craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

they probably mold them on a wheel

idk I think iatee is arguing that, in the short term, and from a purely economics standpoint, there are situations where eating local is not necessarily gonna lead to lower emissions in that short timeframe.

but there are plenty of arguments for the 30 year view that say yes, we do need to build up local infrastructure and that while in the short term carbon emission may be higher in the long term it'll pay off

esp. once the polar ice caps melt and NYC is underwater and oh God I'm gonna go buy 10000 boxes of canned sardines right now
--dayo

I don't think the ~let's be good consumers~ approach is very effective in the big picture, it just lets people in sf drive their cars to pick up a 'local apple' and feel like they're making a difference. it's always bay area ppl w/ this feel good consumer stuff but when measures to boost density or whatever come up they defend their sprawly wonderland. priorities!

someone should always be able to buy a pineapple. it'll be more expensive.

t's always bay area ppl w/ this feel good consumer stuff but when measures to boost density or whatever come up they defend their sprawly wonderland.

lol what is this strawmanning

this is my sustainable farming-obsessed academic buddy. he lives in Michigan

Michelle Obama is from Chicago iirc

I agree though, everybody should just buy less stuff, here's a protip, that pineapple is gonna taste 10x as good if you know that you can only eat it twice a year

like I remember how this board hipped me to alphonso mangoes, and man those are great mangoes, and why they are great is because you can only get them in may/june, and then you can't ever have them until next year, you might die before then! What an exciting mango

i dont even like pineapple all that much, tbh

when measures to boost density or whatever come up they defend their sprawly wonderland

also lol I have no idea what this is in reference to. people are always building shit in SF.

xp

I work next to some ridiculous condo developments that are like 100 stories tall

man iatee I've been avoiding this thread specifically so as not to beef with you but like...in the 1600s, one could not really have foreseen the impact of widespread literacy. but it's really a great thing that literacy took hold; little of what we hold dear would be possible if literacy hadn't caught on. shopping local now may not change things on any appreciable scale over the next one hundred or two hundred years, and no-one questions that other measures are needed to correct/offset/change the effects of human behavior on the environment/earth/humans-at-large. but the sideline-sitting "oh, this doesn't solve everything and some strawman thinks it does" pooh-poohing that goes on with literally every "what might people try?" effort is so depressing, cynical and disheartening. the long-term effects of a locally-first outlook might well be an entirely different world that we can't really even imagine from here. No, it can't be mapped out on a spreadsheet, but the effect of, you'll forgive me, thinking differently about things - even if the vehicle that gets people toward different thinking is ineffective/a panacea/less-than-ideal - is longer term than I think you have in mind, and of considerable value viewed through that lens.

xxxxxxp I like in the Little House books how the girls get one orange a year, at Christmas, and it's like an angel came down to the prairie (sustainably) and dropped them off, that's how good they taste.

i dont even like pineapple all that much, tbh

ban max imo btw

you want me to get really controversial?

hawaiian pizza is really good

I like in the Little House books how the girls get one orange a year, at Christmas

Very true of much of the West in the 19th century

you want me to get really controversial?

hawaiian pizza is really good

lol I can't front back when I ate meat I would straight up fight any motherfucker who hated on a hawaiian pizza

did 5 years for involuntary on a guy who seized up after he received my defense-of-hawaiian-pizza haymaker

ppl are so weird about it

I brought a pineapple to Reno just to save on carbon emissions

reminds me, I should poll if sweet + savory is an acceptable taste combo

haha, i try to stay on the sidelines of food polls, not that im successful, but i dont think i could deal with people who cant do sweet and savory togeth

meat+fruit is such a classic combo

that is the g.d. truth. been v into meat + plums experiments as of late. mmmm boy

sausage and peaches

I don't eat meat but sweet + savory is godlike! although I will fess up, in my meat days I was a "please don't put the sausage/bacon on the same plate with the pancakes" dude and I cannot get down with the idea of letting maple syrup infect the sausage/bacon though now it is a moot point

think you just threw down some gauntlets there - that is going to come back to haunt you when you are running for state office in 20 years, nobody is gonna elect somebody who was squeamish at the idea of a maple syrup crossover into the sausage/bacon compartment

god aero just when i think we have some common ground

I think we actually did this one once max! when I ate meat I really liked sausage and bacon a LOT. putting maple syrup on them for me would have been like dipping good sushi in tabasco.

