― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Saturday, 17 September 2005 07:55 (eighteen years ago) link
I don't consider Live Skull *more* challenging than Swans / SY, but they are *as* challenging - though I think we're using "challenging" in different ways. Sonic Youth and Swans may have been more abrasive / difficult to listen to, but Live Skull were harder to "take in," which caused a lot of people to dismiss them. This is kind of difficult to explain, so bear with me...
Although they don't sound anything alike, Live Skull at their best are similar to Captain Beefheart circa Trout Mask Replica. The different musical parts interlock in ways that make it difficult to take in a song as a whole. Once you start to understand what each musician is playing, the joy of listening to the music is derived in part from hearing how the parts interact - listening "through" the music, rather than "to" it. Live Skull may seem like facile mopey goth-rock at first blush, but there's a lot more going on in those grooves.
IMO the Mark C/Paine/Greenholz/Lo lineup perfected this approach on Cloud One / Don't Get Any On You, although a lot of people prefer the Thalia lineup. As mentioned several times upthread, they are very different. Dusted is a funny record because the difference between the C/Paine/Greenholz/Lo and Zedek/C/Paine/Greenholz/Hutchins lineups is unmistakable as you go from track to track. It's a spotty listen but a great example of the effects of the lineup change.
I guess I'll throw in that a couple of my friends hated Live Skull until Don't Get Any On You came out. The studio albums are pretty sterile, but DGAOY proves that Live Skull live was a wild + untamed black windtunnel of sound. If I can digitize them, I'll try to upload Pusherman and The Loved One from DGAOY - they crap heavy all over the studio versions.
Thurston Moore weighed in on the influence Live Skull had on Sonic Youth in the SY bio that was published, and here's Martin Bisi from a 1993 interview....
Alternative Press: Is there a personal favorite of the records you've worked on?
Martin Bisi: We took a lot of chances on Live Skull's Dusted. It almost goes too far. There's a lot of mystery in what the different instruments are doing.
and are a couple more YSI files...
X w/ the Light (from Dusted)http://s47.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0L2ZK9XOEQTZP1OTJJ2ALM6HCE(if you've ever spent time in NYC, the chorus of "I cross with the light / I cross with the light / I cross with the light / Run, little animals" should strike a chord)
Jerking the Light (from Bringing Home The Bait)http://s46.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1NPUQM7EBG1B73J6192XW0M5E9(great example of James Lo both playing the beat and playing around the beat here)
― Edward III (edward iii), Monday, 19 September 2005 15:52 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 September 2005 16:40 (eighteen years ago) link
― Alex in NYC (vassifer), Monday, 19 September 2005 16:47 (eighteen years ago) link
Personally, I love the very first Live Skull record. I got sick of waiting for a CD release and converted my tape copy (as well as Cloud Ten LP) to cd. Remastered myself. Sounds great!
The first record also has one of my all time favorite covers.
Check out Rat at Rat R's 'Rock is Dead' LP too, it's killer.
Anyone remember that White Zombie used to be an amazing Downtown scuzz band before the disco metal?
― Mars Hottentot, Thursday, 29 September 2005 21:07 (eighteen years ago) link
Friends had the first White Zombie LP when it came out - as I remember even then it seemed a bit too metal for me at the time, but my tastes have shifted and I might like it now. And, yes, their transition to the mall-metal T-shirt aristocracy was a bit of a surprise.
― Soukesian, Thursday, 29 September 2005 22:27 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Thursday, 29 September 2005 23:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― scott seward (scott seward), Thursday, 29 September 2005 23:54 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 30 September 2005 01:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― Soukesian, Friday, 30 September 2005 06:22 (eighteen years ago) link
White Zombie were a pretty popular 2nd wave NYC noise band (along with Pussy Galore), but I never got into them. Thought there was too much image and not enough music. I've actually sold a couple of copies of the Soulcrusher LP for good money on eBay. There are another set of records that will never see the light of day on CD (Psycho Head Blowout and Soulcrusher) - Rob Zombie hates 'em. "Ratmouth" from Soulcrusher is great, great song, though, worth hearing at least once.
― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 30 September 2005 16:20 (eighteen years ago) link
― hstencil (hstencil), Friday, 30 September 2005 16:26 (eighteen years ago) link
― Edward III (edward iii), Friday, 30 September 2005 16:39 (eighteen years ago) link
― Bill Weisner, Monday, 10 October 2005 22:28 (eighteen years ago) link
2nd Rat At Rat R album is self titled and is on CD, though hard to find. Much more hard rock than the first. It's uneven, but has a coupla killer songs, kinda prog-noise with metal flirtations. One of these tracks, "Larry Facedown," is pretty essential.
