Cro-Mags, classic or dud

Gotta go with xhuxh here, actually, in that I never cared for "scenes" as much as I did about individual bands. That said, being a New Yorker, it was hard to escape hearing about the Cro-Mags, and I'm sorry Chuck doesn't like them, but I thought they were hugely enjoyable, albeit in a scary way (scary for those of us who had hair, that is).

Cite some bands from Indiana and British Columbia! I can't think of any (wait, were DOA from Vancouver?)

NYHC more or less sucked before the Cro-Mags debut

Oh hey now, let's not dis my beloved KRAUT!!!!

vancouver: young canadians, modernettes, pointed sticks, doa (get one *vancouver complication.)

"sheer aggression baby": get one antiseen, plus one rancid vat (hey, there's some "politically correct intellectuals" for you!)

still playing baldhead hardcore in 1986: how pathetic can you get?

kix: pushed many an envelope. trust me.

Pains me to admit it but Boston probably had the better hardcore scene in the early eighties with Mission Of Burma, The F.U's, SSD, DYS, Siege and Deep Wound.

But heck, hardcore wasn't even the best skinhead music! Oi was!! (And it was scarier too.) (Also funnier and catchier.) (And it rocked more.)

xx-post

Bands like this were a dime-a-dozen in the Lehigh Valley while I was working for the entertainment section of the local newspaper. They were all roughly as shitty as the Cro-Mags, some slightly less, some slightly more, usually less tattoo'd. Quite naturally, they were fond of collecting in crowds of about 200-250 at the Airport Music Hangar to fight. The strip club next door -- Irv's BYOB -- routinely drew more. At the end of the night, the two squad cars patrolling the lot would not be picking up the drunks coming out of Irv's, but the pointless brawlers coming out of the Music Hangar, who would continue to fight in the parking lot.

Let's see -- who were the poor poor man's Cro-Mags who were the tops of these bills? Murphy's Law, Agnostic Front, Mucky Pup.

Yeah, but how many (good or otherwise) bands really know what they're doing, while they're doing it?

The band that beat all of these in lasting cred, regionally in that section of the NY-metro-Jersey-eastern shore of PA, was Overkill.

Overkill is still a draw in Allentown. They seem to have made thirty or forty records, most out of print, but with always about five in. I think they opened almost every non-commercial heavy metal show at Lehigh's Stabler Arena over a period of about two to three years in the Eighties. I saw them countless times and, singularly, can't remember any of their tunes. Heck, I remember DD Verni's spinoff joke band, the Bronx Casket Company, much better.

Overkill would always be on the bills with Slayer, Danzig and Motorhead. They were a true journeyman iron man act, the kind that could go on, and no matter how cannibalistic the audience, not wilt.
Oscar Bonavena's of metal.

but what about the Cro-Magnons?!

Yes, what about them?

SO GOOD.

Yeesh...I mean, to each their own, but...yeesh. I'll take the Zero Boys or Angry Samoans or Necros or the Huskers or B-Flag or Flipper or, uh, most hardcore bands I guess over those guys anyday. I really like the idea of taking something so simplified and so restrictive and then making it musical and distinctive almost in spite of itself, so I don't really agree with your "more generic=better" theory.

By the way, just let me note that I fucking love hardcore threads on ILM.

None, probably. But how does that make *Land Speed Record* or the first Die Kruezen album or *What Makes a Man Start Fires?* (or *Back From Samoa* or *Damaged* or *Group Sex* or the first Meat Puppets album or whatever) something other than hardcore, though? I don't want to argue with you; I just always assume that *everybody* considered those hardcore records. I thought that was just accepted; it never occured to me that anybody thought the dumbass lummox third-or-fourth-generation dime-a-dozen new york tattoed-thug moron stuff was the *only* hardcore out there. That's just crazy, Phil!

Can we just agree to disagree on what "hardcore" means and not upset the Cro-Mags fans on this thread? I apologize myself for my stream on "hardcore", the term, here.

I am just curious what Phil's definition CONSISTS of, that's all. It's a new one for me, you know? Like, when does he think hardcore started? As I said, I won't argue with him. I am just CURIOUS is all.

*does weird hand motions and mumbles some tantric bs*

Ok, it is done.

Anyway, when I hear the word "hardcore," I think of what it meant when I was in high school (Westfield, NJ class of 1990 because I repeated freshman year). And that means Gorilla Biscuits, Judge, Sick Of It All, Warzone, Breakdown, Cro-Mags, Killing Time, Leeway, etc., etc., etc. All that other stuff is/was just "punk," and shall ever be thus in my brain.

they may be punk to you, phil, but husker du, black flag, bad brains WERE hardcore bands. until they weren't. they helped to invent it.

having said that, i really want the new judge comp. and the bold comp.

As I remember it (and you may beg to differ), "hardcore" is to "punk" what the rectangle is to the square (i.e. a rectangle is always a square, but a square is not always a rectangle).

A former member of the hard-core punk band the Cro-Mags attacked two of the group’s current members with a hunting knife in a dressing room before a show at Webster Hall yesterday — biting one and slashing both.