yeah pork + maple = totally acceptable and not at all a crisis, what is your prob

you don't like put the syrup *on* the sausage, it just sorta oozes over and mixes in a little bit

aero do you not eat any BBQ sauce on any of your vegetarian foods?

ppl wanna hate on my now and laters and then let syrup get on their sausage

savages, savages all

aero do you not eat any BBQ sauce on any of your vegetarian foods?

lol nice try, I do eastern NC style (vinegar, not tomato-based) BBQ

this about you being from california, isnt it. you just dont understand maple syrup. its okay!

I had maple bacon ice cream once, even. That actually wasn't that good. I don't think there's ultimately a way to incorporate bits of bacon into a dessert without it just seeming forced.

maple walnut is maybe top 5 of all time

man in re: ashtrays upthread, if 100% of your ashtrays aren't stolen or thrift-stored u r 100% chump imo

― unlistenable in philly (underrated aerosmith bootlegs I have owned), Tuesday, November 15, 2011 4:27 PM (3 hours ago) Bookmark

otm

this about you being from california, isnt it. you just dont understand maple syrup. its okay!

actually I think it probably is Cali-based. I dig maple syrup but I don't have ~feelings~ for it like I do for, you know, mole poblano....which is a sweet/savory sauce smh

I think I detect a bit of thread drift here.

^^^
quality artisinal thread policing

More like disorientation, such as when emerging from the bathroom and finding the decor has been changed on you.

o damn we are talking about maple syrup from heritage ranked trees collected by purebred nuns on steamed-birch sleds with hand-hammered spigots and spider-silk sap-pipes

...plus Happy Hour is over, the menu has changed, the lighting is different, and all the waitstaff has donned bowties.

hand-crafted bow-ties made from the virgin pubes of indigenous African pubescents

I see. Well then, carry on.

here I will dedrift

man iatee I've been avoiding this thread specifically so as not to beef with you but like...in the 1600s, one could not really have foreseen the impact of widespread literacy. but it's really a great thing that literacy took hold; little of what we hold dear would be possible if literacy hadn't caught on.

it's appropriate you bring up the 1600s cause ultimately this has roots in this weirdo historical rural-fetishism - the local farmer w/ a small plot of land is some noble creature from another age and we need to support him. etc. etc.

but the effect of, you'll forgive me, thinking differently about things - even if the vehicle that gets people toward different thinking is ineffective/a panacea/less-than-ideal - is longer term than I think you have in mind, and of considerable value viewed through that lens.

right but I don't actually see very many people ~thinking differently~ about the big picture 'how our society works' macro-level efficiencies, instead they're bogged down by this or that micro-level thing - "what was the path of one particular object I bought."

shopping local now may not change things on any appreciable scale over the next one hundred or two hundred years, and no-one questions that other measures are needed to correct/offset/change the effects of human behavior on the environment/earth/humans-at-large.

right and I'm more concerned about...the next 20 years

again:

a. most of the greenhouse gas emissions come from production stages, and small scale farms are just as likely to have *worse* emissions during these stages because they don't have a lot of the efficiencies that a large scale operation has. 10 farmers have to buy 10 trucks vs. 1 farmer w/ a really, really big truck. (etc.)

b. emissions from you doing your shopping w/ a car are generally gonna exceed the emissions from the distribution chain. it seems counterintuitive that the 'last mile' that you drove to the store is worse than the 500 miles your coffee traveled to get here, but the coffee traveled w/ many other things as part of a v. efficient network.

c. I don't think buying local is a 'bad thing' it's just not a great thing to spend that much time talking about / rewarding yourself for. for certain things buying local will make economic sense in its own time. I don't buy the zs argument that we need to start early - if small farms are the answer, they have (in the big picture) very small start-up costs and don't require much resources to be allocated towards them. whereas adapting our urban landscape to the 21st century would prob require, idk, the entire gdp at this point. so yeah, it's a better thing to get people talking about.

very many resources to be*

if you can't eat dessert of your dinner plate by now, you should just give up

off*

local food still a bit of a drift from the original thread topic tbh but that's ok