― michael g. breece, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
*there was a mistake in sending that message prematurely, by the way*
But, I would completely (though partially) agree with you about both bands lyrics being in the "crap n'sync" vein (as I already stated in my previous post, the Beach Boys, at least, mixed in some other variants than JUST "crap n'sync" simple love letters).
"over-indulged" - who's to say. Personally, I don't make such caps on art. Clearly, Parks was attempting a sort of "Picasso" of rock lyric. And...why not? Nothing wrong with that. Rock should have such freedoms (which both Brian Wilson and The Beatles were both quite important in freeing up pop/rock in numerous artistic ways - lyrically, musically, sonically, conceptually, etc). Especially seeing as Brian was doing the same with the music - a sort of "Picasso" of a rock album (was what the pieces of the 'Smile' puzzle had been).
The Beatles were better at FASHION, period. Which, unfortunately, is a part of the reason why they are so vastly more accepted and then respected in comparison to Brian Wilson (I could give a flying rats assed fuck about The Beach Boys, in case that wasn't already clear enough). The element of fashion ("hipness") clearly played a larger role than most would care to realize in their transition compared to Brian (and the Boys).
VDP's lyrics - yeah of course he was trying to do this and that. Saying it was "over-indulged" I don't think is trying to "set caps on art" - it's pointing out that whatever he was trying to do, I don't think he managed it. Compare especially his excellent lyrics on "Discover America". Points-for-effort is not a particularly sensible mode of criticism, I think.
― Tom, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Tim, Thursday, 5 July 2001 00:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Mark, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― dleone, Monday, 28 January 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Terry Shannon, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― Andrew L, Monday, 4 February 2002 01:00 (twenty-two years ago) link
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Sunday, 8 May 2005 15:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 8 May 2005 15:38 (eighteen years ago) link
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Sunday, 8 May 2005 15:43 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mr. Snrub (Mr. Snrub), Sunday, 8 May 2005 15:48 (eighteen years ago) link
― Hurting (Hurting), Sunday, 8 May 2005 16:05 (eighteen years ago) link
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Sunday, 8 May 2005 16:09 (eighteen years ago) link
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Sunday, 8 May 2005 16:18 (eighteen years ago) link
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 8 May 2005 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't know. I thought you were being flip in reviving a thread about a pretty serious piece of work and just going, "Dud, can't get through it." So I thought I'd be flip right back atcha and imply that Pet Sounds is Ellingtonian in scope. Not so far off base, is it?
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 8 May 2005 17:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― Spencer Chow (spencermfi), Sunday, 8 May 2005 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Ian John50n (orion), Sunday, 8 May 2005 18:43 (eighteen years ago) link
As is, very near the top.
― Zed Szetlian (Finn MacCool), Sunday, 8 May 2005 19:41 (eighteen years ago) link
Those are easily the best songs on "Sunflower".
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Sunday, 8 May 2005 19:42 (eighteen years ago) link
― RS_LaRue (RSLaRue), Sunday, 8 May 2005 21:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 8 May 2005 21:25 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Sunday, 8 May 2005 21:26 (eighteen years ago) link
SNAP! Fucking Aussies.
― giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 8 May 2005 21:29 (eighteen years ago) link
― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Sunday, 8 May 2005 21:47 (eighteen years ago) link
I thought it was a gunshot when I heard the sound ("Brian Wilson's finally lost it!")
― giboyeux (skowly), Sunday, 8 May 2005 21:50 (eighteen years ago) link
― Amon (eman), Sunday, 8 May 2005 23:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― edd s hurt (ddduncan), Sunday, 8 May 2005 23:33 (eighteen years ago) link
-- Zed Szetlian (Finn.MacCoo...), May 8th, 2005.
I don't think it's a rock-and-roll album at all. I realize you may just be using the term as a catch-all, but I do think (in light of the recently resuscitated Rockism discussion) that there's a tendency for people who primarily like rock and roll to find this one "ok to like" because it gets grouped with rock. But to me it bears more similarity to elaborately arranged pop music, like maybe Roy Orbison.
