British Right-Wing Pundits

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british journalism is more frivolous and clubbable than US journalism. all UK hacks know each other. this probably isn't so much the case in the states.

yes ed i know. but the idea that liberalism is the worst the 20th century right has to offer is batshit insane. as is the idea that welfare capitalism was some kind of 'left'. even without factoring in the fact that at the start of the century liberalism was kind of... left-wing.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:24 (eleven years ago) Permalink

outsourcing prisons to eastern european countries in the EC - who will be the first New Labour or Tories?

djmartian, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:26 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Send 'em all to Botany Bay.

I think for historical reasons the U.S. has this strong libertarian streak (ie right to bear arms etc.) coupled with a strong religious/puritan streak. Put the two together and they coelesce into a very strong, very dynamic right-wing culture that simply doesn't exist in the UK. And that's why rightwing pundits don't have so much sway. I mean David Cameron would be quite a bit to the left of most Democrat candidates.

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:27 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I mean David Cameron would be quite a bit to the left of most Democrat candidates.

Not where it matters he isn't

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:29 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Rightwing pundits have an absolute fuckload of sway, party politics is an irrelevence here. Ask White Van Man what he thinks about asylum seekers.

Matt DC, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:29 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I would say that liberalism was progressive not left- wing per say. And whether or not you think 'welfare capitalism' is of the left or not, the centre is to the right of even that now.

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

xpost to Tom D.

Where it matters? Well for a start I'm guessing Cameron's not going to dismantle the NHS in any fundamental way. Can you imagine a serious Democrat candidate proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare?

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:32 (eleven years ago) Permalink

british reactionary right is xenophobic and defensive rather than on constant attack like the americans?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:32 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Where it matters? Well for a start I'm guessing Cameron's not going to dismantle the NHS in any fundamental way. Can you imagine a serious Democrat candidate proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare?

We'll see how good that guess is when he wins the next election. Cameron isn't proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare either, we've already got it. Cameron is only "radical" when it comes to wearing a wind turbine on your head or cycling backwards on a bicycle made entirely of radishes

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:35 (eleven years ago) Permalink

You sure you're not mixing up David Cameron with John Otway?

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

And Wild Willie Whitelaw?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:38 (eleven years ago) Permalink

upthread are you dudes talking economic or social liberalism? or both?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:41 (eleven years ago) Permalink

both

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:42 (eleven years ago) Permalink

xpost

Sure, Cameron didn't come up with free healthcare! But the political climate is such that he'd have a hard time getting rid of it. Which underlines my point about the political background being skewed more leftwards in the UK, despite years of Thatcher/Blair.

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:43 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"Cameron isn't proposing universal, free-at-the-point-of-service healthcare either, we've already got it."

well except for things involving teeth or eyes, ie the only two things i ever go in for...

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:44 (eleven years ago) Permalink

just going to say

Alan, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:45 (eleven years ago) Permalink

We'll see how hard a time he has getting rid of it, it'll be less hard than you think once he persuades the middle classes it's in their interest (xxpost)

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:46 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Well, I think if it were politically possible to get rid of the NHS, it would have already been done. Anyway, doesn't Cameron have a disabled kid or something. He probably uses the NHS more than the average Tory.

underpants of the gods, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

They are getting rid of it already, piece by piece

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

um guys the nhs is already on the way out...

xpost!

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 13:50 (eleven years ago) Permalink

BUT immigration is the no 1 concern of uk voters! apprently. maybe my first hypothesis was v v wrong.

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:21 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Not according to the most recent polls.

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:23 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Being tough on immigration didn't do Michael Howard much good last time round did it?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:23 (eleven years ago) Permalink

... and wasn't Cameron one of those responsible for that policy?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:25 (eleven years ago) Permalink

parties don't campaign on 'number one concern of voters' in general but the voters who will swing the election, ie middle england blah blah blah.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:25 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Middle england (according to the polls) cares about health and house prices.

Ed, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:30 (eleven years ago) Permalink

healthy and house prices

fixed

onimo, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:31 (eleven years ago) Permalink

what on earth could their problem be with house prices!? they are winning that war. it would be interesting to know the nature of middle england's concern w. health -- taking my parents as barometer of same, their problem isn't exactly lack of service but quality of it: hospital bugs etc. a move by the tories towards increased private provision probably wouldn't phase them too much.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:48 (eleven years ago) Permalink

their kids getting on the property ladder?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:49 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Having to live near poor people?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 14:52 (eleven years ago) Permalink

are the right wing pundits repping for "middle england" thou? as dom points out Littlejohn is, or at least was, the voice of white van man. all the big scares of recent years have focused on working class fears as much as middle england haven't they?

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:02 (eleven years ago) Permalink

the fact that homeowners who actually rent their houses from the bank think theyre rich overnight and are spending the paper money they dont have?

