craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

but if we assume people are ~buying less stuff~ then that effect can make up for it I guess.

you have to be careful with some of these young hip dudes making axes because a lot of them went to progressive schools that stressed "process" over "product". just watch where you swing that axe is all i'm saying.

Insert Pink Floyd img joke here.

xxxxxp True, the "local" tag can be used misleadingly as well, I suppose. But, at least in my area, there's been an explosion of new, local grain farms, hop farms, and even maltsters in the past few years. I think that as we see more and more of these "support" businesses open on the small/independent/local/community scale, the local distillers, brewers, etc. will have more options for sourcing their ingredients locally without breaking the bank. Because, in the end, why start a small, local business if you're not going to support other small, local businesses in doing so? And I guess that's about all I'm going to say on the subject, because I'm getting really sick of writing the word "local". Somebody get me a thesaurus.

to make money, tbh

"regionally indigenous"

xxxxxp True, the "local" tag can be used misleadingly as well, I suppose. But, at least in my area, there's been an explosion of new, local grain farms, hop farms, and even maltsters in the past few years. I think that as we see more and more of these "support" businesses open on the small/independent/local/community scale, the local distillers, brewers, etc. will have more options for sourcing their ingredients locally without breaking the bank. Because, in the end, why start a small, local business if you're not going to support other small, local businesses in doing so? And I guess that's about all I'm going to say on the subject, because I'm getting really sick of writing the word "local". Somebody get me a thesaurus.

― epistantophus, Friday, November 4, 2011 9:20 AM (3 minutes ago) Bookmark

yeah i mean there is reason for cautious optimism in this space due to some of the things you point out; it's just not quite there yet imo.

if everyone that needs an axe were to buy their axe at their local artizan axemaster and that axe were the only axe they'd ever need, how long could that local axemaster earn a living before he'd run out of customers

he'd need to charge quite a high price, that axemaster, tbh

or else he'd need to diversify his product range to include other cutting & chopping tools

people used to make money by selling things and then repairing those things when they needed repairing. so maybe the axe guy could make extra axe bucks by sharpening your axe for you.

even so, realistically speaking he'd be working with a very limited demand pool

door to door knife sharpening. when are the kids gonna get on that old job.

if everyone that needs an axe were to buy their axe at their local artizan axemaster and that axe were the only axe they'd ever need, how long could that local axemaster earn a living before he'd run out of customers

That's why business for small-town artisans is so different when people can order this stuff online.

ok, so we have a blacksmith in the village, allowing for sharpening, grinding, etc. Sustainable as a local enterprise?

darning socks. my mom used to do that! she never had to buy socks. probably put a ton of sock retailers out of business near us.

scott: we still had 'tinkers' doing that and pot mending etc up to maybe two generations ago, but there's reasons the door-to-door tooling trade died out

i think we're heading into m night shyamalan's 'the village' with this.

wear jeans until they have holes. patch holes. when holes no longer patchable make into shorts. when too ripped up as shorts cut into rags and use as rags. when too raggy sew into quilt. we were like the indians and their damn beefalos.

rags-quilt is a bit of a manky progression tbh

xxp Yes, now people buy cheap things, packaged in the least recyclable materials possible, and then throw them away when they wear out. Thanks, free market!

okay maybe not a quilt. cut into strips and, uh, hook a rug or something. that's what grandma was good for.

Although the "used-rag quilt" does not sound appealing. xp haha

i still have a little pillow made out of a pair of my jeans from when i was a kid. lovely little pillow.

POT MENDING, now there's something you don't hear about. How do metal pots need mending?? Who wears a whole in the bottom of a cook pot? Maybe I'm taking this too literally?

