― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:38 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:39 (twenty years ago) link
― Gear! (Gear!), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:40 (twenty years ago) link
― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:41 (twenty years ago) link
― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:42 (twenty years ago) link
― $$, Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:43 (twenty years ago) link
― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:44 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:45 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:48 (twenty years ago) link
― Colin Beckett (Colin Beckett), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:48 (twenty years ago) link
dude jess they showed you network in film school? i think i will have to pray now
― amateur!st (amateurist), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:49 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:50 (twenty years ago) link
― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:52 (twenty years ago) link
― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:53 (twenty years ago) link
― cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:53 (twenty years ago) link
― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 26 February 2004 21:54 (twenty years ago) link
I think the whole movie is arguably seen through the Holden character's eyes, even if he isn't present, which may explain the perspective.
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:06 (twenty years ago) link
― o. nate (onate), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:12 (twenty years ago) link
― waxyjax (waxyjax), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:32 (twenty years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:55 (twenty years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 26 February 2004 22:56 (twenty years ago) link
― jazz odysseus, Thursday, 26 February 2004 23:09 (twenty years ago) link
It's interesting because he started in TV in the early days. It made him less an "auteur" than a craftsman who is interested in finding the best techiques to convey the film's themes. So he has great knowledge of things like lenses... they mean a lot.
He's also really tuned in to how those techniques work on the subconscious - like in 12 Angry Men (search) how the shots keep getting tighter and tighter so it feels like the ceiling is caving in on the actors. I mean, the whole movie was shot in one room!
Most of his movies from the 80s on are pretty crapola though.
― Aaron W (Aaron W), Thursday, 26 February 2004 23:11 (twenty years ago) link
― s1ocki (slutsky), Thursday, 26 February 2004 23:17 (twenty years ago) link
― gabbneb (gabbneb), Thursday, 26 February 2004 23:23 (twenty years ago) link
― Eric H. (Eric H.), Thursday, 26 February 2004 23:38 (twenty years ago) link
amst could you explain what you mean by this?
this is one of the more readable film threads in a while.
― J.D. (Justyn Dillingham), Friday, 27 February 2004 05:06 (twenty years ago) link
wow, this is just brilliant
roll over robert bresson
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 27 February 2004 10:20 (twenty years ago) link
― Paul Eater (eater), Friday, 27 February 2004 15:40 (twenty years ago) link
-- amateur!st (amateur!s...), February 27th, 2004. (later)
sorry
i mean that is a technique that can be used well and subtly, see 'the silence of the lambs' for an especially clever use of such a device
Seeing as how he made it in 1957 in the US studio system, yes, it's pretty noteworthy. I never said the guy was the greatest filmmaker alive for fuck's sake though. Just chiming in.
― Aaron W (Aaron W), Friday, 27 February 2004 15:56 (twenty years ago) link
― strongo hulkington (dubplatestyle), Friday, 27 February 2004 15:57 (twenty years ago) link
no all i'm saying is that that's a basic filmmaking technique that people used in the 1910s and onward, it's a nice technique and i'm sure there are some who are oblivious to it, but it doesn't really reveal any sort of creative genius on the part of lumet
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 27 February 2004 16:36 (twenty years ago) link
in fact the range of stylistic options 'available' (in the 'have currency' sense) to contemporary hollywood filmmakers is in a certain sense narrower than it was in the 1950s
― amateur!st (amateurist), Friday, 27 February 2004 16:37 (twenty years ago) link
― Adrian (Adrian Langston), Friday, 5 March 2004 04:28 (twenty years ago) link
― Will (will), Friday, 5 March 2004 05:13 (twenty years ago) link
the quality of any of his movies is usually pretty incidental to his involvement.
You don't have to think he's a 'genius' to find this absurd. It's not like he throws the actors onto the set and starts rolling.
Prince of the City, just out on DVD, holds up real well -- more complex and tragic than Serpico. Lumet's comments on the 3 visual styles he used are illuminating.
― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 14:51 (sixteen years ago) link
Hmm.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 14:57 (sixteen years ago) link
and let's just thank God dePalma didn't direct Prince of the City as planned.
― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 15:02 (sixteen years ago) link
I'd like to think that Nancy Allen would fit into the ensemble nicely.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 15:04 (sixteen years ago) link
no, Lindsay Crouse is great in about 4 short scenes as Treat Williams' morose wife.
― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 15:05 (sixteen years ago) link
"The Offence" is pretty powerful. Haven't seen it in a long time tho.
― Tom D., Tuesday, 19 June 2007 15:08 (sixteen years ago) link
Did he do "The Pawnbroker"? Even longer since that's been on telly!
― Tom D., Tuesday, 19 June 2007 15:11 (sixteen years ago) link
"morose" and "Lindsay Crouse" are inseperable.
Re-saw The Verdict a couple of months ago...holds up better than expected, but the victory still seems forced, and the "tragic" ending too determinist.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 15:11 (sixteen years ago) link
well, that's just another Paul Newman comeback movie.
Lumet directed the ILX poll-winning classic Dog Day Afternoon, but perhaps it was pretty incidental to his involvement.
― Dr Morbius, Tuesday, 19 June 2007 19:28 (sixteen years ago) link
Sorry, Morbs -- Treat Williams gives one of the more unwatchable lead performances I've ever seen; however, Jerry Orbach gives his best screen perf. Nice creepy bit by Bob Balaban, pouring Bud in a hotel suite.
Pauline Kael otm: "Treat Williams has a very closed face—the kind of opaque face that is like a brick wall in front of the camera. And that may be why Williams, as a New York City police officer who agrees to be wired and to obtain evidence about corruption in his unit, plays each scene as an acting exercise—going through so much teary, spiritual agony that you want to throw something at him.
― Alfred, Lord Sotosyn, Saturday, 13 October 2007 23:51 (sixteen years ago) link
i always wondered if it was a real bank!
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 16 July 2023 05:06 (nine months ago) link
I think it was like an empty warehouse space that they dressed up as a bank.
Furthermore (if anyone cares) I saw the film at a cinema located three blocks from where the film was shot (The Nitehawk Cinema in Park Slope, Brooklyn). And FURTHERmore there is a hot dog joint more or less across the street from where the “bank” was, called Dog Day Afternoon.
― Josefa, Sunday, 16 July 2023 05:13 (nine months ago) link
As I've posted before, I always find Dog Day's first half-plus to be much stronger--can't remember at what point it starts to slow down for me. If you haven't, try to see The Dog (on Kanopy, I think).
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3091304/
― clemenza, Sunday, 16 July 2023 05:14 (nine months ago) link
yeah i need to watch that, may give it a whirl tonight!
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 16 July 2023 05:44 (nine months ago) link
It really is a great movie to see in Brooklyn. (I saw it at BAM in 2009, not long after I moved into the neighborhood.)
And yes, Dog Day Afternoon is hands down my favorite Lumet film. I think his filmography can be a little all over the place, but even when the films themselves are a bit lacking, he usually gets the best out of his performers.
My other favorites:
The TV production of The Iceman Cometh - Jason Robards's performance is legendary and rightfully so. One of the best I've ever seen.
Long Day's Journey Into Night - Another O'Neill classic, both plays mean a lot to me, and they're both done so well. Again, a legendary cast and rightfully so.
Prince of the City - saw this again after Treat Williams's death, he actually did a Q&A for this movie at Metrograph several years ago. Really nice guy. A good double feature with Serpico, but as wonderful as Pacino's performance may be, I actually think Prince of the City is the better film.