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:05 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Ha ha, who cares about "working class fears"?

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:06 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Difference between white working class fears of immigration and middle England fears of immigration? Straightforward difference of economics vs culture?

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:08 (eleven years ago) Permalink

also theres a sense that rightwing british pundits dont really believe that much in what they right, so it all comes off a bit geezer down the pub, who says one thing one minute and another the next

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:08 (eleven years ago) Permalink

a decent education system in this country might mean people writing right instead of righting write

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:09 (eleven years ago) Permalink

If nothing else, the French election campaign makes me feel nostalgic for the days when one party stood for something and another party stood for something else, clearcut with no ambiguity and no chasing after the same limited and overrated floating electorate.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:09 (eleven years ago) Permalink

perhaps with a decent university system that keeps the poor out, some of them may even write correctly

600, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:10 (eleven years ago) Permalink

"the fact that homeowners who actually rent their houses from the bank think theyre rich overnight and are spending the paper money they dont have?

-- 600, Tuesday, April 24, 2007 6:05 PM (4 minutes ago)"

lol 8080

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:11 (eleven years ago) Permalink

There are a lot of rent-a-rightie types on the op ed pages of the Times who you know cynically knock out 500 words of half-hearted spleen on the turn of a dime and really don't give a toss one way or the other - stand up Stephen Pollard, Ross Clark, Mick Hume and Rosemary Righter, which latter name could have come straight out of Kingsley Amis.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:12 (eleven years ago) Permalink

oh i think mick hume cares a lot. he's sinister fucker with a scary team.

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:18 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Since when was Mick Hume on Sinister?

Still, never trust an ex-Marxist.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:23 (eleven years ago) Permalink

i think saying they don't actually believe what they're saying is a bit dangerous. cf that thread about melanie phillips and the missing WMDs.

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:53 (eleven years ago) Permalink

I've said this before elsewhere on ILE, but Peter Cook used to write a fervently right-wing column for the Daily Mail in '76-8. He said he didn't agree with a word of it but he thought that was the kind of writing the editor of the Daily Mail wanted, and it paid good money. Most notoriously, he gave a scathing denouncement of punk rock which he'd written with Malcolm McLaren the night before.

Marcello Carlin, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:56 (eleven years ago) Permalink

what thread was that?

i know what you mean acrobat. but melanie p means every word of what she says. she is less of a menace than the others, partly because that imo. which sounds odd but basically i don't think many guardian writers are really very committed to any kind of politics, they, like their right-wing counterparts, churn out perversely 'reassuring' copy each day, confirming their readers' half-thought out prejudices. polly toynbee and jackie ashley exist solely as government mouthpieces, for example.

crosspost

the cook columns are really funny though!

That one guy that quit, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 15:58 (eleven years ago) Permalink

He also mocked the idea that Martin Luther King was a good person because he used to sleep around, some of the columns are in that "I Was Born An Only Twin" collection.

xp

Dom Passantino, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:00 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Does this guy count as a rightwing pundit? Or is he a bit too button-down for the raving loon aspect?

He's the kind who's exported to america, at least, since he's over here on a book tour.

kingfish, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:01 (eleven years ago) Permalink

http://www.ilxor.com/ILX/ThreadSelectedControllerServlet?boardid=40&threadid=53352#unread

this thread. i flicked through the spectator for the first time ever last week. it was really horrible.

xpost

acrobat, Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:02 (eleven years ago) Permalink

Upper class twit (xp)

Tom D., Tuesday, 24 April 2007 16:03 (eleven years ago) Permalink

LBC producer admitting they employ racists:

Hi Abi, one of LBC's producers here. James regularly calls out racism and Islamophobia (on and off air) including that of fellow LBC presenters.

— Sandra Glab (@glabsandra) March 16, 2019

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:38 (one week ago) Permalink

Refresh the thread xyzebra

A funny tinge happened on the way to the forum (wins), Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:43 (one week ago) Permalink

bah it was so good it was worth doing again

xyzzzz__, Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:52 (one week ago) Permalink

it was worth it for the wins joke

gyac, Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:56 (one week ago) Permalink

board description imo

A funny tinge happened on the way to the forum (wins), Saturday, 16 March 2019 21:57 (one week ago) Permalink

Yep. That's where Tommy Robinson, the EDL the BNP, Column 88, the Aryan Brotherhood, Stormfront get all their ideas and information from - @thetimes. You fucking idiot.

— David Aaronovitch (@DAaronovitch) March 17, 2019

DA is not taking the observation that the Times has published some awful stuff well.

gyac, Sunday, 17 March 2019 16:12 (six days ago) Permalink

This is unfathomable to me - the seeming inability to deal with practiced and serial liars, to the point where you are wondering even after the show - do they even know they've been had?

