Drugs, Murder and Mexico

you can just do a search for my name and review the whole thread its p easy

― ice cr?m, Thursday, September 29, 2011 12:06 AM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

im asking which particular post struck you as being so over the top in its need to pat itself on the back.

― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:09 AM (5 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ok at yr request ive reviewed and the first one was just agreeing w/iatee who wasnt even directing anything at anyone in this thread so far as i can tell

i dont think anyone here has argued that they were about to cause change -- most of us i thought agreed w/ iatee? -- but that if u are aware of the harm an activity causes at this level & continue to do it anyway then in my particular world i might not consider u a particularly commendable person, and i might say so, on ilx, as im doing right now, and expect that this not be met w/ the consternation of an apparent nihilist who thinks taking a moral stand is pointless

post the number of times you've done cocaine here

if an activity is causing harm then by definition ceasing it would end the harm thereby causing change, no?

a couple dozen maybe?

always preferred speed tbh

the consternation of an apparent nihilist who thinks taking a moral stand is pointless

― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Thursday, September 29, 2011 1:16 AM (4 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

its v strange how people often dont think youre engaging w/their arguments honestly around here

fwiw i do think taking pointless moral stands is pointless #nihilism

ice cream do you think its possible to engage honestly with arguments on the internet

nah n/m nothing matters...

did you know napolean ate with aluminum utensils

I thought "apparent" made it obv I was willing to give u the benefit of the doubt but that this was how your argument was coming across since it appeared to not actually be about anything except that other ppl are dumber than u

And after they post
They go lookin' for the dopeman

That last post read poorly, but basically I just don't get jhos argument so I was using the "universe is meaningless" stuff bcuz I don't rlly know how else to interpret it ... Obv we bring our own judgments onto others all the time. As jho did in this thread. And sometimes the stuff we judge them on isnt rlly that big a deal relative to the world's suffering. For me tho when the link to the horrors of it is so clear, and the cost to me so minimal, I feel reasonably comfortable being "self righteous" about this particular issue

http://ddeubel.edublogs.org/files/2010/11/teachable-moment-spectrum-24mnjij.jpg

somebody give me a fuckin cookie for not getting up on some What You're Actually Supporting When You Eat Meat stuff here ok

a vegan cookie you dickheads, no wise guys

Ah, but no more eating meat introduces a moral paradox: if everyone was vegetarian, then the millions (billions?) of animals bread to be consumed - cows, chickens, pigs, etc. - would all slowly die of starvation and neglect. So, yeah, there would be no more mistreatment of animals and Big Meat, but that would only come after the heartless global animal genocide. But if everyone stopped doing drugs, the only victims are the nefarious criminal cartels that cultivate them.

And the people that really, really want to do drugs, of course, boo hoo. They can get a sympathy cookie.

welp i guess thats taken care of then

Vegan cookie.

That last post read poorly, but basically I just don't get jhos argument so I was using the "universe is meaningless" stuff bcuz I don't rlly know how else to interpret it ... Obv we bring our own judgments onto others all the time. As jho did in this thread. And sometimes the stuff we judge them on isnt rlly that big a deal relative to the world's suffering. For me tho when the link to the horrors of it is so clear, and the cost to me so minimal, I feel reasonably comfortable being "self righteous" about this particular issue

― sorry for party blogging (D-40), Thursday, September 29, 2011 2:58 AM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yeah first id like to apologize for the self righteous ass comment it kinda uh got things off on the wrong foot and was fairly self satirizing on my part - i guess my point is that 'moral stands' that are super easy to make have little to no real world impact and are enthusiastically deployed to cast others in a harsh light are prob not really moral, theyre more 'entertainment'

Ah, but no more eating meat introduces a moral paradox: if everyone was vegetarian, then the millions (billions?) of animals bread to be consumed - cows, chickens, pigs, etc. - would all slowly die of starvation and neglect. So, yeah, there would be no more mistreatment of animals and Big Meat, but that would only come after the heartless global animal genocide. But if everyone stopped doing drugs, the only victims are the nefarious criminal cartels that cultivate them.

this is true, much as when you have a child you should be able to p much do what you want with it, because after all it wouldn't be around if it wasn't for you so shouldn't complain.

c'mon man, stopping forcing animals into existence, mutilating them & then electrocuting them to death = 'heartless global animal genocide': really? i don't think this is a 'moral paradox' - when we apply that kind of logic to thought experiments in which someone is or isn't born, and so whose life is speculative, it assumes some degree of 'quality of life' in either circumstance. us not producing animals for slaughter isn't really depriving anything of its vivid & sacred life force.

which is not to say i dont sympathize w/people who dont feel comfortable engaging in some aspect of the drug war or factory farming or whatever, but its imho a much better look to approach this from a personal decision pov

i think if we lived in a world sensitive enough to synchronously convert to vegetarianism, we would probably be touchy-feely enough to kick a spare carrot to the the animal in the field.

a lot of people seem to enter into these situations for the express purpose of putting themselves on a pedestal tho

I'm fully behind the idea that needless animal suffering is abhorent. I can see why some other aren't that bothered though. I'd hope that we could all agree that the activities of the Zetas, and their ilk, are unfathomably terrible.

