craftsmanship, consumerism, virtue, privilege, and quality

it is "timeless" in a way that is very specific to it's own time

why does a toothbrush even need to be timeless??

i demand answers.

it is "timeless" in a way that is very specific to it's own time

SO TRUE. It is that moment's collective idea of what aesthetics of theirs will be "enduring". Is it just me or does that always result in phenomenally boring subjects being chosen?

It is truly timeless. A horsehair toothbrush in 2012 will look the same as a horsehair toothbrush did in 1900, 1800, or 1700. Or how it will look in 2200. Can you say this for a nylon toothbrush? No!

are horsehair sonicare refills avail

SO TRUE. It is that moment's collective idea of what aesthetics of theirs will be "enduring". Is it just me or does that always result in phenomenally boring subjects being chosen?

― one little aioli (Laurel), Monday, February 13, 2012 11:50 AM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

wow, OTM. one of the things that makes the midcentury stuff (that i guess we're now sneering at?) so wonderful to me is that it is so clearly and completely of its time. it bears no trace of false "timelessness" or quality-enhancing patina. it concentrates almost exclusively on its present moment (now vanished, of course), on the culture and materials of its day. but it's not cheap or thoughtless. it's imaginative, functional and often very well made. this gives it a clear identity that conjured "patina" cannot duplicate. the more we consciously try to reproduce qualities like authenticity or history, the more they recede.

this is why restoration hardware has always struck me as a cargo cult, a beeseching mock-up of a thing that was once thought to be valuable. like, if we can only get the age-wear details right, then the gods will return and our lives will be blessed with specificity, history and authenticity. fucking gross, imo. an ipod's a much more admirable and interesting piece of design than a throwback toothbrush.

I would say off-the-cuff-ly that mid-cent to 70s was probably the last time that design for living stuff was ever forward-looking. We haven't as fervently thought that the future would save us from ourselves since then, which has led to another 40 years of backward-looking faux-nostalgic design.

So...now we're nostalgic for the last design wasn't about nostalgia? I can't track where this is going anymore.

I think that depends on your definition of forward-looking. I think it's more that we've entered the pomo phase of things and there's not really 'one future' to look forward to and nobody thinks sleak design or whatever really represents 'an object in the future'. outside of tech. where it does more than ever.

So...now we're nostalgic for the last design wasn't about nostalgia? I can't track where this is going anymore.

yeah, absolutely. i'm guilty of it, but hopefully in a way that also allows me to be forward thinking. that's why i opposed ipods and horsehair toothbrushes in that last post. there's a lot of great, non-fussy contemporary design that isn't nostalgic (muji, for instance). and there's nothing wrong with liking old stuff, too.

I think there's a lot of contemporary stuff, in multiple levels, that's not necessarily nostalgic but has some knowledge of the past.

You can check one of the one zillion websites comparing the look of Apple products to Dieter Rams' design and a lot of furniture and office design is coming full circle and mimicking the open designs of the past instead of cubeville.

Brands like Muji and IKEA seem to make a number of products that throw out historical assumptions -- I think I saw more lights that were in form factors to intelligently accommodate LEDs than I've seen anywhere else. Meanwhile, most stores still sell traditional lamp shapes that take CFL or LED bulbs that have been retrofitted to fit in traditional sockets.

I think the most misinterpreted ideas are that minimalism will make things inherently good and that excellent materials make for good products.

I think it's more that we've entered the pomo phase of things and there's not really 'one future' to look forward to and nobody thinks sleak design or whatever really represents 'an object in the future'. outside of tech. where it does more than ever.

this is true. we're no longer as imaginatively future-oriented as we were in the early-to-mid 20th, and we're certainly more postmodern, reflective, fragmentary in how we construct past/present/future. but there's a lot of matter of fact future-in-presentness in contemporary design: type, ikea furniture, architecture, etc. we're no longer imagining what the next step is gonna look like and trying to conjure some of that gee-whiz in the present, but we are designing sensibly with an eye on the future impact of our decisions.

many of us still want our products, environments and lives to look as though they're contemporary, engaged with the moment and forward-thinking in some sense or other. even if we accessorize that present with horsehair bristles. a lot of that kind of stuff evokes "sustainability", after all, at least as much as the past. and sustainability is inherently future-focused.

