Salsa is dead, reggaeton is dead: Long live the rolling Afro-Latin music thread 2009

x-post. Someone should probably start a duranguese, banda, Tex-Mex, norteno, mariachi thread although it probably would not have many folks posting on it. A (one-time? or still) Village Voice contributor known here on ILX as Dr. Phil used to post some about duranguese (but he should not be confused with unperson Phil who likes metal, African, avante-jazz, and some salsa and also writes for the Voice)

RS, where do you think such postings should go?

RS, where do you think such postings should go?

Straight to hell. No, but I am trying to keep this thread Afro-Latin. All that Mexican stuff is a very different thing, and should either have its own thread or go on the whirled music thread.

But I'm not going to be all gestapo about it if it comes up here occasionally.

it'd be entertaining to see how many posts a rolling duranguense/norteno thread would get -- maybe 5! but i think i'll just post it to the whirled thread.

Oh, RS, stop playing down your Gestapo connections. You've been doing that ever since Nuremberg. XD

The violins in Los Van Van are one of the things that makes their songs kind of sucky. There's lots of promise there, but those fucking violins! It's not just that they are violins, but how they are used, though I'm going to be inarticulate and not be able to say what that is exactly, at least for the moment.

I don't know if you know, but "Volvere" is sort of a Latin music standard. At any rate, it's widely covered. I'm pretty sure I've danced to it in one of its merengue versions.

Here's a version by Dominican merenguero Krisspy:

(It may for all I know be Mexican in origin. I don't know.) It seems like a song made to go with drinking, too.

There's lots of promise there

Like the coro, and perhaps the soneos, though I'm not 100% sold on them. Is this Mayito Rivera singing? I ask, as though someone here will know.

And the percussion is always fine except for the drum kit.

don't know if you know, but "Volvere" is sort of a Latin music standard.

i wondered about that. a little googling suggests it was written by some italian dudes in the '70s. hard to find much about it (at least, not written in english). anyway, it's a nice tune.

Annoying timba-style "rapping" (or what some prefer to call "chanting") in "Un tumbao pá los dos." It is absolutely the small genre mannerisms that bug me in timba, and it feels very much like a food preference, since I can't break down my reason for not liking it any further.

(Still talking about the new Van Van album. Why bother talking about something nobody is too interested in? Not that it's ever stopped me before. But I'm going to give an additional answer which is that this is a major band and a major release, so it seems worthy of attention on that level, though once I'm through the first preview I doubt I will go back and listen again. Too many obstacles to enjoyment.)

i only have a van van greatest hits, i'm not sure i need more than that. do i?

I'm not sure you need more than that either, but there are three tracks on Llego Van Van that are highly worthwhile.

I'll name them another time as the timer is timing me out and my PC is about to evaporate.

I have some Los Van Van on vinyl that I have not listened to in ages. But I also remember enjoying them alot live at a big outdoor show near DC (Wolf Trap Farm Park) way back when. I don't remember who was in the band then.

someone was listening to some stuff i had around the other day and was all "I LOVE THESE GUYS" thinking it was los van van, when it was really los soneros del barrio off the rough guide to salsa dura nyc comp.

FWIW, these are the three tracks I like (and really like) from Llego Van Van:

La Bomba Soy Yo
Somos Cubanos
Consuelate Como Yo

(The last is actually a Cuban oldie, I'm pretty sure, or at least incorporates part of a Cuban classic.)

Nice 2008 recording of Luisito Carrion singing oldie "Pa Bravo Yo" with Michael Stuart and I think that's Ismael Miranda as well (both mostly on additional percussion, actually).

I'm really happy Luisito Carrion is back on his feet and sounding good.

(We all love youtube.)

Michael Stuart doing "Fuego en el 23" (same concert apparently):

Those of you in NYC should run don't walk to see Samuel Torres tonight.

So I read something about Tito Puente complaining about somebody playing "Para los Rumberos" out of clave. I think it was here: http://pertout.customer.netspace.net.au/lclavetp.htm. This week it saw in a book that it was Carlos Santana!

i've been shedding timbales in preparation for (hopefully) some gigs with a latin jazz band. i used to listen to latin records with no idea of who was playing what so it's been nice to break it down (not that i'm an expert or anything now, but i think i can handle the gig)

Awesome. Maybe soon we'll be posting you to Drum geek sick chops youtube thread

Do you have one of these?

Listened to that Pulpo album once, sounded pretty solid.