Flipside is the really poor level of some of the people that do go on, a complete inability to deal with even the slightest tough questioning. Its one of the reason i think Left-leaning guests SHOULD go on Fox, its the best practice out there

― anvil

nah, honestly i find it very fathomable. that sort of belief that if you get someone to go on tv and say the 14 words, you've completely and thoroughly debunked them, because every right-thinking person is just born KNOWING why the 14 words are bad and god forbid you should have to explain it or anything

i don't think anybody needs "practice" arguing with the right. it posits argument as its own undifferentiated good. it isn't. there's nothing to discuss, the preconditions for rational discussion don't exist. i mean, shit, it's gotten to the point where our worldviews are so divergent the right is increasingly not even going to the trouble of misrepresenting us. "you'll never believe what the loony left is saying now - they're saying racism is a bad thing!"

the scientology of mountains (rushomancy), Sunday, 17 March 2019 18:09 (six days ago) Permalink

(xp) Supreme effort of will by Aaronovitch to leave Corbyn off that list.

Bielsa, Bub (Tom D.), Sunday, 17 March 2019 18:12 (six days ago) Permalink

Also it's rare for anyone to see through a bullshitty thing in one lightbulb instant. Rather you need a steady diet of fairly critical thinking, and an accumulation of knowledge, and a freedom from distractions, which not everyone has

Never changed username before (cardamon), Sunday, 17 March 2019 22:05 (six days ago) Permalink

Impressive display of professional solidarity from the British press at the moment - with everyone from comment leaders to investigative journalists to beauty / lifestyle correspondents - ‘left’ and right alike - lining up to shout at Owen Jones.

If there is ever a point at which it’s expedient for them to stand up to racism, rather than exculpating their colleagues and employers, the country will be in safe hands.

ShariVari, Monday, 18 March 2019 08:10 (five days ago) Permalink

What's he done

Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 18 March 2019 08:45 (five days ago) Permalink

Suggested that people who work for newspapers without challenging their racist editorial lines, or work with racist colleagues without publicly repudiating their stories, are complicit in their racism.

ShariVari, Monday, 18 March 2019 08:50 (five days ago) Permalink

If they can’t understand valid points about racial bias in the media (plus the top-down ways it’s reinforced away from ‘lifestyle’ journalism and within it, too) and the role of ordinary workers (however high-profile these people are, most are only freelance writers) in perpetuating it, they’re just being arseholes to OJ for the sake of impressing their clique. I got piled on in a FB thread after mildly snarking about Jess Phillips’ opportunistic social climb to Spectator parties and a book deal via the method of denigrating Diane Abbott in public, and suddenly I was the villain for suggesting it’s bad to drink champagne in a garden with Taki.

suzy, Monday, 18 March 2019 08:52 (five days ago) Permalink

I don’t even like OJ but the way his colleagues pile on him & talk about him in public is disgraceful! Plus the way they refer to him as Squealer (an Animal Farm reference) is more than a bit homophobic and suggests they’re hiding behind plausible deniability to have that dig. But no, he’s the real problem.

gyac, Monday, 18 March 2019 11:12 (five days ago) Permalink

Oh, also, several of them were delightedly tweeting a video of him being called a wanker by a yellow vest - before it emerged that he’d been chased down the street by the same group of protesters who were shouting homophobic abuse at him. Yet him asking the press to hold themselves to any standards is “Trumpean”.

gyac, Monday, 18 March 2019 11:16 (five days ago) Permalink

Ron Liddle took a day off from the usual race-hate peddling yesterday in the ST for his other pet subject: that made up condition ME and the pathetic malingerers who claim to be afflicted with it. He needs to be put down in most brutally painful fashion rather than OJ (who I think is a complete wazzock as well tbh!).

calzino, Monday, 18 March 2019 11:19 (five days ago) Permalink

Today: why does Owen Jones talk about the media like it applied to everybody? Saturday: have you seen Janice Turner's fantastic piece about the left?

— The Justin Horton Show (@ejhchess) March 18, 2019

the other half of this is that you’ll see many of the same columnists piling in to have a pop at OJ - who is just one person - RTing their scummy mates at the Times going full culture war on trans people. Like Jan1c3 Turn3r afaict is employed by the Times to churn out scaremongering shit about trans people - and most of the pearl clutchers are fully on that train & spouting off that people who support trans rights are the real misogynists.

gyac, Monday, 18 March 2019 11:24 (five days ago) Permalink

Exactly. And let’s not forget JT’s husband is Exec Ed of the Sunday Times, so it’s up to him what goes in the paper. BTW, his father was Peter Preston, so I bet he rates himself as ‘liberal’.

suzy, Monday, 18 March 2019 11:42 (five days ago) Permalink

Urgh

Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 18 March 2019 11:48 (five days ago) Permalink

They forget the whole seeking truth aspect of journalism, eh.

Never changed username before (cardamon), Monday, 18 March 2019 11:49 (five days ago) Permalink


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