sustainability is inherently future-focused

On the surface this is completely correct, but there's something here that I can't put my finger on that people tend to get wrong

I think there's a lot of contemporary stuff, in multiple levels, that's not necessarily nostalgic but has some knowledge of the past.

being aware of history and pining for an imagined past are two very different things, though. i mean, the case of the original ipods definitely evoked a displaced nostalgia for the future imagined in 2001: A Space Odyssey, but the functional design of ipods was nonetheless quite forward thinking. kind of a best of both worlds approach, imo.

you can totally exercise with it AND its a chair! how is that not forward-thinking?

http://www.dailyspark.com/blog_photos/452663656.jpg

'buying stuff doesn't help the world, no matter what you buy' is what people tend to get wrong xp

Yup, I meant that there are a lot of contemporary things that fit in the timeline but are not nostalgic. We're saying the same stuff. xxp

the thing is, you're going to end up buying stuff regardless, and some things you buy are better than others. additionally, buying some things now reduces or alters your later consumption

'you're gonna end up buying stuff regardless' isn't always true, mostly just a question of how much we 'need' to live / be happy / etc. sorta taking this off subject but I think that's the inherent contradiction in a lot of the sustainability-chic stuff

'what object can I buy to save the world'

horsehair toothbrushes would make those toothbrush up the ass urban myths more believable

http://vitanetonline.com/images/products/624.jpg

i use a heritage toothbrush, classic german design

What you may not know is that Fuchs is one of the original manufacturers of the ripple v bristle toothbrush always at the forefront of dental care technology. Fuchs has marketed this type of brush head worldwide for more than 40 years. Although billed as a new dental care discovery, ripple v bristles have been a successful part of the Fuchs line since the 1950s! They are still the best-selling bristle shape in the Fuchs product line.

it's made with boar bristles

Natural Bristle brushes actually come from a special breed of boar raised solely for its bristles. The bristles are carefully harvested using a process similar to the methods employed in shearing sheep. The boar are extremely well cared-for; their bristles are harvested repeatedly during their long lifetimes.

The bristles have different degrees of stiffness, depending upon from which part of the body they originate. This is why natural bristles can be supplied in soft, medium and hard variations. Although most bristles are a light beige color, occasionally some black bristles, noted for their stiffer texture, are used in natural bristle toothbrushes. Natural bristle brushes are generally considered to run one level softer than the comparable toothbrush in nylon. Thus, a soft natural brush is equivalent to an extra soft nylon one, a hard natural brush is equivalent to a medium nylon brush and so on. Natural bristle brushes are especially useful for people who require soft-bristled brushes to avoid damaging tooth enamel or sensitive gums.

i have those jeans with the poisonous python patch btw, they're okay

like, should I keep using my water heater (bad example, since few think of this as a prestige item like the thread concentrates on) from the 1970s, or should I relegate it to the landfill and get a new efficient one that reduces my power bill and total water usage?

live w/o a water heater

'you're gonna end up buying stuff regardless' isn't always true

man you gotta be a millionaire, what with never spending any money

how's that breatharianism going?

mh you have to ask yourself if the net energy savings outweigh the total energy cost of building a new water heater from scratch and trucking the old one to the landfill

I'm not saying we should all be breatharians! you just mentioned the inherent contradiction in sustainability

i use a heritage toothbrush, classic german design

this is the toothbrush i was describing earlier. i bought a fuchs about 5 years back. it was horrible. after a few weeks, it was leaving boar bristles in my teeth. never again.

how does the hole bored in the handle of the horsehair toothbrush contribute to the timelessness of its design, i ask you

we're sidetracking here, though.

can I use this thread to complain about restoration hardware some more? fuck that whole dynamic

the hole is for hanging up your toothbrush, duh

sorta taking this off subject but I think that's the inherent contradiction in a lot of the sustainability-chic stuff

well, sustainability is a very admirable goal, both in design and in life management. "sustainability chic" is more dubious, of course, but i'll take that over "profligate waste chic" any day.