Jordan, let me be a pest and ask you, do you play the cascara on those timbales?

In the next few years, Samuel Torres is going to mess you people up.

And then I will post a link to this thread to prove that I predicted it.

james, yes and yes

Cool. Never mind the jam block hataz.

I'm trying to ignore the Descarga (and Dusty Groove) hype as much as anybody else, but this Pulpo album is pretty good. Doesn't make me wish I listening to,say, Asalto Navideño instead.

Speaking of Asalto Navideño, I went ahead and bought the (apparently self-published) Irv Greenbaum memoir from Descarga and found it highly entertaining, particularly his James Brown anecdote and all the stories about when he thought he was sure he was going to get a little special mention at an awards ceremony from somebody like Harvey Averne or Eddie Palmieri but was denied.

Version of "La Murga" significantly different from the original- instrumental, more uptempo among other things.

the cascara
In my limited efforts to understand the clave in the past year, it was lightbulb over head time when I learned to start listening to the cascara. And the bell.

The song "Salsa Y Sabor" on Tito Puente's Para Los Rumberos, in particular the organ solo, sure reminds me of "Vamonos Pa'l Monte."

Tito Puente's 78s and stuff-

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/08/12/taking-care-of-tito-puentes-musical-legacy/

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/arts/music/11play.html?scp=3&sq=pareles%20january%2011&st=cse

Tito Puente never forgot that his band’s main job was to get people dancing: with romantic boleros, sinuous cha-chas and insistent mambos. His repertory was huge; he recorded more than 150 singles as 78s from 1949 to 1955. What makes the two newly released collections of “The Complete 78s” (Fania) — 40 each on Vol. 1 and the brassier but more uneven Vol. 2 — so enjoyable is how often and how far Mr. Puente went beyond the utilitarian. The masterly mesh of percussion, sleek horns and suave singers is a given. Beyond it are jazzy harmonic excursions, Afro-Cuban throwbacks, exotic travelogues and experimental stretches like “Vibe Mambo,” which presages Steve Reich — all packed into less than four minutes per track.-Jon Pareles

this thread gets the burt_stanton official seal of: i don't give a fuck

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. burt_stanton.

bruto stanton

Shakira at the Lincoln Memorial Sunday.

I got Vol 1 of the Tito Puente 78s right when it came out and listened to it once but then got distracted by some other stuff including the Alegre compilation and some of Tito's 116 other albums.

so ... la excelencia? i grabbed their first album off emusic (new one's not up there yet). i like it. i think i get what's dura about it, but i'm a dilettante on all this.

Shakira at the Lincoln Memorial Sunday.

Discussion of Shakira is banned from this thread.

I streamed that first La Excelencia album and didn't really like it that much. (I realize that's not the optimal way to check something out, but for a genre I'm as sympathetic to as salsa, it's generally enough to let me know what I think of something.) The fragments I've heard from the new one sound more appealing.

But anyway they get very good grades from many people who know more about salsa than I do, and I haven't given that first album a real listen in my stereo (but I still personally think they are overrated and find their coros, especially on the first album, a bit uninspiring).

I've been burned a lot by buying CDs by current New York salseros, so I am very suspicious of anything that comes out of New York these days, frankly. On the other hand, La Excelencia are genuinely a new group of musicians. They aren't part of the SHO/Soneros del Barrio pool of performers.

yeah, i admit their "newness" is part of what made me curious. the vocals don't particularly grab me out of the gate -- though they don't bother me -- but i like the grooves. which is about all i can sensibly say.

Jesse, did you end up going to the Blue Note last week?

nawp. spousal social plans interfered. my determination to see more live music this year is so far entirely theoretical...

Maybe one of these days you can come out with me on the Latin Jazz tip.

yeah i'd dig that. keep me posted on yr. outings.

La Excelencia may be new, but I don't hear them doing anything particularly new. Not that I demand that, just pointing it out. I still might be this new one, since it sounds more interesting to me than the first, from inadequate sampling anyway.

All right, Jesse, in a little bit I'm going to head up to Smoke to meet a friend to see the 10 o'clock set of Chris Washburne and the SYOTOS Band. Sorry for the late notice.

hey, i think i can make it to that. smoke is like 6 blocks from me. so yeah, i'll look for you.

Meanwhile in DC--courtesy of the Washington Post blog the Official Latino Inaugural Ball.

