Pitchfork's Chris Ott takes No Prisoners

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I don't really want to intrude, but I just wanted to say thank you... to actually believe that Pitchfork has more readers than spin is really funny, and I will cherish that for quite awhile.

Daron Gardner (Daron Gardner), Friday, 26 September 2003 18:35 (twenty years ago) link

to actually believe that Pitchfork has more readers than spin is really funny, and I will cherish that for quite awhile.

To ‘clear that up,’ in August, PFM had more unique hits than Spin has monthly subscribers. (But this, of course, does not mean that PFM has more readers because that stat doesn’t take into account Spin’s newsstand sales, comp list recipients, and that multiple ppl read each circulated copy of a magazine.)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 18:56 (twenty years ago) link

Aside from that, unique hits are not the same as unique users. And unique users are the best comparison to print readership. If you come to a website on two different days, that counts as two unique hits (if you come back to the same website on the same day, ie during the same browser session, that's just one hit.) Comparing hits to print readers is like saying that every day I open the magazine counts as an extra reader.

The website I work for gets around 20 million unique hits a month. And it has around 6 million users a month. Big difference.

auditor, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:04 (twenty years ago) link

I can't believe no one's mentioned Worthington's Law, the more money you make, the better you are. This translates into all areas where more of something (readership) = better!

Andy Beckerman, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

Oops--600,000 users a month! Even bigger difference.

auditor, Friday, 26 September 2003 19:05 (twenty years ago) link

Oh, sorry, I did mean unique users/viewers, not hits. (thx, auditor!) This tricky Interweb terminology! (I should leave this marketing/business stuff to other pitchfork types who are more familiar with that end of things...)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 19:09 (twenty years ago) link

And I'm guessing these comparison figures don't take into account all the people who go to spinmagazine.com either, right?

chuck, Friday, 26 September 2003 20:51 (twenty years ago) link

most people just go to pitchfork cos they forgot the web address for suicidegirls anyway

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Friday, 26 September 2003 20:56 (twenty years ago) link

And I'm guessing these comparison figures don't take into account all the people who go to spinmagazine.com either, right?

No, of course not. I'm not trying to manipulate these numbers to 'prove' PFM is bigger than Spin, just explaining in the face of this confusion and derision the root of that claim (and why, yes, it is flawed). (And I'm probably being defensive in the process, but I personally don't find anything healthy about these sorts of pissing contests. I'm more than happy to defend the site when I think it's being unfairly characterized, but floating misinformation as proof of PFM's size and 'superiority,' I don't find to be helpful to altering the site's image. That's not meant to be a slight toward Chris. We just approach things differently.)

scott pl. (scott pl.), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:14 (twenty years ago) link

That's okay, we wouldn't mind if you slighted Chris actually. What procedures do the Pitchfork people use to disclipline their unruly scribes ?

Vic (Vic), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:27 (twenty years ago) link

sorry i can't read the whole thread. but i must say that most of the albums mr ott critizises are bullshit. i am not a fan of his writing but i'd think that his taste is pretty much ok.

alex in mainhattan (alex63), Friday, 26 September 2003 22:32 (twenty years ago) link

That's not the point, Alex.

Alex in NYC (vassifer), Saturday, 27 September 2003 14:28 (twenty years ago) link

for those of you who wonder why I don't write so much for Pitchfork anymore, the answer is: Chris Ott.

For the record, I want it to be known he singlehandedly makes me ashamed to write for the site. Sure, Ryan's opinions can make me shudder, but Ryan is a great, funny guy. Ott's incapable of holding a civil conversation. He loves to insult you, then come back for a big hug of "aww, I'm just kidding. I just like to rile." He loves that word "rile."

brent_D, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 01:56 (twenty years ago) link

!

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 01:58 (twenty years ago) link

you don't wanna RILE me, mutherfucker! Don't you RILE me!
http://movieweb.com/movie/runronnie/co2.jpg

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:06 (twenty years ago) link

I'm a hurricane nestled inside a box of tsunamis TIMES TRIPLICATE!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link

holy moly! (to brent)

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:07 (twenty years ago) link

Chris Ott canceled my friendster request. I'm riiiileed!

His writing has such a boner to be British.

Carey (Carey), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:09 (twenty years ago) link

i bet he likes orwell.

(and hitchens)

Sterling Clover (s_clover), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:17 (twenty years ago) link

his boner has such a boner to be british ( 4" > 3")

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:18 (twenty years ago) link

wow. evidently ILX loves to rile too!

Anthony Miccio (Anthony Miccio), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:21 (twenty years ago) link

sassy!

cinniblount (James Blount), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:23 (twenty years ago) link

brent d rocks. he's one funny ass mutherfukker, as david cross would say. his sonic youth review made my year one year.

scott seward, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 02:37 (twenty years ago) link

Even though I ragged on him for Blur ( ;) ), I wish Brent still wrote for PFM as much as possible, personally. His White Stripes review is probably my favorite thing that has been published on the site all year.

scott pl. (scott pl.), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 03:30 (twenty years ago) link

hes 28! i figured him for much older from the writing, i guess this means he is being schticky rather than bitter?

("who i want to meet: fewer people. interests: hating people, making enemies"), so i guess thats all quite sweet really, if a little try hard

hes a friend of maura too, is everyone in the world a friend of maura?

... (gareth), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 06:00 (twenty years ago) link

My name is KID OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!

I gotta say, I think Ott's stuff withstands these criticisms for the most part. My sense has always been that he's insightful and I think the notion that he's contemptuous of his audience is a red herring. I think he's just deeply invested, and I don't mean in persona or cred or any of that, I mean in music. There's room for disagreement, but the premise of most of these criticisms seems to be that disagreement vitiates the exercise.

