craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

i use a cast iron pan for a lot of the cooking i do and i can't imagine that i'll ever need another one in my lifetime. i have two actually. one big and one small. same with the big stew pot that i use. it should last forever. that's, like, 60% of my cooking materials right there. pots for boiling though yeah the handle problem.

cast iron gets cast in the bin when it breaks iirc.

Yes, exactly. So what could a pot mender be mending? Steel? I don't know. Tin, for sure. In fact isn't that where the word "tinker" comes from, now that I think of it?

Copper pots were a thing once, right? Nowadays they are lined or clad to avoid copper poisoning.

Copper pots are awesome but expensive as hell.

Also I agree (to an extent) with the OP characterizing a lot of artisinal products as Veblen goods. There is definitely a degree of conspicuous consumption going on there. The more expensive, the better! In the old days, it was exotic esoteria from faraway lands. Today it's handmade, artisan goods from the local craft workshop. As much as I love to support local business, it bugs me when this stuff is outrageously overpriced and marketed toward the affluent so they can be all bohemian and rustic in front of their peers.

*esoterica

that's true but this is a pretty small phenomenon as far as veblen goods go , rich people are gonna buy something to prove that they're rich and if it's rustic pots instead of sports cars, who cares

Fewer total resources go into an axe, tbf.

elmo started to get at something earlier about the work and suffering that "fine goods" represent, like it really isn't a stretch to say that, if tying six million tiny knots to make a rug cost someone their sight, someone obscenely rich person would buy it and savor it more because of the suffering it represented. We're not far from that very dystopian scenario imo, especially since THAT'S EFFECTIVELY TRUE OF OUR ELECTRONICS ALREADY and our clothes and etc. But the suffering/lost life of the maker is devalued to the point of irrelevance.

one day robots will build the robots that build the goods that sustain us.

There's also that as products become digitized and/or mass-produced, there's both a nostalgia and a longing for putting something together by visible means. If someone understands the pleasure of developing a photograph or cooking a stew, then then may also have that appreciation as a consumer. Definitely anyone I know who cooks seriously feels that way at a restaurant where some individual has dreamed up the menu.

as someone pointed out upthread tho reaction-to-mass-production has happened fairly regularly since the industrial revolution

, this reaction-to

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be

ha, laurel, I was just about to expand on that point, too -- i think you can explore the relationship between morality and labor, not just in the sense of "an honest day's work" and the sense of forthrightness & authenticity that implies, but also the idea that hard work is supposed to morally instructive or rehabilitating, and i don't think that diminishes the recognition that much labor is grueling by nature (but that I think ties back to concepts of original sin & being like Christ in our suffering)

why can't I buy a samurai sword that was folded 2000 times in the forge today, I ask you. I have $600. how come?

You and me, we are same-same, elmo.

2000 fold. $189

http://www.globalgear.com.au/bestsellers/shinwa-damascus-black-knight-katana-sword

So I guess the question is, if we want to buy something (like electronics, clothing, etc.) that takes hard labor to create, should we be prepared to pay the true cost of production to ensure that everyone involved in the process properly compensated for their work? The obvious answer is yes, but how could that really be accomplished without the workers still getting exploited and the company just pocketing the extra profits? Also, I think the availability of cheap (undervalued) goods is built into our entire economy- i.e., if I'm going to pay true value for all my consumed goods, I need to be paid more for my own labor by my own employer. So where does this lead? A complete restructuring of our entire economic system?

okay, fine, it's a "ninja" sword. not a samurai sword.

The handles are hardwood construction and wrapped with genuine ray skin and nylon cord.

genuine nylon cord sourced from the same nylon mines that our forebears quarried in Edo period Nippon

there are too many damn people on the earth to NOT make cheap shit. nobody can darn 6 billion pairs of socks. not even my mom!

yes scott but were those 2000 folds folded in by a mere machine or by a true bushido blacksmith versed in the lethal arts

I don't want my 2000 machine folded ninja sword to be cleaved in two by the superior hand-crafted blade of my opponent when locked in mortal combat to the death

hand-crafted blade sourced from locally grown nylon, btw

So I guess the question is, if we want to buy something (like electronics, clothing, etc.) that takes hard labor to create, should we be prepared to pay the true cost of production to ensure that everyone involved in the process properly compensated for their work? The obvious answer is yes, but how could that really be accomplished without the workers still getting exploited and the company just pocketing the extra profits? Also, I think the availability of cheap (undervalued) goods is built into our entire economy- i.e., if I'm going to pay true value for all my consumed goods, I need to be paid more for my own labor by my own employer. So where does this lead? A complete restructuring of our entire economic system?

there's no objective measure for 'properly compensated'

if things get bleaker though people will remember their dormant sewing skills. a la the great depression.

eh we got a lot more shit around these days and mass producing clothes isn't very expensive. the prob is we don't have dormant ipod-repairing skills.

you'd be surprised

all these (globalwarming?) storms bring home the fact that things are getting dangerously overloaded. before the big hurricane here the electric company called everyone in the STATE to tell them that their power might be off for as long as a week. i can't remember that happening in the past. it might have, but i don't remember it. people around here still without power from the snowpocalypse last week. lots of people buying generators this week and they never thought they would need a generator. hand-crafted locally-sourced generators is where its at in new england if you want to get in on the ground floor. the economy is gonna change in weird ways in the coming years.

Gonna start me a company that makes free-range generators out of hemp.

i mean all the back to local handicraft stuff might just be a, uh, harbinger of sorts. a collective unconscious type of thing like birds freaking out before a tornado. maybe everyone is finally getting the picture - like when their entire house is filled with water - that the center cannot hold and all that.

or it could just be boredom with local indie rock scenes.

hand perned in an authentic gyre

and, likewise, current cultural obsession with american pickers/storage wars/pawn stars is a flexing of dormant scavenging muscles. people know, even if they don't know, that finding the good stuff will be increasingly more important when the storm has left town and you don't get a visit from FEMA or the Red Cross for months.

that's a good point

yer man yeats was a fellow for the arts and crafts, d'mac -- his sister worked with morris

and, needless to say, the 400 popular shows about being dropped into the wild and eating bugs.

hand perned in an authentic gyre

W B LOL

i just got a great roycrofter book in at the store. i love their stuff. elbert hubbard's scrapbook. a memorial to the man made with loving detail.

I posted this link over on ILM but it also fits this thread I think. Basically you're paying $500 for a tape reel of music recorded directly from the studio master tapes. You'll need a decent reel-to-reel tape deck. So you'll be sepnding upwards of $1100 for one album and the tape player.

http://www.tapeproject.com/

i like how a thread about consumerism can become a thread about a survivalism

sincerely!

I keep reading the thread title to the tune of Husker Du's "Charity, Chastity, Prudence and Hope."

i would love nothing more than for my kids to learn a trade. find an apprenticeship somewhere. carpenters! the world will always need carpenters. screw college. i mean, what if they became librarians or something! *shudder*

tbh the world also needs librarians

http://hooniverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Time-Enough.png

Oh the the noise board did this already. We're going to stockpile rope, cigarettes, bike parts, and weed and ride our bikes across the country to gbx's family home, or, barring that, possibly mine.

my gf's dad is a master carpenter. i feel that isn't fair, somehow. i can't be expected to impress a master carpenter ffs

Oh yeah, that sucks. Otoh, she seems to like you okay?

that hardly matters where i come from, i need two signatures on the form- paterfamilias and the bishop- then i own her iirc