Hearing American Idol Season 7 runner-up David Archuleta sing the national anthem, for instance, wasn't quite as thrilling as watching Yerba Buena singer CuCu Diamante gyrating while wearing an American flag-patterned ball gown.

The '70s funk group War was the first act of the night, and the outfit ran through hits such as "The Cisco Kid" and "Why Can't We Be Friends?" During "Low Rider," the band was joined by comedian George Lopez, who played cowbell.

Mariachi Los Camperos de Nati Cano backed singers Michael Salgado, Elida Reyna, and Lila Downs. The band was one of the few acts that battled the venue's acoustics and won -- although all fought valiantly. The horns and strings sounded crisp despite the barrel-vaulted, 96-foot ceilings, which amplified every laugh, cheer, and shattering glass.

After the explosive Cucu Diamante/Yerba Buena set, golden girl Paulina Rubio emerged to sing a few songs, including "Ni Una Sola Palabra" and "Yo No Soy Esa Mujer." She was followed by balladeer Alejandro Sanz, who performed "Corazon Partio," and "Quisiera Ser."

By the time the night's marquee act, Marc Anthony, was introduced by his wife, Jennifer Lopez, the program was already about an hour and a half behind schedule. However, the salsero made the most his short time on stage. As he sung "Valio La Pena" and Hector Lavoe's "Mi Gente," Union Station's Main Hall turned into a massive dance floor.

-- SARAH GODFREY

I just went with my kid to the Lincoln Memorial event during the day (Shakira with Usher and Stevie Wonder on "Higher Ground," plus lots of baby-boomer pop-rock stuff, Bettyle Lavette w/ Jon Bon jovi, Mary J Blige...). Did not pay the big bucks for this. Unfortunately missed the unofficial Mambo for Obama and the Socarama with David Rudder and Alison Hinds.

(the new album)

I think that song might be more fun to sing/sing along with than to listen to, in general. (See Eddie Murphy.)

Bannakumbi: goddam, this album! So amazing. Not just one of the best salsa albums I've heard lately, blah blah blah, but one of the best albums I've heard lately, one of the best of the decade.

dunno if it was mentioned but the bannakumbi's "un nuevo dia" single made a top 2k9 list in the nyt, for ben ratliff

curmudgeon posted about that (first on another thread but then I thought he mentioned it here too). And I do semi-apologize for going on about it without actually saying anything new, but the album really does seem that good to me.

I'm not sure what semi-apologize really means, not a whole lot probably.

just came across it recently, i'm into it.

Ned Sublette e-mailed that Ángel Díaz (1921-2009), who died on December 22 a few hours shy of his 88th birthday, was a founder of the filin (or feeling) movement of romantic song in Cuba.

x-post. My copy of Bannakumbi and of the Tito Curet Alonso with various performers 2 cd Fania comp finally arrived from Desgarga. I am enjoying the Bannakumbi and will have to listen more.

That combination should provide lots of good listening. I'd be interested in more specific comments on the Bannakumbi album.

I nominated this Omega song in ILM's 2009 poll, mostly just as a representative merengue mambo track:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBQ9ITdQYN0

I like Omega's overall sound. I'm not sure it would hold my attention for a whole album. IMO, this new wave of street merengue, whatever you want to call it, is way more appealing than the nu-cumbia that has gotten more crossover attention, but it tends to be just as connected to hip-hop/R&B/non-Latin pop, etc. Nina had linked to an earlier Omega song, somewhere upthread, and of course I mostly know about the existence of this sound thanks to her. There is this collection which seems like a good beginner's guide (which is what I need):

http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/23517.10?Ptcnc4D6;;22163

or this one that casts a broader genre net:

http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/23814.10?Ptcnc4D6;;22166

I'd like to stop to marvel once again that merengue has existed as a popular dance music form since the mid-19th century. I don't know whether or not it dropped away for any extended periods of time, but that's still impressive. I'd be very interested in reading a book-length history of this music (spanning its entire life), but I don't think there are any in English.

This is a little late, but for those wanting to check out some Puerto Rican Christmas music:

http://kpfa.org/archive/id/57236

It starts confusingly with the tail end of another program.

curmudgeon, you nominated La Revolucion on the poll thread, but you've never once said anything about it here. I wish you would talk about stuff you like (that's relevant to this thread)!