Easy on the crazy quilts, there, you disgusting savages. Every worn out garment has some part that's still good. Things wear out where you do the work.

cf http://joyfulhomaker.com/RagCoatbook.jpg

<3 <3 Appalachia

I always wondered that too; maybe handles break off or something?

i'd go shorts-rags-call it a day

Course, once upon a time there'd a bin a local rag n bone man but now it's just hipsters traipsing around in a $100k handmade oak wagon looking for last year's abercrombie scarves to weave into neil gaiman's next graphic novel masterpiece

i still have some of my grandparents pots and pans. some of them must be 60 years old or more.

maybe pots are just better-made or modern cooking appliances are easier on the potarse or maybe we microwave everything, myriad causes imo

Well you can't "mend" cast iron, it has to be cast. So at the most, we'd be talking about...tin?

i use a cast iron pan for a lot of the cooking i do and i can't imagine that i'll ever need another one in my lifetime. i have two actually. one big and one small. same with the big stew pot that i use. it should last forever. that's, like, 60% of my cooking materials right there. pots for boiling though yeah the handle problem.

cast iron gets cast in the bin when it breaks iirc.

Yes, exactly. So what could a pot mender be mending? Steel? I don't know. Tin, for sure. In fact isn't that where the word "tinker" comes from, now that I think of it?

Copper pots were a thing once, right? Nowadays they are lined or clad to avoid copper poisoning.

Copper pots are awesome but expensive as hell.

Also I agree (to an extent) with the OP characterizing a lot of artisinal products as Veblen goods. There is definitely a degree of conspicuous consumption going on there. The more expensive, the better! In the old days, it was exotic esoteria from faraway lands. Today it's handmade, artisan goods from the local craft workshop. As much as I love to support local business, it bugs me when this stuff is outrageously overpriced and marketed toward the affluent so they can be all bohemian and rustic in front of their peers.

*esoterica

that's true but this is a pretty small phenomenon as far as veblen goods go , rich people are gonna buy something to prove that they're rich and if it's rustic pots instead of sports cars, who cares

Fewer total resources go into an axe, tbf.

elmo started to get at something earlier about the work and suffering that "fine goods" represent, like it really isn't a stretch to say that, if tying six million tiny knots to make a rug cost someone their sight, someone obscenely rich person would buy it and savor it more because of the suffering it represented. We're not far from that very dystopian scenario imo, especially since THAT'S EFFECTIVELY TRUE OF OUR ELECTRONICS ALREADY and our clothes and etc. But the suffering/lost life of the maker is devalued to the point of irrelevance.

one day robots will build the robots that build the goods that sustain us.

There's also that as products become digitized and/or mass-produced, there's both a nostalgia and a longing for putting something together by visible means. If someone understands the pleasure of developing a photograph or cooking a stew, then then may also have that appreciation as a consumer. Definitely anyone I know who cooks seriously feels that way at a restaurant where some individual has dreamed up the menu.

as someone pointed out upthread tho reaction-to-mass-production has happened fairly regularly since the industrial revolution

, this reaction-to

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be

ha, laurel, I was just about to expand on that point, too -- i think you can explore the relationship between morality and labor, not just in the sense of "an honest day's work" and the sense of forthrightness & authenticity that implies, but also the idea that hard work is supposed to morally instructive or rehabilitating, and i don't think that diminishes the recognition that much labor is grueling by nature (but that I think ties back to concepts of original sin & being like Christ in our suffering)

why can't I buy a samurai sword that was folded 2000 times in the forge today, I ask you. I have $600. how come?

You and me, we are same-same, elmo.

2000 fold. $189

http://www.globalgear.com.au/bestsellers/shinwa-damascus-black-knight-katana-sword

So I guess the question is, if we want to buy something (like electronics, clothing, etc.) that takes hard labor to create, should we be prepared to pay the true cost of production to ensure that everyone involved in the process properly compensated for their work? The obvious answer is yes, but how could that really be accomplished without the workers still getting exploited and the company just pocketing the extra profits? Also, I think the availability of cheap (undervalued) goods is built into our entire economy- i.e., if I'm going to pay true value for all my consumed goods, I need to be paid more for my own labor by my own employer. So where does this lead? A complete restructuring of our entire economic system?