― Hurting (Hurting), Monday, 9 May 2005 00:22 (eighteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro (GeirHong), Monday, 9 May 2005 01:20 (eighteen years ago) link
I've been listening to it on repeat for the last few days and one thing that's struck me is that 'I'm Waiting For The Day' is the album's unheralded masterpiece. Does anyone else agree?
― Alba (Alba), Friday, 8 July 2005 11:46 (eighteen years ago) link
and i agree on the strange demand the record makes for singing along...with lots of people...all mangling the various harmonies..especially after a few drinks. such a wonderful place.
i love Brians fluttertone rhythms used throughout and taken even further on smile
― b b, Friday, 8 July 2005 13:09 (eighteen years ago) link
I'm not sure if I will believe that tomorrow though...
― PappaWheelie (PappaWheelie), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:32 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 8 July 2005 15:58 (eighteen years ago) link
I was hoping you said Rock Cannon.. as in an AC/DC prop or something.
"FOR THOSE ABOUT TO PET...."
"SOUNDS!" *BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST*
"BRIIIIIIIAN WIIIIIIIIIIIILSON!"
― donut e- (donut), Friday, 8 July 2005 16:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 8 July 2005 16:14 (eighteen years ago) link
― donut e- (donut), Friday, 8 July 2005 16:17 (eighteen years ago) link
― lyra (lyra), Friday, 8 July 2005 22:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Joseph Cowart (Joseph Cowart), Saturday, 9 July 2005 08:56 (eighteen years ago) link
Yes, that's basically true. But then, I'll take as much LHRW as you got.
― Zed Szetlian (Finn MacCool), Sunday, 10 July 2005 03:19 (eighteen years ago) link
what do the ppl who heard it think of it?
― Julio Desouza (jdesouza), Tuesday, 19 July 2005 10:31 (eighteen years ago) link
― Mark Rich@rdson, Thursday, 17 May 2007 00:31 (sixteen years ago) link
― alex in mainhattan, Thursday, 17 May 2007 16:08 (sixteen years ago) link
― QuantumNoise, Thursday, 17 May 2007 16:18 (sixteen years ago) link
― Geir Hongro, Thursday, 17 May 2007 18:54 (sixteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison, Thursday, 17 May 2007 18:58 (sixteen years ago) link
― 2for25, Thursday, 17 May 2007 19:00 (sixteen years ago) link
― Shakey Mo Collier, Thursday, 17 May 2007 19:02 (sixteen years ago) link
Does David Fricke show up intermittently to tell me why Pet Sounds is so good?
Same question
― I look forward to hearing from you shortly, (Karl Malone), Tuesday, 26 July 2016 22:23 (seven years ago) link
No, he doesn't. This wasn't long or in depth enough, they didn't talk about every track for a start. They interviewed all the right people though: all the remaining Beach Boys, Tony Asher, Hal Blaine, Don Randi. Don't know why Helen Shapiro was on it though and why she was given as much screen time as Mike Love or Al Jardine. Brian started off very lucid but seemed to be losing it a bit by the end.
― 24 Hour Sex Ban Man (Tom D.), Wednesday, 27 July 2016 09:36 (seven years ago) link
yeah, the moments with Brian and Mark Linett in the studio, vaguely listening to some isolated tracks, are awkward (and quite useless).the documentary was ok but I guess not for big fans who already know a lot about all these stories and recordings.I don't think I have learned or heard anything new but it's always nice to go back to this fantastic album.a funny moment was when Jardine was seating in front of a piano for the interview. then next comment he's still seating there but with a guitar. I was wondering where they would stop and if he would have an extra instrument each time !
― AlXTC from Paris, Wednesday, 27 July 2016 10:46 (seven years ago) link
Pet Sounds good because the lyrics were largely written by Laura LaPlante's son. And that's fun.
The day Brian Wilson and Tony Asher met at Western Studios, Tony introduced Brian to "Stella By Starlight", perhaps during Asher's Bill Evans phase.