The position i can't get my head around is one where people are vegetarian, only buy fair-trade coffee, try to keep a small carbon footprint, etc and still do coke, though.

they just really like cocaine!

Given the feeding of cattle and other edible animals is essentially the single biggest facet of factory farming - and all domestic animal production/consumption - I think the odd carrot or two would not suffice. If millions of cows, chickens, pigs, etc., were simply released, they'd either starve or die other horrible deaths. Unless everyone adopted several as pets. Which would be kind of funny. Can only imagine my neighbor with the chickens tethering a cow in the backyard.

I don't think anyone can argue that hard drugs like cocaine represent anything less than the epitome of selfishness and have no benefit to society. Though of course, lots of things fall in that category.

if we're really discussing ridiculous hypothetical plans for worldwide vegetarianism i presume it would be done in some controlled "let's eat what we have and not breed any more" kinda way, rather than letting billions of domesticated cattle run wild and free and slowly die of starvation and neglect.

and all of us our intimately tied to a global system that is in myriad ways brutal, even yr vegan bro didnt do coke thered be something else they used that was linked to causing suffering, the thing is altering their individual purchasing habits will prob not help the problem at all

btw what im NOT saying is 'theres nothing anyone can do' - in reality i think there is def some benefit to being judicious as to what you buy even if its often more of a global mindspace effect rather than a supply and demand one - and on a related note its kind of interesting in todays world that people might see what they consume as so central to their identity as moral being

LOL at the idea of a systematic, organized let's eat everything and be done with it campaign.

wild cattle might be kinda cool tho, they have them india, people just have to start littering more so they have something to eat is all

"Do Your Part Today: Eat a Cow."

"Don't Like To Eat Meat? Think Of The Animals!"

"Only 143475674 Cows to Go!"

The could have a countdown clock.

all the little cows that will never be born is who im worried abt

guess my point is that 'moral stands' that are super easy to make have little to no real world impact and are enthusiastically deployed to cast others in a harsh light are prob not really moral, theyre more 'entertainment'

if my personal contribution to (current global disaster scenario x) makes no difference (tragedy of the commons etc), isn't taking a moral stand more likely to have a real world impact - if you manage to persuade someone that x is bad, and they stop xing and maybe start taking a public stand themselves, and persuade someone else, etc...

the thing is altering their individual purchasing habits will prob not help the problem at all

idk. Cocaine is a social drug. If there was a concerted push to change the way it is viewed in a social context, that might start to have an impact on consumption. It won't solve all the problems but demand is as important as supply in tackling the issue.

It's unrealistic to imagine that everyone's going to stop doing it but, at the very least, people need to be made aware of the issues.

no i actually think advocacy is one of the most important things we can do for issues we find important, i guess its maybe personally i find a lot of overtly moralistic arguments surrounding consumption p small minded and unconvincing, particularly re drugs iirc the 'dont do drugs' tact has been tried a lil bit in the past

cocine is an interesting one cause its really really more than other comparable things a policy issue, unlike producing meat theres no reason why any being particularly has to suffer to create cocaine

xp Is it the same people with a different message, though?

This seems to be coming from a different place - particularly given that the solution anti-coke people usually come up with is legalisation.

tbf calling yr congressman once prob will have most irl impact than not doing coke, of course most people not doing coke on moral grounds prob just dont want to do coke

what if everyone who doesn't do coke says they'll get behind it and start using their share once its ethically sourced, cf the spike in people eating their five a day on account of smoothies

xp, A political solution's the only long-term end but a reduction in social acceptability / demand is the best we can hope for at the moment.

I know a few people who stopped doing coke for this reason.

just say lol

if everyone just learned how to get high off superiority we could end the drug problem right here right now

morality and the globalized consumer landscape

man I'm so w/deej here on a lot of this stuff it's not even funny

ppl who are always griefing about "oh no, self-righteousness, what could be worse than self-rightousness" are 10,000x worse than people who're trying to spread some good either through discussion or action and who come off a little self-righteous - worrying about whether somebody comes off wrong in the pursuit of good is like complaining that the person who helped raise a barn was wearing the wrong kind of shoes

barns are v. inefficient living spaces