Drugs, Murder and Mexico

Right now it's really unsafe to even drive into there, I've heard plenty of stories of cars/buses just randomly getting shot up on the street, it's one of the worst places in the world to be right now. On the plus side, property there is practically free. It's surprising that all this stuff is happening primarily on border towns. The scary thing is that previously 'safe' areas down south are now getting all this violence. I'd heard that Merida was mostly free of drug violence, because that was where the drug dealers families lived! Last time I was there, armored tanks filled the streets with enough ammunition to destroy an entire city block. It's terrifying getting interrogated by a police officer in a language you don't fully understand when the guy is holding an assault rifle and is almost certainly corrupt.

is coke still huge? i knew a bunch of ppl who snorted it/smoked crack in 2001-02, but afaict I know very very few habitual users these days...

― i'm hearing Bowie sing this, and it's the best single of 1985 (Drugs A. Money), Monday, September 26, 2011 11:37 AM (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

(of course I'm a lot less in touch w/ the drug scene these days...)

― i'm hearing Bowie sing this, and it's the best single of 1985 (Drugs A. Money), Monday, September 26, 2011 11:37 AM (37 minutes ago) Bookmark

A few years back, when I was 25 or so, my roommate and I were both ex-potheads. We were talking about the old days when we were 18, lol. I remember telling her something like "yeah, but I guess once you get to be our age people don't smoke pot anymore." WRONG. Just talking about observations you might have if you're out-of-touch with the drug scene.

I know lots of people who still smoke pot; a (not-quite-so-overwhelming-anymore) majority of the people I know still smoke pot. Some of them are on pills too, maybe even a few are still on meth...I mean, most of the folks I associated with are the working poor, so that probably explains a lot.

Just seemed like you guys know people irl who still do coke pretty regularly, whereas I don't (or if they do, I don't know about it).

Oh yeah, I know what you were saying. I have no idea who does what among most of my friends and acquaintances, just because I really don't party at all anymore. But if there's one thing I'm pretty sure of, it's that coke has not gone away.

look at any line outside any club, those people are coked to the gills

here's some ILX0rs that love cocaine

yeah i dont go to clubs Shakey; but still, good to know.

I dont know how much coke there is in the Midwest but I always assumed it was more of a southern thing. Here it's mostly prescription drugs that everyone is obsessed with.

it's so deeply ingrained in the culture now I kinda don't know how you would ever get rid of it - it's one of those things that codes as "glamorous"/"dangerous"/something you do if you're "young" and "wild" and "rich"

xp

much love for aerosmith as always but serious lolz at his "don't get all super-judgmental about cocaine when i am sure you have blood on your hands from SOMETHING in your life" stance on that thread. like i am pretty okay with "drawing distinctions" between the coke industry the shady and indefensible practices of certain aspects of food production because i have to eat to fucking stay alive, though i am not always happy with the choices available to me food-wise thanks to location or finances or hell just laziness, which makes me complicit, sure, but otoh i am pretty sure everyone who pays for a completely inessential-to-life mild powder-based buzz is helping to fund the mass murder of children for their fleeting pleasure, including me, back in the days when i did coke.

otoh i'd be pretty okay if humanity dried up and blew right off the planet, just for anyone who wants to beat me to the "well you dont HAVE to eat, either" zing. what can i say, life much like cocain use, a habit's a habit's a habit.

cokehead would say you're just addicted to food

learn to photosynthesize, asshole

I couldn't read Bowden's book. I hated the way it was written, or at least how the first few dozen pages were written.

One of the (naive?) best ways to help Mexico is to vacation there and help underscore that tourism dollars come easier than drug war money. There are vast hunks of the country relatively unaffected by the violence, at least for now.

strongo otm.

exactly where are the safe parts right now?

I couldn't read Bowden's book. I hated the way it was written, or at least how the first few dozen pages were written.

yeah, I had a similar experience but got about halfway through. writing style doesn't change drastically.

of course, I was hoping for a more historical breakdown and that just wasn't what the book was going for.

xpost It's a really big country, so the safe parts would be, I presume, most of Mexico. The worst stuff is by the border. But the Yucatan Peninsula is super safe, for example.