The band was about to take the stage about 8:15 p.m. when tattooed rocker Harley Flanagan, 42, barreled through the East Village venue’s VIP section toward the Cro-Mags’ dressing room, sending nearly 30 guests on the balcony into a frenzy, law enforcement sources and witnesses said.

“Someone was yelling, ‘Get his hands, get his hands, he’s got a knife!’ ” witness Dave Gustav said. “Everything went nuts.”

Several beefy security guards rushed to contain Flanagan, who seemed about to boil over before he entered the East Village venue.

“I talked to him outside minutes before it happened and I knew something was going to go down,” a witness said, according to the Horns Up Rocks website. “He was like a lunatic outside. Next thing I know he’s in the VIP area stabbing people!”

Flanagan, the band’s former bassist and founder, suffered a broken leg by the time security finally pinned him down, witnesses said. Cops handcuffed him to a chair and took him out.

“People started booing him and throwing stuff at him,” eyewitness Justin Brannan said. “His hands were handcuffed but he still gave everyone the finger.”
William Berario, 45, was slashed above the eye and bitten on his cheek. Michael Couls, 33, — the band’s current bassist, who is known in the hardcore world as “The Gook” — was cut on his arm and stomach.

Both members of Cro-Mags were taken to Bellevue Hospital with non life-threatening wounds.

Flanagan, a New York native, was also taken to the hospital. He was hit with two counts of 2nd degree assault and weapons charges.

The melee forced the East 11th Street concert venue to cancel the show, which was part of the CBGB Festival and also featured the band Sick of It All.
“You can all thank Harley Flanagan for ruining the night for everyone,” Cro-Mags lead singer John Joseph McGowan told the crowd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUb9MPhhDec

read about this on adriens twitter last night.

Btw No way harley is 42!!

chill dude

Harley's likely a year or two older. Huge scandal.

“His hands were handcuffed but he still gave everyone the finger.”

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2Lu5LaivAIE/TzH1jpATErI/AAAAAAAAHeU/SRZnW8cwEp4/s1600/Harley7.jpg

why is the new bass player called 'the gook' what's goin on

am i right in understanding that he was not part of the band at the time of the stabbing?

you're saying The Gook was in the dressing room ready to play the show, Flanagan burst in with a knife, The Gook was quickly fired from the band and then stabbed, then rushed to the hospital and reinstated in time to be called "the current bassist" in the story?

Btw No way harley is 42!!

― Algerian Goalkeeper, Saturday, July 7, 2012 8:02 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

he prolly is - he was ridiculously young when he started playing in bands etc

you're saying The Gook was in the dressing room ready to play the show, Flanagan burst in with a knife, The Gook was quickly fired from the band and then stabbed, then rushed to the hospital and reinstated in time to be called "the current bassist" in the story?

Heh. I meant Flanagan. Obviously I was a little unclear.

Boy is that guy gonna feel like a dick in about ten years.
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Thursday, July 7, 2005 10:57 PM (7 years ago)

I wonder whatever became of Earth Crisis face tattoos guy.

http://www.nypost.com/rw/nypost/2012/07/08/news/web_photos/08.1n016.CroMags1--300x300.jpg

the EMT in those pics is an old friend of mine

Harley's side of the story...

http://www.nynatives.com/feature/exclusive-harley-flanagan-webster-hall-attack

I don't think I'm buying Harley's story.

John Joseph's rebuttal:

http://gunshyassassin.com/news/cro-mags-john-joseph-harley-flanagans-been-watching-too-many-sci-fi-movies/

I know the American thing is never to believe the accused and worship the "victims", but John's story is changing an awful lot...

I know you've been waiting with bated breath:

Bassist Harley Flanagan has reached a settlement with singer John Joseph and drummer Mackie Jayson regarding ownership of the Cro-Mags name. Flanagan will now perform under the name Cro-Mags while Joseph and Jayson will perform as Cro-Mags “JM.”

See below for Harley’s full statement:

"After many years of confusion, rumor and dispute, I, John Joseph and Mackie Jayson have reached a settlement designed to avoid any further confusion about the Cro-Mags mark and band. I, as the founder of the band and bass player on all Cro-Mags albums (Age of Quarrel, Best Wishes, Alpha Omega, Near Death Experience and Revenge) will be performing as Cro-Mags going forward and have exclusive ownership of the name as such in all commercial purposes world-wide. There will be a three month transition during which time I will be performing as Cro-Mags and John and Mackie’s shows may still be advertised as Cro-Mags as they finalize their name change to CRO-MAGS “JM”. During this transition period, to confirm which band you want to see, please check on our websites or social media pages. As of August 1, 2019, all shows under the CRO-MAGS name (on its own) will feature me, and all of John and Mackie’s shows will be under the name CRO-MAGS “JM”. Thanks for your patience as we wrap this up. Now that we have come to an agreement, I look forward to continuing to deliver music from the entire Cro-Mags catalogue the fans have come to know and love, be able to perform live without confusion and continue to create new music with the distinctive sound that is Cro-Mags."

well that's all cleared up then

I, as the founder of the band and bass player on all Cro-Mags albums (Age of Quarrel, Best Wishes, Alpha Omega, Near Death Experience and Revenge the good one and the other four)