People Who Live In Suburbs: Classy, Icky, or Dudes?

probably a stupid question, but isn't surface runoff due to concrete a pretty big pollution concern as well? wouldn't this problem increase with bigger, more dense cities?

Not if they used permeable paving wisely! Well, that wouldn't completely eliminate the problem, but there are ways to help minimize it.

I've wondered how permeable pavement is affected by freezing and thawing. Jon, any knowledge? It seems like a porous material would crack more easily.

lol architects. my friend who is supposed to help me with my new garage/driveway project was musing about using permeable. not really price-practical at that level

they used it in the parking lot of a winery he designed but I think they fucked up and didn't let it cure long enough, or it got too wet

big dense cities seem hot and awful

you're dense hot and awful

I've wondered how permeable pavement is affected by freezing and thawing. Jon, any knowledge? It seems like a porous material would crack more easily.

Unfortunately there haven't been a lot of permeable concrete installations in northern climates that have really tested that, but it definitely is a huge drawback at this point and part of why it hasn't largely caught on in the north. Certainly an option in warmer climates though.

exactly how long is it going to be until we get to live in one of these things:

http://www.geocities.jp/gotyamankai/pic/launch_arco.png

2050 iirc? u need microwave and fission power first

lol the wikipedia article for arcology gives the las vegas strip as an example

I think we might have to wait longer than 2050

in the meanwhile I'm gonna start a farm on the roof of the Monte Carlo

a money farm

http://lawreview.law.pitt.edu/issues/68/68.4/Hall.pdf

good overview on how zoning basically fucked this country, comparison to more enlightened french zoning system starts on pg 936

also I haven't read this yet but ryan avent is pretty top notch both on economic and urban issues, this will be more than worth $2:

http://www.amazon.com/Gated-City-Kindle-Single-ebook/dp/B005KGATLO

hmmm my gf wants us to move to what I consider suburbs bur which for her is just a quieter and more residential area of the city (indeed it would take me 15m by metro to get to the city center). When/where does suburbia start in your view?

best buy sighting
a stretch of a half mile in which there is a chilis, red robin, and olive garden
dress shirts are two sizes too big

homes with garages, convenient freeway access, lack of sidewalks (depending on age of suburb), lawns

there's never a strict cut-off, there's a spectrum from dense walkable urbanism to suburban sprawl. and even that sorta depends on the country, and you live in belgium, right? if you can get downtown on the metro in 15m, you're somewhere that's considerably more urban than 95% of america - even if it seems feels like the suburbs to someone used to euro-style urban areas.

there's a difference between using suburb in this sense (100% car-oriented low density area) and using it to mean 'primarily residential area outside of the city center'. in european metropolitan areas these suburbs are almost always designed much better (denser, don't have lawns as big as their houses, narrow roads, actual transit options) than their equivalent here. you can live in a european 'suburb' and still have a less suburban lifestyle than living in an american urban area.

there's a spectrum from dense walkable urbanism to suburban sprawl.

Not even a spectrum -- to a large extent the dimensions along which people measure "suburbanness" vary independently; e.g. I have a garage and a lawn as does every residence near me. I can be on the freeway by car in 5 mins. but downtown by bike in 10. 3 minutes walking and I can be at the local diner, one of two coffeehouses, the public library, or Trader Joe's.

yeah I mean I agree, that was mostly just in response to someone asking if they were moving to 'the suburbs'

I think the walkscore (http://www.walkscore.com) of various places generally has a pretty good correlation w/ how 'urban'/'suburban' it feels, and I'd imagine you have a pretty high one, lawn and garage aside

Sometimes lately I have this recurring thought that I'm a bit shamed of -- "Fuck this place, we should just move to the suburbs." Part of it is definitely having a baby on a way, which seems so predictable in a way that I never thought would happen to me. But I also just get sick of the crush, the ugliness, the encroached feeling. I think the suburb I have in my mind's eye isn't really like a real suburb though.

I'm afraid you're going to have to move to wherever, exactly, it is that jjusten lives.

Also, assume that you'll need to buy or lease two cars immediately.