There's an otherwise unreleased and pretty good RARR song called "The Way" on a compilation called Manhattan On the Rocks (also home to a great Big Stick track). As I understand it, there's also a tape of a very early incarnation of the group, before they moved to NYC. Never heard it.
I've been in touch with part of the band recently. Apparently there've been talks of a reunion, etc. but one member is MIA.
― dlp9001, Monday, 10 October 2005 22:54 (eighteen years ago) link
http://idisk.mac.com/mysticalbeast/Public/Asshole.mp3 from the first album.
http://idisk.mac.com/mysticalbeast/Public/LarryFacedown.mp3 from the second.
1st one builds to a pretty great climax before dissolving into scrapes and buzzes and always reminded me a bit of Gira fronting early SY. 2nd is less noisy, more hard rock after a longish intro. Still surprising the extent to which this band fell off the map. Pretty powerful stuff at high volume.
― dlp9001, Tuesday, 11 October 2005 08:35 (eighteen years ago) link
― m coleman (lovebug starski), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 08:53 (eighteen years ago) link
― zaxxon25 (zaxxon25), Tuesday, 11 October 2005 15:51 (eighteen years ago) link
― brendan sullivan, Sunday, 16 October 2005 01:39 (eighteen years ago) link
Have all of their vinyl, but have been looking for the early stuff on CD.
Peace.
― Ron M, Sunday, 11 December 2005 03:12 (eighteen years ago) link
http://whatididwaswrong.com/cloudone.htm
Found this link to one of their best works. Opening track from Cloud One. Recorded live. I've seen them make a few jaws drop playing this live years ago.
P.S. you must listen to this LOUD on a good system that can handle the low bass, and the guitar trebble. If it's not loud enough to feel........None of that IPod, ear-bud business, serious listeners only....:-) enjoy!
― Ron M (Ron M), Sunday, 11 December 2005 04:52 (eighteen years ago) link
(Possible title for new thread: Can we trust rock critics' concept of fun?)
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Sunday, 11 December 2005 23:57 (eighteen years ago) link
― Gregory Robinson, Wednesday, 21 December 2005 17:51 (eighteen years ago) link
Fort B was a lucky grab. Unfortunately, none of the early OEM LS seems to be out there.
I have all the early vinyl (somewhere) and will try to digitize it.
I'll check with Mark C, a friend of a friend, to see if he's cool with this.
― Ron M (Ron M), Saturday, 21 January 2006 01:00 (eighteen years ago) link
― gregory robinson, Tuesday, 24 January 2006 16:07 (eighteen years ago) link
I am.
Had the chance to see Thalia with Come circa 1993. Nice show.
But the opener, Caroliner, were from another world. Anyone here ever see them? They were a San Fran band, if I remember correcly. In any case, all of the members of Caroliner were dressed in masks and the entire stage (at the Lounge Ax in chicago) was decorated.
All I really remember was that the singer seemed to shriek a lot and generally make a lot of noise. Very odd, but great fun.
― tate (Tate), Tuesday, 24 January 2006 22:17 (eighteen years ago) link
http://ciberia.ya.com/deepfb/almudeno69.htm
almudeno69_at_yahoo.com
― almudeno69, Wednesday, 25 January 2006 12:23 (eighteen years ago) link
Caroliner....... C/D?
― NickB (NickB), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 12:28 (eighteen years ago) link
― tate (Tate), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 15:51 (eighteen years ago) link
He's on the Int'l Shades Hash Wednesday album, which I played several months ago, liked, and then forgot about, so I'm glad this thread is reminding me to listen again. "Time Out magazine describes the band as 'post-punk psychedelia,'" which may be the single lamest blurb I've read in my life. The band uses a lot of complicated interpolations that register as "playful" rather than "complicated," and I think the crucial adventure in this music is in its song forms and harmonic layers. Mark plays guitar and does most of the lead vocals, stripping his voice of all mannerism, which I find a strange choice; I wonder if the music might not be better with a self-involved drama queen in front. (If Lindsay Lohan gets dropped by her label, Int'l Shades could offer her the slot.) But the singing is probably made deliberately characterless so that the melodies and intervals can shine through, the voice intended to be transparent. And maybe that's what works best.
"Post-punk psych" might just mean "Fall fan who likes dreaminess, toys, and the occasional fuzz-tone."
"ILM describes the band as 'Fall fans who also like dreaminess, toys, and the occasional fuzz-tone.'"
I hope this further disputes the idea that Live Skull were grim.
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 18:55 (eighteen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 19:04 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Wednesday, 25 January 2006 19:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― gregory robinson, Friday, 27 January 2006 18:08 (eighteen years ago) link
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Friday, 27 January 2006 18:16 (eighteen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Friday, 27 January 2006 18:37 (eighteen years ago) link
― Dan Selzer (Dan Selzer), Friday, 27 January 2006 18:58 (eighteen years ago) link
Positraction is, to me, one of the only rock albums that goes beyond being emotionally cathartic music into something that feels like genuine TRAGEDY. The other albums that, for me, are in this category are Pet Sounds, Astral Weeks, and the Verlaines' Ready to Fly (another indie monolith that maybe, in part, did not get recognized as such because it was just another album put out near the end of their career).
― Tim Ellison (Tim Ellison), Saturday, 28 January 2006 04:27 (eighteen years ago) link
Petition some record label to release all their stuff on CD???
― sa, Sunday, 21 May 2006 06:19 (seventeen years ago) link
Wow...I've never ever heard anyone really put down Daydream Nation...and I love Live Skull...but...Daydream Nation to me is quite a masterpiece as well as the Sister album! I think Cloud One [not Cloud Nine as I and others wrote above!!!] and Bringing Home the Bait are better than Daydream Nation in some ways but not others...Daydream Nation is kind of a once in a lifetime kind of album that captures something in a way not many bands are *lucky*? enough to be able to do...
― sa, Sunday, 21 May 2006 06:23 (seventeen years ago) link
― david rat (davidrat), Monday, 26 June 2006 18:17 (seventeen years ago) link
― sleeve (sleeve), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:07 (seventeen years ago) link
― Edward III (edward iii), Monday, 26 June 2006 19:13 (seventeen years ago) link
Listening now to Positraction for the first time in 18 or 19 years (I bought the cassette in a cut-out bin ca. my senior year in high school with zero knowledge about them). It was too much for me at the time, but I just downloaded it and it's hitting all the right buttons.
In as few words as possible, what's the main difference between pre-Thalia and Thalia-inclusive versions of the band soundwise?
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 8 June 2008 13:24 (fifteen years ago) link
Never mind, this was pretty informative. Thanks, EIII
― Johnny Fever, Sunday, 8 June 2008 13:30 (fifteen years ago) link
These have been reissued in CD:
Cloud One (1986)Don't Get Any On You (1987)
The rest are waiting I think
I love LIVE SKULL
I have a CDR with the first mLP and various rarities,also live audio/video shows
wanted live video shows I don't have,just have these:
AUDIOpeel sessions 22-3-89 15Â’
7th st entry mlps 10-5-89 25' CASS
compilation of rarities,b-sides,first mLP,etc 75' CD-R *
funhouse,Denver 4-sep-96 30Â’ CASSknitting factory NYC 23-2-89 40' CASS
Folk City NY 27-7-83 30Â’
Hung Jury Pub,Washingtong DC 18-9-86 45Â’
limelight,kortrijk,Belgium 17-2-89 60' CASS
the rocket,providence,jan-89 30Â’ CASS
uconn,storrs CT 12-nov-88 30' CASSULU,London,UK 23-5-86 20' CASS
VIDEO(V)14-7-86 CBGB,NY 46' (V)5-D clip(V)skullfuck (o) 40'(V)Axis,Forth Worth,Texas 21-4-89 120’-videophile-(o)?
― almudeno, Thursday, 6 November 2008 13:47 (fifteen years ago) link
Mark C has a new project with Stuart from Ike Yard/Dominatrix and Alice Cohen of the Vels and various other projects...
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=417573830
― dan selzer, Thursday, 6 November 2008 15:19 (fifteen years ago) link
RONG
― Edward III, Thursday, 6 November 2008 15:39 (fifteen years ago) link
RITE
― Edward III, Thursday, 6 November 2008 16:11 (fifteen years ago) link
whoops
― Edward III, Thursday, 6 November 2008 16:13 (fifteen years ago) link
marnie is easily one of my top ten fave bass players in rock. god i love her so. fort belvedere was my total anthem when i was 16. it was everything that me and my brain were about.
i'm sad i don't have all my old vinyl. i still have cloud one and the live album on vinyl, but i no longer own the s/t, bringing home the bait, dusted, or swingtime. definitely regret getting rid of them. (i think i do have positraction on vinyl, but i never play it. i really am a s/t to dusted fan.)
― scott seward, Thursday, 6 November 2008 20:06 (fifteen years ago) link
I got Dusted on vinyl pretty cheaply Scott, shouldn't be too hard to replace that one. Not sure about the others.
― I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE UP TO (Colonel Poo), Friday, 7 November 2008 09:12 (fifteen years ago) link
fort belvedere was my total anthem when i was 16
That was the Live Skull first song I ever heard at about the same age cos it was on the Wailing Ultimate compilation (how great was that record BTW? Il Duce, Repulsion, Sun God, I Remember, The Well, White Elephant... that and SST's Blasting Concept Vol II were my gateway drug to the whole US indie thing).
Dusted and Snuffer are my favourite Live Skull records though. Maybe it's just the power of suggestion of the sleeve photos for Dusted, but for quite dark records they also seem full of a lot of light, albeit a light that blinds.
― NickB, Friday, 7 November 2008 10:07 (fifteen years ago) link
― Frank Kogan (Frank Kogan), Wednesday, January 25, 2006 1:55 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark
okay hey slow reaction time but live skull were pretty fucking grim. mark c + marnie smiled about as frequently as michael gira, and while I'm not gonna say there wasn't a lot of ironic humor in what they were doing, the lyrical stance was as sour as the milk in a junkie's frigidaire. some exhibits:
what I did was wrong, I'll erase myself
little tern little tern little tern, o where will you go nowwith your dress hiked up above your waist and your legs tossed loose in shameless gracethere a soft stain on the carpet where the couch meets the living room floorthere's a dead man in the hallway and his name is on the door
you said it would be different with this rope around my neck... but it's really nothing special... what else is there?
you know I'm coming to wreck your lifeto tear your face offdrive a stake through the heart of your loved one
once glass has been spit onit's gonna get smashedbut I'm gonna get you all when I flake outyeah I'm gonna get you all when I flake out
I go to the doctorhe lies me on the tabletakes out his speculumcold thrust of steelinfecting my organsthis is my conditionthis is my conditionthis is my conditionthis is my condition
woo hoo party on live skull!
― Edward III, Saturday, 22 November 2008 05:23 (fifteen years ago) link
If I may be so bold, what Live Skull, even James 'n' Marnie era Live Skull, had that none of the other NY noise-sters did/do, is pop. Despite their walls of noise, those songs are full of hooks -- try getting "Fort Belvedere" out of your head once it gets in. And in contrast to the drawn-out sonic explorations of Sonic Youth, L.S. KNEW where they were going, so their songs are a bit more succinct. You can drive youself crazy asking why Dave Grohl is a billionaire and Tom Paine works at Taco Bell, but truly, if there were any justice in this world, Live Skull would be universal overlords of us all.
― imera, Saturday, 7 February 2009 02:25 (fifteen years ago) link
i dunno, i love the skull, but it seems super obvious why they never made any money
― dagmar at full power (contenderizer), Saturday, 7 February 2009 07:05 (fifteen years ago) link
Looks like Bringing Home The Bait and the first EP have both just been reissued by some French label with a bunch of bouns tracks. Both up on Spotify to. Apparently the rest of the albums will follow...
http://desirerecords.bigcartel.com/artist/live-skull
― trippin' on brostep beats (NickB), Monday, 29 July 2013 10:17 (ten years ago) link
Just pressed play on Bringing Home The Bait, sounds oddly contemporary thanks to the Savages album.
― trippin' on brostep beats (NickB), Monday, 29 July 2013 10:19 (ten years ago) link
It sounds absolutely fucking great and a joy to hear once again, but you knew that already.
― trippin' on brostep beats (NickB), Monday, 29 July 2013 10:21 (ten years ago) link
I bought a copy of Snuffer a few weeks ago.
― Trip Maker, Monday, 29 July 2013 14:38 (ten years ago) link
Snuffer is underrated I think, Step is one of my favourite songs by them.
― trippin' on brostep beats (NickB), Monday, 29 July 2013 14:40 (ten years ago) link
this version. THE BASS!!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Mayn9DAro4
― scott seward, Monday, 29 July 2013 14:48 (ten years ago) link
played that so many times in 1983. over and over and over. couldn't get enough. it kills the studio version.
― scott seward, Monday, 29 July 2013 14:49 (ten years ago) link
I don't actually know that first EP at all. That one wasn't on Homestead was it? Don't think that many copies would've made it to Europe.
― trippin' on brostep beats (NickB), Monday, 29 July 2013 14:53 (ten years ago) link
BTW, the French label doing this reissue also recently put out an album by o13 who are Mark C's latest project (along with Stuart from Ike Yard)
― trippin' on brostep beats (NickB), Monday, 29 July 2013 14:58 (ten years ago) link
oh and to be clear that youtube is the superior live speed trials verson of the song not the EP version of the song.
― scott seward, Monday, 29 July 2013 15:28 (ten years ago) link
twenty years behind schedule, but these sound fucking great. all of my neighbors just listened to Age of Oil and Wax (they will thank me later, I'm sure).
― Hellhouse, Monday, 29 July 2013 23:46 (ten years ago) link
Heck yeah
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Pe-c9t0jls
― timellison, Monday, 23 April 2018 02:29 (six years ago) link
https://youtu.be/2MtVFqpFxUE
There's no way ^this isn't one of the coolest songs of 1985. Bringing Home the Bait rules so hard
― the oxford book of chaos (Drugs A. Money), Tuesday, 3 December 2019 12:29 (four years ago) link