up, the repeated but unstated everything's buried in snow gag) and the general lack of establishing shots to create spatial distortion was a nice change of pace. I understand his point comment much better now - at some point this just stopped adding up to anything, kind of just riffing on the same gag for two hours without taking it anywhere.

I find Maddin's working methods infinitely more involving than the film itself (I can't wait to watch the making of). Do his other films rely on a more restrained palette of effects and methods? I really think that aspect (so self-conscious and distancing) hurt the film as a viewing experience.

milozauckerman (miloaukerman), Sunday, 28 November 2004 10:17 (nineteen years ago) link

I ended up very much preferring Cowards to Saddest... and still prefer Odilon Redon to both.

Eric H. (Eric H.), Sunday, 28 November 2004 18:50 (nineteen years ago) link

three years pass...

Saw this last night, and thought it was amazing. I wonder if the discussion here doesn't somehow focus itself too much on Maddin and style -- a lot of the things I was responding to in this actually did come from the writing, ideas, content, and performances, and (with this being the first Maddin film I've watched) I was thrilled to see how much his style doesn't distance you from that stuff at all.

nabisco, Thursday, 31 July 2008 19:01 (fifteen years ago) link

I tried watching this recently and couldn't get through it. I probably should've stuck with it but the faux early film styling was irritating, mostly because it wasn't very convincing. is that supposed to be part of the point? maybe I should take a run at cowards bend the knee.

Edward III, Thursday, 31 July 2008 19:05 (fifteen years ago) link

define "convincing"... other film styles are just as artifice-laden as his, they're just what you're used to.

Dr Morbius, Thursday, 31 July 2008 19:40 (fifteen years ago) link

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0293113/

^^ really beautiful!! shot on dv, if i remember right, making the 'silent movie' stylization even more present, obvious and knowing, but the seamlessness of it renders it transparent, yeah

goole, Thursday, 31 July 2008 19:46 (fifteen years ago) link

Beer legs!

kate78, Thursday, 31 July 2008 19:47 (fifteen years ago) link

define "convincing"... other film styles are just as artifice-laden as his, they're just what you're used to.

"convincing" meaning he could've done a better job of emulating the older production styles he's obviously striving to reproduce. I don't mind fakery, just make it good fakery. it seemed half-assed, like seeing a cheap commercial that tries to look like the 50s by shooting video in b&w. maybe the lack of total committment is supposed to provide some intentional brechtian distance, but it would be a lot more impressive if the film actually convinced me it was shot in the 1920s. why not go all out and actually use a hand cranked camera?

or maybe this was just the wrong place to start.

Edward III, Thursday, 31 July 2008 20:12 (fifteen years ago) link

He does used hand cranked cameras all the time, I thought.

But I think "being inspired by" and "trying to reproduce faithfully" are two entirely different things.

Casuistry, Friday, 1 August 2008 15:07 (fifteen years ago) link

Apparently I missed my brief chance to see My Winnipeg here. Dammit.

Casuistry, Friday, 1 August 2008 15:15 (fifteen years ago) link


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