We've managed to make it in a big bad suburb with only one car or just over four years now, of course our place also has a walkscore of 72, which isn't so bad. Unfortunately it looks like the imminent arrival of our first child is going to force us into a second car. Logistically there is just no way I can be away at project sites two hours away from home with our only vehicle in the event of an emergency. I'm actually pretty happy we've made it this long with just one.

i would like to live in a beautiful house in the country

in better planned parts of the world (/streetcar era america) you could live in an inner ring suburb without having to buy 2 cars or even 1 car

so it's not really your fault, I mean it's a little bit your fault, but it's mostly america's fault

Also, Hurting, you'll have to mow your lawn, every week, like clockwork, or the HOA will file a grievance and fine you money. Ditto if you don't fertilize. Ditto if you don't vet your fence/color/height/brickwork/mailbox with them. Before the first winter you'll find out that your chimney needs repointing on the outside and re-lining on the inside, which will cost $8000, so that fireplace won't be much of a selling point at that point. If it's not the chimney, it'll be the roof. If it's not the roof, your town will get hit by a tropical storm and your basement will flood, along with all the records you're storing down there because the nursery was the first priority and your "listening den" went to the back burner.

Have I made it sound like a total drag yet?

Also, Hurting, you'll have to mow your lawn, every week, like clockwork, or the HOA will file a grievance and fine you money. Ditto if you don't fertilize. Ditto if you don't vet your fence/color/height/brickwork/mailbox with them.

Okay none of this has ever been true in any suburb I've ever been in. There are plenty of fair targets to paint on suburban life without making them up! Yes, some of them do have zoning restrictions regarding building height, fence locations, etc. But, guess what? Every big city has these too!

Bother, you're spoiling my fun.

The thing about the chimney, though, that's totally real.

in nyc there are plenty of compromises (further out parts of the boroughs, hudson county) where you could have a relatively quiet home life - a single-family house, maybe a garage and a lawn, whatever. and you could still live on public transit. it doesn't have to be williamsburg or levittown.

Dude, I don't know if anyone can afford to buy there anymore, but Midwood is TOTALLY nice.

Okay none of this has ever been true in any suburb I've ever been in. There are plenty of fair targets to paint on suburban life without making them up! Yes, some of them do have zoning restrictions regarding building height, fence locations, etc. But, guess what? Every big city has these too!

and it's probably more damaging that the big cities have them, because in doing so they make sprawl pretty much a given

Also, Hurting, you'll have to mow your lawn, every week, like clockwork, or the HOA will file a grievance and fine you money.

haha i am living proof that this is not true

also if you mean Home Owners Association by HOA thats pretty much a condo/gated community thing, that shit would never fly in the regular old suburbs w/o riots.

^^^ otm

oh whoops that right bracket a few posts is me btw.

never checked my walkscore before but i guess it is 60? which seems low?

ha ok well they missed a bunch of stuff now that i looked through the list so that prob explains that

walkscore's not perfect but the maps w/ red to green pretty accurately reflect the urbanism or lackthereof within american cities

never lived in the burbs

if you choose to live in a house w/ an HOA you're really just asking for a miserable life

thankfully you can find a perfectly fine suburban house (like my parents!) w/o having to worry about a HOA

one nominally urban neighborhood i lived in years ago has a walk score of 54 which does seem about right

my la hoods have been in the 86-95 range, one even better than my last nyc place

yeah lots of la is super walkable compared to the rest of the country, people have a lot of misconceptions

walk score at my parents' place is 23!

my house at school was an 82

98 - love my neighborhood

pvmic

I am at my gf's in connecticut right now, and her place is a (surprising?) 92. college town and the location was a big reason she picked this apt.

also if you mean Home Owners Association by HOA thats pretty much a condo/gated community thing, that shit would never fly in the regular old suburbs w/o riots.

Okay I made it all up. Except that I think there are places that aren't gated communities that really do patrol/enforce stuff like this, but prob just the silliest, richest, and most bedroomy of bedroom towns.

walk score at my parents' place is 23!

the house where i grew up has a score of 16, lol.