Of course, Brian's obsession with Dick Reynolds, the arranger for the Four Freshmen, culminated in the "Beach Boys" warbly bootleged version of the song (along with another standard performed just as warbly, "How Deep Is The Ocean"). Both are Brian, Reynolds, and Bones Howe in Studio A (where Spector recorded Ebb Tide a month earlier)
But I suspect all of these events happened on the same day, October 15, '65, just as Brian was recording this overlooked seed for Pet Sounds (generally misidentified as a Smile fragment)
https://youtu.be/iMDn-CQPyF8
How much Brian was dropping in on Gold Star during the fall of '65 just to hear other people's sessions remains debated, but some of those Spector proteges/throw-aways are fucking marvels -- so I can see where Brian felt a surge of ideas
https://youtu.be/28IkZ0okfcQ
And once the Beach Boys returned from Japan around Feb '66, Mike Love was greeted with Brian's solo Caroline No already in the can, and facing his role on "Let Go of Your Ego" being the first session.
https://youtu.be/X3f6ZKQ_ffo
I often speculate on the Sloop John B sessions, just before Mike Love got on that plane to Hawaii/Japan (wait; who's gettin' paid royalties on this traditional folk song, Brian?!)
― OPRAH WHEELIE! (PappaWheelie V), Friday, 29 July 2016 23:13 (seven years ago) link
this was lacking something. wished the had the in depth analysis of each track like they did with previous episodes of this
― Neptune Bingo (Michael B), Friday, 29 July 2016 23:19 (seven years ago) link
Still the best Brian interviews I've seen on it, and well combined with Wrecking Crew interciews:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0vAL8dHBxA
― OPRAH WHEELIE! (PappaWheelie V), Friday, 29 July 2016 23:27 (seven years ago) link
missed you bro
― Οὖτις, Friday, 29 July 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
thank you. seriously :-)
― OPRAH WHEELIE! (PappaWheelie V), Friday, 29 July 2016 23:33 (seven years ago) link
“I can’t help how I act when you’re not here with me”
― Random Shitposter (calstars), Friday, 29 December 2017 00:47 (six years ago) link
picked up the 4cd sessions this week, with acapella/miscellany/sax solo/dogs barking. "hey jack, is it possible we could bring a horse in here...?" "my horse would be so bitchin' in here!" no one will ever make a record as beautiful and pure as this. when traveling in california i saw brian & co play it from start to finish in san diego. i got told off for dancing.
― meaulnes, Sunday, 19 May 2019 22:42 (four years ago) link
oh, and my housemate made a very astute observation on a detail in 'don't talk. he remarked (while blind drunk i might add) how the kettle drum appearing around 2:07 is perhaps in anticipation of the following song, which of course has the big kettle drum intro.
― meaulnes, Sunday, 19 May 2019 22:45 (four years ago) link
for people who listen to records and who like the beach boys: i'm playing a non-fancy U.S. stereo reissue from 2016 put out by Capitol/UMe with the UPC code 6 02547 822289 1 and it is without a doubt the best version of this album that i've ever heard. and i've heard multiple versions from multiple years and yes i have heard the mono version that people love that comes with So Tough and this is really the one. Big, Bright, Tons of Detail. its a jaw-dropper.
played on a Music Hall Ikura table with a gold Viburg weight and resting on an Auralex Acoustics isolation platform and run through a Marantz 2230 into vintage Klipsch Heresy II speakers. just in case Steve Hoffman is reading this.
i know i know what about mono but whatever. and i know i know what about the 50th anniversary 200 gram analogue productions pressing from 2016??? well, that one is probably better? i've never heard it! what i have heard? TONS of crappy pressings of this record. and this is just such a treat to actually hear one that opens up and blooms like a rose instead of lying there in the mud with those goats at the pet sounds goat farm. no offense to the goats.
anyway, kudos to Mark Linett. it gives me hope for mixing old stuff in the 21st century.