I'm listening to the Choco Orta album again and I definitely like her voice. The weaks put about the album seem to me to be the arrangements that are overly stuffy/nostalgic at times (though not too extreme), the way the coro has the same degree of stridency in every song, and some of the choices of material to cover (well, "Ay José" in particular). But overall I think this is a really solid album, and Choco Orta shines on it.

I'd like to hear her do a whole album of boleros. The bolero "Con Mil Desengaños" is a standout cut for me.

re: bannakumbi
doubt i have anything to say that hasn't been already, but it is really well put together as a full album rather than just a couple of hot singles thrown together when you have the time to listen to it through (despite the anti-full album crowd) - the transitions, fading, ambient sounds in the background, the muffled heartbeat at the start of loco, all a nice touch. keeps making me think of the afghan whigs' "black love" in this context.

IMO, this new wave of street merengue, whatever you want to call it, is way more appealing than the nu-cumbia that has gotten more crossover attention, but it tends to be just as connected to hip-hop/R&B/non-Latin pop, etc

disclaimer: generally not a fan of nu-cumbia

but i'd argue nu-cumbia hasn't gotten too much crossover attention either, that mambo de la calle and nu-cumbia are on opposite sides of said crossover... nu-cumbia still comes off as a bunch of indie rock nerds turned danceheads making more dubstep (as apparently there is never enough dubstep?), and seems to stick with that crowd. you don't hear it out in dance clubs vs someone's dj night with no dancing and much head-nods. street merengue at least makes it to mainstream (albeit latin) radio (sony bmg's distributing omega), and the dancefloor, although it hasn't particularly made any rounds in the intellectualized dance music circles yet, give it time of course.

More dubstep sub-genres, please!

I agree, of course, about Un Nuevo Dia. It works extremely well as an album. Just listening to their myspace, one might get the impression that about half the album is going to sound like the title track and "No Se," but actually there's much more variety than that, and it all balances out. It is on the short side, but I'll take a relatively short album with such high-quality material over bloated mediocrity.

re: planet record's merengue urbano v1 2k9

i'm actually digging soundchek's comp of the same name a lot more - p.r.'s has a lot of standard stuff you'd probably hear out than soundchek's (although as mentioned above p.r.'s is more of a beginner's guide). there's some artist crossover but when there is, soundchek's choice is always a better track. one in particular i'm into is "hippo big" by fulanito (going as "dose rock"), out of washington heights - first track on his myspace. doesn't have the rave/electro thing going on as much as some good hip-hop mc'ing over it. never heard of this guy before but he seems to have been around before in a group named fulanito (seems to be solo now, his name being rafael fulanito vargas). used to be known for house + merengue.

I'm not too much into Fulanito, especially their newer stuff. I like some individual tracks a lot, but their albums are seriously uneven. I think Americanizao might have the best hit to miss ratio, of their albums, but I haven't dug into EPs and remixes if they get into that much.

Their re-make of "Sabado en la Noche" from their last album is excellent, but that was already a hit in its original form.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJoojuhOKlQ

This is another one I like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5W2xVvlIhc

and this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXRgE7QP-dA&feature=related

yeah, think i may be more into what he might be doing with his new solo? act than the old stuff.

wisin y yandel allegedly broken up (which i am totally fine with)

wisin y yandel allegedly broken up

The question is, will they continue to perform and make music together?

I am actually a fan, of the last two or three albums anyway (never heard the early early stuff), but my wife always laughs when their videos come on and insists they're secretly a couple.

unperson, I hope they make better music as solo acts than they have been making lately as a duo. unperson, when you say you've never heard their early stuff, how far back are we talking? Does early include P'al Mundo in your mind, or are you thinking of before that album (which I'm mostly unfamiliar with)? Because that's the one that's a benchmark for me, in terms of quality (not that I have actually heard everything on it, or not straight through anyway--but I just finally got around to ordering a copy in the past few days). I also like what I've heard from Los Vaqueros, but I think it's been really spotty since then, and not because I don't think they should change, but because I don't like the changes they've been making, or just simply whatever it is they have been doing. I know you disagree.

fauxmarc, okay, I guess I need to actually click on the link you posted and check out the new stuff.

I came on board with Pa'l Mundo, and not even the initial release, but the two-disc-plus-DVD deluxe edition, which I think was a year later. I've never heard anything from before that except for maybe a track or two on the Mas Flow compilations.

Rhumba!!! (@ 2:00)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgLWFNcRb9A

Afro-Latin Music Thread 2010: La Resurrección (salsa, merengue, bachata, reggaeton, cumbia, etc.)