i'm not really having problems like you describe with my boar bristle brush, though they definitely do need to be replaced more often than the nylon ones. fuchs makes nylon ones too, i buy either one depending on what's sitting on the shelf.

maybe you need to upgrade your toothpaste?

http://lh5.googleusercontent.com/public/3cK4A3pIuCjUpInjTmdlDu__5jYrhsULoCWQhF9LvQEGmRBiwPKjQ5rig6zSHX-ZOTUb7migTH0oA4hq3elF_iJDxQ1I_AfHjTgCkZX8u0sZORwjf2WXFdyHZ1EPNTfUrfT4o7S-BPo_i7A_sVFnGH7xEJmkQW7ikoKSbNMn98TxOs65krty0Lp0kNkZncRSSV7N1jct7AlMr9RhZiILMgurF-6ZMkqn8WayiJv17ReyXGUulkUSeO-XJSBpDnuRqF6T9MCiYNlpVQ9JxsS7d2uCvORU4642kEiV8oCWahO45Mcob1wmzjIOETs

this thread is totally TLDR if there's one thing symptomatic of late capitalism it's not $500 roy handmade jeans or $10 old navy slavemade jeans, it's people putting so much energy into critiquing each other's consumer choices

should read

totally tldr BUT if there's ...

there's nothing 'late capitalism' about that

who hangs a toothbrush that way? i have literally never seen a toothbrush hung by a hole in its handle. not ever. toothbrushes live in cups or else hang by the neck in things designed for that exact purpose.

like, should I keep using my water heater (bad example, since few think of this as a prestige item like the thread concentrates on) from the 1970s, or should I relegate it to the landfill and get a new efficient one that reduces my power bill and total water usage?

― valleys of your mind (mh), Monday, February 13, 2012 1:03 PM (7 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

probably wait until the present one craps out and then decide? unless, as the late great says, you've got good reason to think that replacing now will make a big difference. not buying shit unless you really have to is almost always a sensible move, especially if it means something else is going to the landfill.

like hybrid cars might be a great idea, but you're offsetting a lot of the potential good you might do if you keep buying a new one every four or five years.

maybe you need to upgrade your toothpaste?

i have purchased weleda salt toothpaste. it was bracingly nasty and i very much enjoyed dreading it. i do not, however, feel the need ever to purchase it again.

like hybrid cars might be a great idea, but you're offsetting a lot of the potential good you might do if you keep buying a new one every four or five years.

right, or if the other option is not driving

if there's one thing symptomatic of late capitalism it's not $500 roy handmade jeans or $10 old navy slavemade jeans, it's people putting so much energy into critiquing each other's consumer choices

call me a late capitalist, but i think that people have probably been criticizing one another's consumer choices since the invention of consumer choices. people like to critique one another.

i'm cheered by the present focus on the moral implications of consumption, though.

i really like the salt toothpaste! i think other toothpastes taste like nasty minty chemicals now. i like how the salt leaves my mouth feeling dry and clean, not like mouthwash.

i find it works best if you brush "dry" first and then rinse

It is anything like using plain baking soda? That's my favorite abrasive, teeth feel scarily cleaner afterward but I wonder, surely it's sanding off my enamel layer by layer?

right, or if the other option is not driving

as an ardent nondriver, i concur

A truly timeless design for a toothbrush would be the absence of thing and a mouth full of rotting teeth.

yeah its similar

you know consumer choice is not something that's been around forever

fwiw i'm not trying to criticize anybody for their consumer choices here, i was genuinely surprised by the horse-hair toothbrush because i'd never seen one before, least of all being marketed as a sort of design object. i find the fact of its existence very compelling, maybe even telling... though about what i'm not completely sure.

you know consumer choice is not something that's been around forever

well, yes and no. "consumer" as a construct is of fairly recent vintage, but choice goes back quite a ways. farther than competition between providers of services and goods, even.

tbf the reason you have never seen a toothbrush hung up by the hole like that is that long ago toothbrushes underwent a change in design and the hole was removed, therefore no one put hooks or nails in bathrooms for them anymore! this particular toothbrush is a vintage/throwback thingy so it has the hole

some googling leads me to an anecdote stating that they stopped putting holes in them after toothbrush production switched to all plastic