I dunno if you read my post upthread, but the Yucatan is definitely starting to get some of this. I was there last year for my now-wife's graduation and the party was cut short b/c there were threats to capture and kill people there. Some of her family members have been followed and have been threatened kidnapping if they haven't come up with some ridiculous sum of money. Most of it is just, threats but there have been a number of murders there and my wife fears that things are getting worse. As I mentioned, when I was there they were putting tanks on the streets and had a bunch of armed checkpoints on the highways. Merida was supposed to be a "safe haven" because apparently some gangs had families there, but I don't know how true that is now.

Yeah, Murder City is not historical -- like most of his books, it's pretty narrative in structure (I guess at the expense of dry facts?). I like the way he gives specific examples instead of blasting the reader with aggregate stats.

There are a lot of things I wish I could contribute to this thread but I just don't really feel like it's a good idea in a public forum.

but otoh i am pretty sure everyone who pays for a completely inessential-to-life mild powder-based buzz is helping to fund the mass murder of children for their fleeting pleasure

this does get kinda complicated though, bc people get pretty into cocaine, to a point at which the fact that it is inessential is not really relevant or can't be gauged. still otm, just saying. the whole thing does make you wonder whether a more mature attitude towards drugs would mean that there could be a conversation about it or an attempt to regulate it or for people to be better aware of the genealogy of it, but that obviously is not going to happen anytime soon.

also:

I've heard plenty of stories of cars/buses just randomly getting shot up on the street, it's one of the worst places in the world to be right now. On the plus side, property there is practically free.

lol

xpost Not the Yucatan, inland, but the Yucatan Peninsula, Cancun and south. I've been down there three of the last four years and it's been sleepy and safe. Going back in January, I'll let you know if it seems newly dangerous.

xp: oh, no, i didn't want that to come off as some kinda zero tolerance NO SYMPATHY FOR THE POOR WIDDLE ADDICTS thing.

but also i mean no one on that thread who was like "fuck yeah lines" on that thread struck me as someone who'd boosted their mom's tv to support their habit or anything. during my years as a nightlife reporter (cough) i knew a LOT of casual snorters and they were very much high-functioning it's-just-a-party types.

Veracruz is all right as long as you don't mind the occasional 35-body traffic jam.

http://www.travelweekly.com/uploadedFiles/MEXICOMAP4.pdf

there are twists and turns on the path from "buying cocaine from a bouncer at a club" to the money ending up in the hands of the people who are cutting the heads off anti-cartel bloggers, but the path certainly eventually leads there. i basically think that everything people do in life should be regarded from a certain moral standpoint but generally speaking i think there's no way in the current system for someone to be a moral cocaine dealer (or user, i suppose.) at least users can claim ignorance in many if not most cases.

Map of unsafe areas in the US (in grey):

http://www.va4u.com/images/maps/namerica/usa-blue.gif

and despite the fact that i haven't done any drugs except a couple of joints in the last four, five years, i still drink like a fish, so i hope it also didn't come off as attacking relaxation-via-mood/mind-altering-substances or even drugs as an idea. i'm no teetotaler. it's just that i don't tend to worry that, whatever the shit-ness of the industry, anheuser busch isn't gunning down school kids on the streets of delaware because they're worried dogfish head is cutting into their market saturation.