The Verdict - I thought this was just okay when I first saw it in high school, but I revisited it during the pandemic and was surprised by how much more it resonated. Lumet's great theme is institutional corruption, and it's richly detailed here. It made me think of the moral dilemmas that every law graduate I know just went through - what to do with a law degree, which typically loses out to status and financial considerations - and I get the sense that those problems grew exponentially during the '80s all the way to the present day. The film came out in 1982 and you see this already taking root - it's not just Newman trying to redeem himself and win for his client, he's also fighting against a future that's already been lost, where so much of the best and the brightest aren't going to make the world a better place but cash in, pay off their student loans and move on to better material lives.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 16 July 2023 06:30 (nine months ago) link
Should clarify, I don't think Dog Day Afternoon is all over the place, it's perfect the way it is.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 16 July 2023 06:31 (nine months ago) link
ok i watched The Dog documentary finally and holy shit. what a…i don’t wanna say piece of shit but yeah maybe piece of shit? proof that if you tell yourself something enough you can just force it to be true.
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 16 July 2023 07:43 (nine months ago) link
the real hero of the documentary is Frank’s brother Tony <3
― werewolves of laudanum (VegemiteGrrl), Sunday, 16 July 2023 07:47 (nine months ago) link
I've probably asked this before: no Lumet poll? I'm sure DDA would win, but there should be one.
I don't remember seeing Night Falls on Manhattan when it came out ('96), but I must have--can't imagine skipping it. Lumet's fifth-last film...not good at all. He's remaking Serpico for the third or fourth time. Ron Liebman, Andy Garcia, and Ian Holm each get one big hysterically overwrought speech. The Garcia-Olin romance comes out of nowhere--you look away from the screen for a minute, and suddenly they're deep into a relationship that serves no purpose whatsoever.
The only interest is seeing James Gandolfini and Dominic Chianese in the same film three years before The Sopranos. No scenes together, unfortunately.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 05:37 (seven months ago) link
I remember Ian Holm giving his typically great performance and Liebman just behind him. Garcia gave his typically terrible performarnce.
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 09:21 (seven months ago) link
I remember seeing NFIM in the cinema and falling asleep. The last Lumet I saw at home was the Anderson Tapes, which I think is underrated. It’s slightly less histrionic than usual, has a satisfyingly grizzly 1970s ending, and Connery is always interesting (to me) when he stops pretending to be likeable.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 10:54 (seven months ago) link
Garcia should stick to animation work.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 10:55 (seven months ago) link
no Lumet poll?
The Wiz would be getting at least one vote
― fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 13:45 (seven months ago) link
Assumed you'd be Network.
― clemenza, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 13:48 (seven months ago) link
around 3-5 votes will come in for Network, only one person will fess up to voting for it (me)
― the world is your octopus (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 13:56 (seven months ago) link
https://i.giphy.com/media/11mYSZihIu0q40/giphy.webp
― fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 13:57 (seven months ago) link
https://i.imgur.com/uz3HzzJ.gif
― the dreaded dependent claus (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 14:06 (seven months ago) link
NFOM is good not bad I think but it does feel like a Lumet greatest hits. It's got nothing on Q&A, Prince of the City, or Serpico as far as his police corruption pics. I've got zero memory of Garcia in this one, but remember Holm and Gandolfini really nailing their roles.
― omar little, Wednesday, 6 September 2023 14:23 (seven months ago) link
Look, I'll put my vote behind Network if the moderator agrees to leave off Before the Devil Knows You're Dead
― fair but so uncool beliefs here (Eric H.), Wednesday, 6 September 2023 14:30 (seven months ago) link
i just watched before the devil knows yr dead
as the film gang here are always wrong abt movies i thought i might enjoy it -- lots of ppl shouting and cursing for two hours 👍🏽 👍🏽 👍🏽 -- but boy what a dumb movie
maybe the gang knows best after all
― mark s, Tuesday, 21 November 2023 21:23 (five months ago) link
Let that be a lesson to you
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 22 November 2023 15:22 (five months ago) link
Ethan Hawke's accent is a poem.
― stuffing your suit pockets with cold, stale chicken tende (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Wednesday, 22 November 2023 15:33 (five months ago) link