― scott seward, Friday, 1 March 2024 15:19 (one month ago) link
Some of the worst posts I've ever seen on the internet to start this thread. Truly gag-worthy takes.
Your set up sounds like a dream Scott, happy listening to you!
― H.P, Saturday, 2 March 2024 05:19 (one month ago) link
xp is there something about the Carl and the Passions version that sets it apart?
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Saturday, 2 March 2024 05:30 (one month ago) link
the tapes they used were supposed to be top notch/early master/etc. can't remember the details. i'm sure there is a very long internet story about it. i'm sure there are people here who can tell you more! some people swear by it as the go-to mono pressing. it sounds good from what i remember. i've sold a bunch of them.
― scott seward, Saturday, 2 March 2024 05:35 (one month ago) link
yeah, that's the one i have - i just remember buying that double-lp set and being pretty sure the shop had no clue it was included. just looked up the discogs prices and was shocked how much mid quality even goes for.
― Western® with Bacon Flavor, Saturday, 2 March 2024 05:43 (one month ago) link
i've had pristine early pressings that look unplayed and i think they are going to blow me away and they sound like mud. it happens. Capitol vinyl can be like that. which is why people prefer certain pressing plants from that era. and which is why it was so nice to hear this copy i was playing from 2016. they did a heck of a job with it. but it also doesn't sound...you know, digital. like a CD. too clean. too overdone as far as a new mix goes. people can go overboard with new tech to change the inherent qualities of a record. make it sound like what they THINK it should sound like. this just really sounds like what i imagine an actual reel-to-reel of the album sounded like in 1966. only louder probably.
― scott seward, Saturday, 2 March 2024 05:44 (one month ago) link
I truly wanted to love this album, but I just can't.
― BriefCandles, Sunday, 3 March 2024 00:34 (one month ago) link
its a weird one.
― scott seward, Sunday, 3 March 2024 00:51 (one month ago) link
in 2019 i got to listen to this album while riding the Pacific Surfliner and walking around the San Diego Zoo (the site of the cover shoot). Balboa park instantly struck me as the visual universe of Pet Sounds, also this music loves giraffes. It was 70F and sunny, and there are so many plants i've never seen anywhere else in the zoo.
I don't think Pet Sounds is overrated by the dad rags, if anything it was underrated by the wider public for so long. i'm sure it's pretty hard to have an original thought about Pet Sounds but one dimension the title takes on for me- it's an album about the vulnerable, dependent kind of love, like that of a pet for its owner.
the thing with the dad rag praise, calling Pet Sounds the best album ever made implies a lot of things that i've grown uneasy with, like that art should never be limited by practical constraints...
i'm happy with my cd versions (1990 mono with trombone dixie etc, 97 box set)
― A street taco cart named Des'ree (Deflatormouse), Sunday, 3 March 2024 03:28 (one month ago) link
I don't think Pet Sounds is overrated by the dad rags, if anything it was underrated by the wider public for so long.
I think so too. And also Rolling Stone (especially editor Dave Marsh) were actually pretty hard on it whenever I came across any mention of it published in the '70s or anything Marsh wrote in the '80s and '90s. They didn't hate it, but they constantly argued it was pretentious and beneath their earlier hits. Even Robert Christgau and I believe Greil Marcus maintain that argument.
They're older now, but the first newspaper critics I remember reading in the '90s were part of a later generation and really championed it. Everyone I knew back home who adored it was high school or college age at the turn of the millennium - Wilson's big revival (which began with that first Pet Sounds tour) probably fed off that and vice versa. I haven't heard as much about it now, but I think that's more reflective of changes in pop with the music most consciously influenced by Wilson having less of a mainstream presence now. I personally don't care - I never bought into the idea that musical trends defined "greatness" to the extent that a work is taken down a notch simply because other things have become trendy. Pet Sounds hasn't lost anything for me, it's still brilliant and beautiful for so many reasons - absolutely one of the great landmarks in rock history.
― birdistheword, Sunday, 3 March 2024 06:09 (one month ago) link