Phew, Josh. I live in one of the light-blue areas.

ha don't worry strongo, you didn't sound judgemental at all, i just have a bad habit of trying to coerce people to insert unnecessary caveats into short paragraphs in which they weren't really needed. you can still reasonably draw a line between a lot of people for whom it *is* a recreational choice, probably, sure.

but also i mean no one on that thread who was like "fuck yeah lines" on that thread struck me as someone who'd boosted their mom's tv to support their habit or anything. during my years as a nightlife reporter (cough) i knew a LOT of casual snorters and they were very much high-functioning it's-just-a-party types.

the unfortunate thing is that historically people in this country who have been against mind-altering substances have come across as (or have actually been) clownish prohibition-era throwbacks who would just as soon steal my precious beer fridge as they would seal off the drug tunnels into america, which means that anytime i make this sort of argument i feel like i'm got the ghost of nancy reagan nodding in agreement over my shoulder, which makes me feel weird to say the least. yes i realize she's not dead.

xpost Not the Yucatan, inland, but the Yucatan Peninsula, Cancun and south. I've been down there three of the last four years and it's been sleepy and safe. Going back in January, I'll let you know if it seems newly dangerous.

The place I'm talking about is Merida ("the white city"), which is in the Peninsula isn't it?

dont know why anyone is doing coke when adderall is so plentiful, easy to get, more or less legal and not murdering mexicans

xpost I believe Merida is about 4 hours from Cancun, for reference. So it's pretty far from the coast/beach stuff.

Some U.S. arrests in the consulate-employee assassination:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/22/us-crime-usa-mexico-idUSTRE78L7JF20110922

dont know why anyone is doing coke when adderall is so plentiful, easy to get, more or less legal and not murdering mexicans

ppl who 'do' adderall are nerds, is the thing

lawl

just want 2 thank omar little for his contributions to this thread & the other linked one, I think its a v important point & one that i think is v on point

like jess im more of a drinker fwiw

(subtext of that being, not a teetotaler either but i think it entirely makes sense to recognize the horrible consequences of supporting this industry)

well duh (re: consequences of supporting this industry)
who doesn't know that? does this mean that the tide has finally turned against the "it's a party" people?

i was just clarifying why i bothered mentioning i drink lol

dont know why anyone is doing coke when adderall is so plentiful, easy to get, more or less legal and not murdering mexicans

― max, Monday, September 26, 2011 6:22 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ppl who 'do' adderall are nerds, is the thing

― this display name must in some way reference laurel halo (Lamp), Monday, September 26, 2011 7:07 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

^^ yeah why not just do nodoze and stay up all night watching monty python

or Mountain Dew and Family Guy?

if everyone who paid attention to this kinda news + considered themselves a 'kinda ethical consumer' stopped doing coke, would that be enough to change the market dynamic in any meaningful way? I'm gonna say probably not but I don't know how you'd even attempt to measure something like that.

this is like recycling your bottles or making sure you don't waste electricity or whatever - all things I endorse but I don't pretend like they're really 'making a difference'...real change can only come via national policy. but I mean, if you are someone who bothers to recycle your bottles, turn off the lights etc. and you still do drugs w/o really considering where they come from...well, that seems like a weird way to go through life.

― iatee, Sunday, September 25, 2011 12:55 PM (3 days ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah must say that im always a little suspicious of peoples motivations in these situations re recycling or not doing coke or w/e - they often seem to have more of an appetite for condemning the actions of others than attempting to grapple w/the complexity of the situation or like acknowledge moral failings in their own lives

exactly where are the safe parts right now?

i lived in toluca from january to july and apart from one incident with a friend of mine getting shaken down by cops; i had no hassle. i travelled to oaxaca, queretaro, guadalajara, guanajuato and puerto escondido and had no hassle there either.

and im a lil surprised everyones all 'omg when will this violence ever end prob never' i mean its a direct result of a government thats more democratic and prosperous than its been before attempting to root out the endemic corruption and influence of the drug gangs - like whats happening is awful but if mexico is gonna continue to grow you cant have basically quasi governmental drug organizations playing such a prominent role in the country - and you know theres no way theyre going to go quietly - when you have huge malevolent forces in a country their reckoning is often v painful see like slavery and the civil war or w/e - of course the u.s. could just legalize coke and everything would be cool lol

yeah ive heard the violence is only really bad in like 5 of 30 or however many states xp

it should be noted that however bad violence in mexico is now it still pales in comparison to many central american and caribbean countries

im sure these stats are quite unreliable but fwiw http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate