http://www.goodplanet.info/eng/Zones/Agir/Bonnes-Pratiques/Monoprix-takes-the-train/(theme)/275/(secteur)/1197/
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:15 (twelve years ago) link
america should just invest in a giant, cross country pneumatic tube system
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:18 (twelve years ago) link
the fact that remy lives in a region where pineapples are not grown does not mean that the total emissions involved in getting him a pineapple is gonna be higher than something 'closer' that has a less efficient distribution path*
this is irrelevant. the article posted makes the assumption that if remy wants a local pineapple, the carbon emissions necessary to produce a pineapple locally will be greater than those from a pineapple imported from across the sea. However, if remy doesn't buy a pineapple, there are ZERO carbon emissions associated with his non-eating of said non-existent local pineapple. I raised this example to point out a key flaw in dude's assumptions.
pineapple from across the world vs. local beef.
this is an arbitrary and irrelevant comparison.
transportation costs should be incorporated into the math, they're just not as big as you'd assume ~in the big picture~, esp w/ enormous int'l shipments.
sure. but you're also acting like the ONLY argument for going local is an assumed reduction in carbon emissions from transportation, which is not the case. there are a number of other reasons to promote local food economies (genetic crop diversity, fewer and smaller outbreaks of food-borne diseases, a food supply not dependent on insane politics of far-flung regions, local control over the food supply re: pesticides, GMOs, etc.) There are a lot! It's not just some single-issue thing.
he's an environmental/agriculture econ grad student at berkeley who happened to write an article that got posted on this
I know some farmers, I know some agriculture professors, I know some chefs. they all disagree with this guy.
xp
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:22 (twelve years ago) link
I think ZS correctly pointed out somewhere upthread that to prepare for a future where transportation costs are going to be insane, it makes sense to invest in strengthening more local economies that are close to home. cuz when shit gets worse, those investments are going to become crucial.
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:23 (twelve years ago) link
well I guess if you *know some chefs* I just can't win this one
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
You can't win this one because your argument is terrible.
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:24 (twelve years ago) link
guys, lets not fight over pineapple
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:26 (twelve years ago) link
man in re: ashtrays upthread, if 100% of your ashtrays aren't stolen or thrift-stored u r 100% chump imo
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:27 (twelve years ago) link
and here i came to argue with that article
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:27 (twelve years ago) link
what if all my ashtrays are made by my 4 yo out of clay
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:28 (twelve years ago) link
Where did the clay come from?
― Fig On A Plate Cart (Alex in SF), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:30 (twelve years ago) link
is your 4yo locally sourced xpGAH
― BIG HOOS aka the steendriver, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:30 (twelve years ago) link
idk I think iatee is arguing that, in the short term, and from a purely economics standpoint, there are situations where eating local is not necessarily gonna lead to lower emissions in that short timeframe.
but there are plenty of arguments for the 30 year view that say yes, we do need to build up local infrastructure and that while in the short term carbon emission may be higher in the long term it'll pay off
esp. once the polar ice caps melt and NYC is underwater and oh God I'm gonna go buy 10000 boxes of canned sardines right now
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:30 (twelve years ago) link
best ashtray = balled up piece of aluminum foil that is still covered in the grease from the chicken that laid on it the night before
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:31 (twelve years ago) link
lol I sucked ass at ceramics in high school and plus I was high a lot of the time so I couldn't really get my shit centered in any way. like not even to make the most basic vase. so when whatever I was trying to build collapsed after 45 minutes of struggle, I'd take a pencil and make 4 notches in it. there was a freshman kid who I was friendly with (I was a senior iirc) and by the end of the semester he'd be stopping by my wheel looking at the rising Grecian urn and he's say "this is going to be an ashtray right" and I'd think man they grow these kids smart these days
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:32 (twelve years ago) link
they probably mold them on a wheel
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:33 (twelve years ago) link
idk I think iatee is arguing that, in the short term, and from a purely economics standpoint, there are situations where eating local is not necessarily gonna lead to lower emissions in that short timeframe.but there are plenty of arguments for the 30 year view that say yes, we do need to build up local infrastructure and that while in the short term carbon emission may be higher in the long term it'll pay offesp. once the polar ice caps melt and NYC is underwater and oh God I'm gonna go buy 10000 boxes of canned sardines right now --dayo
esp. once the polar ice caps melt and NYC is underwater and oh God I'm gonna go buy 10000 boxes of canned sardines right now --dayo
I don't think the ~let's be good consumers~ approach is very effective in the big picture, it just lets people in sf drive their cars to pick up a 'local apple' and feel like they're making a difference. it's always bay area ppl w/ this feel good consumer stuff but when measures to boost density or whatever come up they defend their sprawly wonderland. priorities!
someone should always be able to buy a pineapple. it'll be more expensive.
― iatee, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:46 (twelve years ago) link
t's always bay area ppl w/ this feel good consumer stuff but when measures to boost density or whatever come up they defend their sprawly wonderland.
lol what is this strawmanning
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:49 (twelve years ago) link
this is my sustainable farming-obsessed academic buddy. he lives in Michigan
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
Michelle Obama is from Chicago iirc
I agree though, everybody should just buy less stuff, here's a protip, that pineapple is gonna taste 10x as good if you know that you can only eat it twice a year
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:50 (twelve years ago) link
like I remember how this board hipped me to alphonso mangoes, and man those are great mangoes, and why they are great is because you can only get them in may/june, and then you can't ever have them until next year, you might die before then! What an exciting mango
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:51 (twelve years ago) link
i dont even like pineapple all that much, tbh
― max, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:51 (twelve years ago) link
when measures to boost density or whatever come up they defend their sprawly wonderland
also lol I have no idea what this is in reference to. people are always building shit in SF.
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:52 (twelve years ago) link
I work next to some ridiculous condo developments that are like 100 stories tall
― The Uncanny Frankie Valley (Shakey Mo Collier), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
man iatee I've been avoiding this thread specifically so as not to beef with you but like...in the 1600s, one could not really have foreseen the impact of widespread literacy. but it's really a great thing that literacy took hold; little of what we hold dear would be possible if literacy hadn't caught on. shopping local now may not change things on any appreciable scale over the next one hundred or two hundred years, and no-one questions that other measures are needed to correct/offset/change the effects of human behavior on the environment/earth/humans-at-large. but the sideline-sitting "oh, this doesn't solve everything and some strawman thinks it does" pooh-poohing that goes on with literally every "what might people try?" effort is so depressing, cynical and disheartening. the long-term effects of a locally-first outlook might well be an entirely different world that we can't really even imagine from here. No, it can't be mapped out on a spreadsheet, but the effect of, you'll forgive me, thinking differently about things - even if the vehicle that gets people toward different thinking is ineffective/a panacea/less-than-ideal - is longer term than I think you have in mind, and of considerable value viewed through that lens.
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:53 (twelve years ago) link
xxxxxxp I like in the Little House books how the girls get one orange a year, at Christmas, and it's like an angel came down to the prairie (sustainably) and dropped them off, that's how good they taste.
― It means why you gotta be a montague? (Laurel), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:55 (twelve years ago) link
ban max imo btw
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 22:56 (twelve years ago) link
you want me to get really controversial?
hawaiian pizza is really good
― max, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:09 (twelve years ago) link
I like in the Little House books how the girls get one orange a year, at Christmas
Very true of much of the West in the 19th century
― Do you know what the secret of comity is? (Michael White), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:10 (twelve years ago) link
lol I can't front back when I ate meat I would straight up fight any motherfucker who hated on a hawaiian pizza
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:11 (twelve years ago) link
did 5 years for involuntary on a guy who seized up after he received my defense-of-hawaiian-pizza haymaker
ppl are so weird about it
― max, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
I brought a pineapple to Reno just to save on carbon emissions
― dayo, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:12 (twelve years ago) link
reminds me, I should poll if sweet + savory is an acceptable taste combo
haha, i try to stay on the sidelines of food polls, not that im successful, but i dont think i could deal with people who cant do sweet and savory togeth
― max, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:13 (twelve years ago) link
meat+fruit is such a classic combo
― max, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:15 (twelve years ago) link
that is the g.d. truth. been v into meat + plums experiments as of late. mmmm boy
― arby's, Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:26 (twelve years ago) link
sausage and peaches
― ah, how quaint (Matt P), Tuesday, 15 November 2011 23:28 (twelve years ago) link
I don't eat meat but sweet + savory is godlike! although I will fess up, in my meat days I was a "please don't put the sausage/bacon on the same plate with the pancakes" dude and I cannot get down with the idea of letting maple syrup infect the sausage/bacon though now it is a moot point
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 01:52 (twelve years ago) link
think you just threw down some gauntlets there - that is going to come back to haunt you when you are running for state office in 20 years, nobody is gonna elect somebody who was squeamish at the idea of a maple syrup crossover into the sausage/bacon compartment
― dayo, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 01:55 (twelve years ago) link
god aero just when i think we have some common ground
― max, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:04 (twelve years ago) link
I think we actually did this one once max! when I ate meat I really liked sausage and bacon a LOT. putting maple syrup on them for me would have been like dipping good sushi in tabasco.
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:06 (twelve years ago) link
yeah pork + maple = totally acceptable and not at all a crisis, what is your prob
you don't like put the syrup *on* the sausage, it just sorta oozes over and mixes in a little bit
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:07 (twelve years ago) link
aero do you not eat any BBQ sauce on any of your vegetarian foods?
― average internet commentator (remy bean), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:09 (twelve years ago) link
ppl wanna hate on my now and laters and then let syrup get on their sausage
savages, savages all
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:09 (twelve years ago) link
lol nice try, I do eastern NC style (vinegar, not tomato-based) BBQ
― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:11 (twelve years ago) link
this about you being from california, isnt it. you just dont understand maple syrup. its okay!
― max, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:11 (twelve years ago) link
I had maple bacon ice cream once, even. That actually wasn't that good. I don't think there's ultimately a way to incorporate bits of bacon into a dessert without it just seeming forced.
― whoop, up the butt it goes (silby), Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:12 (twelve years ago) link
maple walnut is maybe top 5 of all time
― dayo, Wednesday, 16 November 2011 02:13 (twelve years ago) link