Hey, but that's just me. I realize the furor has died down but I'm surprised to see that it once was so ... furious.

smarty mcsmartyson, Tuesday, 30 September 2003 16:05 (twenty years ago) link

I'm surprised it HAS died down again given recent posts.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:43 (twenty years ago) link

this argument should be settled like this:
http://www.scifilm.org/tv/tvgraphics/st-amoktime.jpg

Bob Shaw (Bob Shaw), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 18:52 (twenty years ago) link

Vulcans fight like this.

Ned Raggett (Ned), Tuesday, 30 September 2003 19:11 (twenty years ago) link

I take that back. Ott accepted my bid to be his friendster. All is well.

Carey (Carey), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 12:09 (twenty years ago) link

My God what a long droopy arsed thread.

I'm fairly objective, because ignorant of the rivalries on show here. And I have this to say: Chris Ott comes out on the high ground. The detractors, and there are so many, mainly come over as petty and secretly rather admiring. I think the Pitchfork piece is entertaining. And of course it's idiosyncratic!! Ott deserves his props and can take heart that such a long droopy arsed thread was pushed out in response to his piece. If it was that awful would anyone have bothered?

mick hall (mick hall), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 13:55 (twenty years ago) link

Mick, did you notice that a large chunk of the thread kind of has nothing to do with Ott or his article?

Dan Perry (Dan Perry), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 14:15 (twenty years ago) link


Mick Hall:

Chris Ott comes out on the high ground.

Chris Ott:

Cut the wolfing pal, I know plenty of people who know and revile your fat, frustrated ass. Let's stop pretending what gets said on the Internet is reality, we both box in the same class. The pseudo-intellectual coddling that goes on around this place is just homoerotic. When will you accept yourselves?

hmmm....

stevie (stevie), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 15:30 (twenty years ago) link

+|-|!Z +|-||234|) = /<-L4M3!@#!@#!@#!@#!@~#

Pashmina (Pashmina), Wednesday, 1 October 2003 16:19 (twenty years ago) link

If nothing else, he deserves this thread for these sentences:
The Constantines are resurrecting rock music from the frigid, faggy dungeon currently overrun with a thousand self-obsessed, coke-snorting keyboard players. Nailing fashion victims to the wall, these tireless, traditionally bent cads effortlessly reclaim the sexiness and sexuality of rock rhythms, wresting abandon from effeminate black-and-dayglo pretenders, righteously reacquainting us with the filthy, sinister roots of the medium.

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:01 (twenty years ago) link

god that's...wow...

gabbo giftington (dubplatestyle), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:03 (twenty years ago) link

"the medium"

Mr. Diamond (diamond), Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:17 (twenty years ago) link

didn't ott once run a review with several scathing asides about the wedding present ?

what crap.

mike bott, Thursday, 2 October 2003 03:45 (twenty years ago) link

Note to rock writers: "faggy" isn't always the best adjective to use

Vic (Vic), Thursday, 2 October 2003 04:59 (twenty years ago) link

use "cigarettey" instead

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 2 October 2003 05:03 (twenty years ago) link

or "smokey"

cinniblount (James Blount), Thursday, 2 October 2003 05:10 (twenty years ago) link

heh i should have read it in context (i assumed the meaning was what Vic was referring to rather than what was actually meant)

the surface noise (electricsound), Thursday, 2 October 2003 05:12 (twenty years ago) link

you people are high.

twelve, Friday, 10 October 2003 19:41 (twenty years ago) link

I have Brent's fan letters framed on my wall. This thread will probably join them.

Chris Ott (Chris Ott), Monday, 13 October 2003 14:39 (twenty years ago) link

that's sweet

cinniblount (James Blount), Monday, 13 October 2003 14:46 (twenty years ago) link

Chris Ott is a smarmy, snarky fool, and a shoddy researcher. He frequently takes completely unnecessary personal jabs at people. He dismisses entire genres with sweeping gestures. I think he thinks this will make him Lester Bangs or something. His writing lacks insight and passion. And yes, I'm disturbed by the homophobic undertones.

One time I attempted to point out some factual errors and influences he apparently missed in one of his reviews, and he told me that i displayed "a complete lack of knowledge of popular music of the last 40 years". It was pricelessly funny. (Incidentally, in that same review, he went off on a fact-impaired rant about an entire genre and didn't actually say a damn thing about the music on the album in question.)

As for the feature in question: I'm solidly in the camp of "Why Bother?" La, la, la, let's make a list of things I don't like and share it with the whole world! I don't like things, la la la!

This whole "we have more readers than Spin" thing strikes me as pretty funny. As if that was the point. As if that was a measure of quality or success! Jessica Simpson sells more albums than Mecca Normal, does that reflect on the quality of the product?

Pitchfork is increasingly irrelevant, at least in the world of college radio that I inhabit. I read it only for the news. Every colleague I've talked to feels the same way.

Kevin Erickson, Thursday, 16 October 2003 10:05 (twenty years ago) link

But the news is the smarmiest, most outdated, condescending, indier-than-thou section on the whole site!!

Mike Ouderkirk (Mike Ouderkirk), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:11 (twenty years ago) link

yeah, chris has a totally different take on nearly everything, and he's arrogant and outspoken, but don't you people have any other distractions? shit is boring at this point.

s>c>, Friday, 17 October 2003 08:23 (twenty years ago) link

"the world of college radio I inhabit" = poss. not the whole world

Andrew L (Andrew L), Friday, 17 October 2003 08:29 (twenty years ago) link


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